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RE: The 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/6/2008 8:01:46 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

quote:



quote:

ORIGINAL: Huntertn
however he never tried to take her to live outside the usa...and frankly..if Anyone is willing to talk..thats a big fat Bad sign...White slavery exists people..Believe it and not all of it comes to america...but some does leave here.....never to be seen again..




I say old chap do I understand that you are actively discouraging sub/slaves from considering moving to anywhere outside the USA? What about their moving to Canada, UK, NZ and Australia? Or do you believe that the USA is the oinly safde country on the planet?


IronBear   ..I may be mistake but what I believe Huntertn meant was if they start flaunting  their wealth as an atttractent that it is a warning sign  and he is saying as well it occurs in the US as well       ....to give an example of one.....  I recieved .... A very attractive chef from France contacted me on another site... he was around my age and had contacted me once before but I had turned him down, when he had expressed interest in me but the second time he contacted me .. he already had another girl from Canada agreeing to fly out to France he was willing  to pay for my flight to go along as well. as it would be safer for 2 girls to fly together..was willing to put me in touch with her so I would know it was not a hoax,,,,,he was not asking me to be his sub but was inviting me ..paying expenses ... going to take me and this other girl to the best clubs  and beaches on the French Riveria to meet the elite Doms from europe.

Now  as attractive as it sounds ...I had to ask myself why would someone foot all the expenses for a supposed vacation  in the French Riveria  to be introduced  to  the rich elite Doms of europe ,    there has to be something in it for him and that whoever accepts his offer is going to have to make repayment some how ...What really shocked me most was  that I had always assumed they went after young females ...and I think many older females would think the same way ..so may not become as suspicious but what raised me suspicions was the fact this second time he was not interested in me for himself and was willing to pay my expenses out there along with another female from this country .....and that caused me to see huge red flags....the first email contact,  he had made it sound like he had a personal interest in me.... if I did not have a job that did not allow for flexibility for vacations .... I could have potentially been caught up in his trap  then if I had agreed to fly over and meet him...which is a scary thought now  after the second email exchange ...in some ways I wish I had at least agreed to talked to that other girl that had agreed to go ..because I am now left wondering if she did go and if she ever returned, and if she did what happened  ......





_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 101
SOLUTION to 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/6/2008 8:53:52 AM   
SirBitterSweet


Posts: 81
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline 		I noticed a lot of replies to the post do not offer a solution, but more of an opinion that seems to judge the writer on what they should or should not be doing. Since the writer seems to be asking for a solution, I'm offering one.

My advantage here is that I am a former psych therapist and own my own business. Since the internet is anonymous and blind, I suggest a business approach to a personal solution. Here is how the dialogue might go.

Her: I barely know you, but you seem to know what is best for me. So, as my advisor and protector, please help me understand WHY I should I take this big risk?

(this strokes his male ego and creates an agreement that HE is responsible for YOU)

Him: First of all, I can prove who I am today. When you arrive, I can then show you all will be as I said it will be. At the same time, I am not 100% sure you are a perfectly safe risk either. So, it's fairly much a trust issue between the both of us, isn't it?

(The above may not be said so quickly, but sooner or later, any clever man will use the reverse psych response -- because a wealthy man is always a smart negotiator. Now it's time to use YOUR own take-away, so set him up with a tie-down as written below)

Her: So do I take it you believe I am safe risk, that I am sane?

Him: Yes, if you're not -- well then now would be a good time to tell me. ::laughs::

Her: Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt I am not a deranged woman. And speaking for all sane women, I think we both need a safety net in case things do not work out with us. Is that unreasonable to ask?

( the above was a second tie down and he must answer yes or he knows you will back out. As a busines man, he also knows that you are about to 'close' him on a deal. He will see if the deal is sweet enough and try to negotiate even if it is!)

Him: Very reasonable. What do you have in mind?

