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ORIGINAL: Amaros

Allrighty then.

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ORIGINAL: Amaros

True, but there is a certain futile nobility in trying - call it my masochistic side.

From a more personal standpoint, a few bad apples spoil the barrel.

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ORIGINAL: Aswad

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Considering your approval of cannabilism I would have thought that calling you Hannibal would be the highest of compliments.

You clearly have not been reading my posts, or perhaps simply not grasping what I have been saying. What I have said is that both the desire and the act can occur in rational people of sound mind but with values that differ from those prevalent in the west. And I have said that it is none of our business if anyone does so. Comments on my own preferences are irrelevant to the arguments presented.

Regardless, I neither crave, nor value, your insincere compliment.

Health,
al-Aswad.

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ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

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Second, there is just no evidence of any culture valuing amputation for any reason other than as a punishment, if anybody has ever heard of any culture anywhere, engaging in amputation for cosmetic or spiritual reasons, I'd be happy to hear about it - piercings, tattoos, even torture, etc., Penitentes, and other forms of ritual self mutilation, sure, but not amputation, and people do some pretty strange things to achieve spiritual states.

greetings amaros,

as i've already posted, on bmezine (which is a body mod website), there are people living in the modern western world who do amputation (including of the genitals) along with other forms of extreme body modification.

i am most familiar with death and dying in buddhist practice, so here are some quotes:

The passage describes how the bodhisattva,
known in Japanese as Kiken, imbibed and painted his body
with fragrant oils, wrapped himself in pure garments, and then set
himself on fire. This act is praised as ‘‘the prime gift. Among the various
gifts, it is the most honorable, the supreme.’’5 The Buddha S ´ a¯-
kyamuni explains that if one seeking supreme enlightenment ‘‘can
burn a finger or even a toe as an offering to a Buddha stu¯ pa, he shall
exceed one who uses realm or walled city, wife or children, or even
all the lands, mountains, forests, rivers, ponds, and sundry precious
objects in the whole thousand-million world as offerings.’’6 This
story from the Lotus provided the most common scriptural foundation
for East Asian monks and nuns, from medieval to modern
times, who lit themselves on fire as Buddhist offerings.
- from "Passage to Fudaraku" by Moerman, in The Buddhist Dead, edited by Cuevas and Stone. Moerman's article is primarily concerned with the medieval Japanese monastic practice of weighing a boat with stones to drown oneself (known as the passage to Fudaraku), which was often a publicized and celebrated event, but also mentions other instances of ritual suicide as well as, as I quoted, instances where self-harm (often in the form of amputation or burning of fingers/limbs) was practiced but not suicide.

In textual accounts of monks that appeared in collections
of hagiographies under the rubric of self-immolation, we find a
range of acts such as allowing insects to feed on one’s blood, slicing
flesh from the body, and burning the fingers or arms. Not all of
these necessarily resulted in death.
- from "Fire and the Sword" by Benn, in The Buddhist Dead, edited by Cuevas and Stone. This article is primarily concerned with the politics of self-immolation in Buddhist China, but as the quote shows, also mentions instances of amputation, burning of fingers or limbs, and other forms self-harm that did not result in death.

on page six of "Self-Immolation in Buddhist China" by Jan Yun-Hua, she mentions that after the 10th century, some changes in textual emphasis led to a growing tendency to replace immolation of the entire body with the sacrifice of an arm, a few fingers, or just one finger. This article is located in History of Religions vol. 4 no. 2 (Winter 1965) pp. 243-268

if you would like more sources regarding suicide in buddhist practice or the tantric practice of visualizing cannibalism (which may or may not have been practiced in actuality in the past - this is debated among scholars - but is a really widespread practice among tibetan buddhists today - i am actually initiated into it), i'd be happy to help. if you or anyone would like to discuss more about buddhist death and dying (or buddhism in general) i'm always available by message on the other side.

respectfully,
a'ishah.

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Rational people do not choose to harm themselves or others

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ORIGINAL: Amaros

Self discovory through denial then - I'm forced to oversimplify in several places here, I'm writing a post for laymen, of which I am one, not a book for graduates, so not everything is going to be as nuanced as some might like.

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Certainly an interface, but there is every indication that as we tend to lump objects and their associated processes and behaviors into discrete symbols, sort of shorthand

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Conjecture - most genetic abnormalities that affect language also affect the hands and forearms, which appear to be directly connected to the speech centers of the brain which suggests they evolved in tandem.

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Beside the point, or rather reinforcing it, as this is an example of subjective consensus reality formation which is, by definition... subjective.

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I'm not much of a mathmatician.

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Sorry, you'll have to demonstrate this - as I said, it's never been demonstrated.

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It may well be a quantitative value rather than a qualitative value, a factor of neural density in the cerberal cortex, but at some point it quantitatively drops below the point where it is practically relevent. It is well known that your wolves have complex behavioral and social adaptations, but in qualitative terms, I don't think they have much need for higher level abstractions.

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unless they learn to talk though, we'll probobly never know.

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I don't know wheter to agree or disagree, I don't know what a "normal" state is, in an objective sense, it's a subjective term - typical perhaps,  but mental states are essentially adaptations, and how "normal" the state of mind is is pretty much a factor of the stressors or stimuli it is an adaptation to - it might be easier if you furnished and example.

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DRD4-R7, right, I'm not a geneticist either.

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Since you mention just about every major continent on the planet, I'm not sure just  how  "widespread" doesn't apply, athe point being that something occurred, and shit happened - I might be accused of being Eurocentric, I can cop to that. North America, Europe, Scandinavia, Africa and Asia are pretty much the regions where technological development occurred most rapidly and in the greatest variety - Africa led in the development of metallurgy, contrary to popular belief - it was a definite step away from grubbing tubers.

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As I mentioned, perhaps strongly enough, it is fairly well impossible to inniovate at all without rejecting cultural norms, to do anything outside a cultural norm is to violate it, and innovation by definition is change - once youve take that step, the entire thing becomes questionable, or vice versa.

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The Golden rule is explicitly the "greatest commandment" - and is almost a perfect way to paraphrase reciporical altruism.

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Yes, the gaming thing is troubling, particularly with the addition of the phenomona of a truely global mass media.

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It only works if you adhere strictly to the rules of competitive self interest, and keep things in flux - Soon as you start trying to change the rules, rational self interest, ala rand (everyones self interest is rational - to them) etc., it stratifies, sclerotofies and gradually turns into feudalism and stasis.

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Some people have more to lose than others, and a significant majority of people will simply value social stability and predictability over consensus formation through debate in good faith with respect to the empirical evidence, which often entails confusing contraditions, ethical dillemas, potential personal sacrifice, etc. i.e., rationalization of short term advantage vs. long term planning.

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what would Jesus think.