Her: One of the first things you told me is that you are a man of means. You must be very proud of your accomplishments and worked hard to get where you are. I've worked hard my entire life, too. And the money it takes to bring me to you, to care for me is pocket change to you, but a life savings to me. Not to disrespect money, but I could never afford the loss of time and money that this endeavor would take. Coming to live with you would not just deplete my savings, I also lose working time, contact with my friends and would have to resign from my job. Is that not tremendous risk for someone who does not have the means you do?

Him: It's common sense, yes. So what do you suggest?

(if he does not say anything LESS than what is written above, it's your cue to reject him. As a business man, he knows he lost the deal because he did not want it bad enough. Remember, he used money to lure you, now he has to demonstrate that he understands your risk. Fruthermore, as the Dom, he should be fall over backwards to assess and cover the risk)

Her: We negotiate out an agreement and put it in writing. Until we really know each other better, I think this is the sane thing to do. I suggest a three month contract. If all goes will in three months, then I guess I am yours forever.

Him: And what would you have me put in the contract?

(any sane man will not pay attention to the mine forever clause, because he knows the odds of forever are just a fantasy. Now if it does happen, well then it was fate or good fortune.)

Her: For starters, you buy my airfare roundtrip in my name. When we meet, you take me to lunch and we talk. If all goes well, I sign the three month agreement. You contact my debtors and pay in advance the next three months of whatever I must pay to survive if I were still back in the states (which may be rent, car payments, insurance and so forth) You also give me sufficient funds in the form of cash to open a small savings account. This sum is small but enough for me exit the country and have funds to look for new work and buy food and necessities should things go horribly wrong. I won't touch these funds unless we are both not happy and we decide it is best I return back to where I lived before I met you.

Him; You're asking a lot of me.

Her: You're asking me to leave my life as I always known it. That I should risk toppling my enire apple cart over someone I've talked to overseas for just a few months. I really want our story to have a happy ending AND at the same time, I am not going to toss my common sense out the window so readily because you make my heart pound with desire. The fact is is that if I come to be with you under your original suggested terms, you lose money that you would have easily blown at the casino on a Tuesday night. Whereas I'm pushing my limites to bankruptcy. So, who is taking the bigger risk here? Who is supposed to be the protector and looking out for what is best for his slave or submissive?

(THIS WILL BUST THE FAKES HANDS DOWN. Just remember than an expensive call girl over one month would put the same financial burden on this guy. Don't think for a mintue he has not tried a high class call girl before. They all do.)

If any WEALTHY man cannot work with this reasoning, he's lying or he's a cheapo. Dump him and forget him.

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: SOLUTION to 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/6/2008 11:31:16 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirBitterSweet

I noticed a lot of replies to the post do not offer a solution, but more of an opinion that seems to judge the writer on what they should or should not be doing. Since the writer seems to be asking for a solution, I'm offering one.


You're new around these parts, so it's understandable that you might think that.  But the reality is no, that's not what was being asked.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to SirBitterSweet)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: SOLUTION to 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/6/2008 11:50:38 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		so true, Cali

(although, that was a rather good post he did....)


_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: SOLUTION to 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/6/2008 11:52:46 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Agreed, OhInsaneOne (congrats!).

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: SOLUTION to 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/6/2008 11:54:06 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		thankee :)  (as if it's a newsflash....LOL)

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: The 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/6/2008 12:18:19 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		I once found it necessarry to turn down a marriage propaosal from a millionare Dom. The only time He mentioned His actual assets, was in the proposal itself, after saying, 'A girl has the right to know certain things when considering a proposal, so you should know...'
As others have said here, the truly wealthy seldom talk about money. Nothing is more boring or less important than money, when you have a sufficency of it. It only becomes important to those without it.
So, if they are focused right off on telling you their worth, (in fiscal terms), I am afraid I doubt their word.
I have known some people, even who were only upper middle class, who did not always have good 'world sense' about what it is like to be poor. They might need to be told facets they would not have thought of - 'how is your girl to get there? what will she do about x,y,z?' ect - but once pointed out to them, they did not baulk about it, generally.
I've seen many lifestyle people talking about making a 'safety net fund' for a submissive, others talk about at least providing a way to insist that she make her own.
One thing i often notice about such things is the big 'red flag' to me - people can disagree, but people who disagree usually have a lot to say about that disagreement. A long 'I don't want her to have an out' type conversation - you might disagree with them, but at least it makes me think they are a real person who has thought this out. a blank stare kind of 'what? what are you talking about?' feels more to me like, 'why are you throwing all these problems in my little 'i won the lottery and i'm gonna buy me a slave' fantasy? My fantasy slave girl doesn't want anything, geez! I'm telling MOM on you!'

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: SOLUTION to 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/6/2008 12:25:39 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		I enjoyed your post SirBitterSweet.

_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to SirBitterSweet)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: The 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/6/2008 5:26:51 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maya2001

quote:

quote:



quote:

ORIGINAL: Huntertn
however he never tried to take her to live outside the usa...and frankly..if Anyone is willing to talk..thats a big fat Bad sign...White slavery exists people..Believe it and not all of it comes to america...but some does leave here.....never to be seen again..




I say old chap do I understand that you are actively discouraging sub/slaves from considering moving to anywhere outside the USA? What about their moving to Canada, UK, NZ and Australia? Or do you believe that the USA is the oinly safde country on the planet?


IronBear   ..I may be mistake but what I believe Huntertn meant was if they start flaunting  their wealth as an atttractent that it is a warning sign  and he is saying as well it occurs in the US as well       ....to give an example of one.....  I recieved .... A very attractive chef from France contacted me on another site... he was around my age and had contacted me once before but I had turned him down, when he had expressed interest in me but the second time he contacted me .. he already had another girl from Canada agreeing to fly out to France he was willing  to pay for my flight to go along as well. as it would be safer for 2 girls to fly together..was willing to put me in touch with her so I would know it was not a hoax,,,,,he was not asking me to be his sub but was inviting me ..paying expenses ... going to take me and this other girl to the best clubs  and beaches on the French Riveria to meet the elite Doms from europe.

Now  as attractive as it sounds ...I had to ask myself why would someone foot all the expenses for a supposed vacation  in the French Riveria  to be introduced  to  the rich elite Doms of europe ,    there has to be something in it for him and that whoever accepts his offer is going to have to make repayment some how ...What really shocked me most was  that I had always assumed they went after young females ...and I think many older females would think the same way ..so may not become as suspicious but what raised me suspicions was the fact this second time he was not interested in me for himself and was willing to pay my expenses out there along with another female from this country .....and that caused me to see huge red flags....the first email contact,  he had made it sound like he had a personal interest in me.... if I did not have a job that did not allow for flexibility for vacations .... I could have potentially been caught up in his trap  then if I had agreed to fly over and meet him...which is a scary thought now  after the second email exchange ...in some ways I wish I had at least agreed to talked to that other girl that had agreed to go ..because I am now left wondering if she did go and if she ever returned, and if she did what happened  ......






Greetings Maya. Aye, I think you are probably correct but we can only respond to what someone has posted can't we? I see it as a folly to respond to what I think someone may mean unless I know that person very well indeed. hence I asked the question of Huntern. I know full well from intel reports I see regularly of the many problems which arise with the people trade in many places including Europe, Middle east and Asia. It is a major worry and for that reason, were I to desire to have a girl move here I would want to meet her on her home turf and ensure that she had a safety net I ncluding consular and legals back up if I flew her to Australia with a long term iron clad contratc including return ticketing. Las I'm a pedantic old fart who likes things cut and dried in black and white in my life, I deal with and have dealt with the grey areas, and shadows most of my liufe and know full well the follies, pit falls and elusive ways people can be trapped.

IB
(The incorrigible, irrepressible and irreverent Bear)

< Message edited by IronBear -- 7/6/2008 5:27:19 PM >

(in reply to Maya2001)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: SOLUTION to 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/8/2008 8:05:09 AM   
SirBitterSweet


Posts: 81
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick


You're new around these parts, so it's understandable that you might think that.  But the reality is no, that's not what was being asked.

Cali



Glad to know that someone on this site has psychic abilities and can read the mind of member just from a post that did NOT ask any specific questions and mind you, closed with a request for assistance (she asked, 'Any comments?')

First of all, it does not matter if I am new or not, as that I am not new to life ::laughs:: and last I checked, this is not a club that assigns rank or file. Does it matter I have been a member of this site for 4 years? Probably not.

Two, I prefaced my reply with 'it seems' --- which last I checked with my English professor in college, implies that my response is predicated on my interpretation of her own subtle inferences -- which she left open to reader in her very first post.

Third, because she did not ask a specific question, I offered a response that differed from others I read. Yes, I am guilty of NOT reading every last reply in the thread.. but nonetheless, she seemed to have dropped out of the thread. Now why is that??

Until she comes back and says anything to the contraty, well it's all guesswork .. and sorry if my response hurt your ego, that was not my intention.

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: SOLUTION to 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/8/2008 8:12:23 AM   
wandersalone


Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline 		Off topic for a sec....BitterSweet, I had asked you a question in one of the other threads which likely was missed by you so I am posting the link here

Any references would be welcomed


_____________________________

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King
Godmother of the subbie mafia
My all time favourite threads
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2002501
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=790885

(in reply to SirBitterSweet)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: SOLUTION to 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/8/2008 8:13:41 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Dude.  It's not psychic abilities.  It's the ability to predict the future based on the past.  She was trying to help you.

At least three women complimented you on your post... and you responded with, um, tremendous shmuckosity.  There are posters on these boards who have more than a million dollars in the bank, and -- oddly enough -- they are capable of being not-rude.  You might want to try that sometime, yourself.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to SirBitterSweet)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: The 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/8/2008 1:13:28 PM   
masterforRT


Posts: 176
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline 		I think this is a good thread. As far as 'missing the point', I think that most everyone here has been exactly ON point!

People should stay in their own countries-that way they know what rights they have ands also know that in most cases a safety net exists to help and protect them.

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: SOLUTION to 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/8/2008 2:17:28 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		SBS:  Don't get me wrong, you did give a very good post.  However, this particular OP later said it wasn't about her and she didn't want advice for herself (or something like that).  Some people have a certain history of that sort of thing. 

I'm sorry that you seem to have found offense with my comment. That was not my intent.  Some of us try to help someone over and over and over until we finally figure out that they don't really want help or advice.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to SirBitterSweet)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: SOLUTION to 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/8/2008 2:48:21 PM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		fast reply...
I don't choose or not choose someone because of their bank account.  All of the doms I've been with have been cheap bastards, literally, except for one.   It's much more enjoyable with that one.  I think just because I have more respect for him on all kinds of levels...money is just one aspect of that respect.  I find nothing dominant or sexy when someone informs me that it's my turn to pay for the room even though I can afford it.  I'd prefer to pay every now and then just because it's the nice thing to do and not because I'm being nickel and dimed.

_____________________________



(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: The 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/8/2008 4:22:47 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Negotiation is the key.
When I brought Helga into the house we negotiated.
She takes care of the house and forwards my mail when I'm out of town.
For this she gets room, board, and a modest stipend.  If she wants more money, she can get a job.

This was the bottom line on the financial side of the agreement.  Oh, there was more negotiated but that had nothing to do with the financial arrangments.

Stefan

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: SOLUTION to 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/10/2008 7:01:40 PM   
SirBitterSweet


Posts: 81
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline 		RedMagic

I have no clue what you are talking about. Anyone who solicits an opinion by calling me a 'label' is really seeking to leverage their insecurities. My post was a scenario that provided an alternative dialogue based on my interpretation of the author's creative post. Until the author responds, I say their intentions are open to speculation by anyone. Another weird point you made... the compliments I received have nothing to do with my response to the one person who broke ranks from polite ettiquette. Finally, speaking of using labels while trying to mask smug arrogance when advising others, I want to remind you that 'schmuckosity' is not a real word and the only justification I can find for your laziness to crack open your table top thesaurus to seek a good insulting adjective -- must be that your current dose of meds are way stronger than you realize. Just remember it's not polite to trip out on your meds and not share with everyone else....

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: SOLUTION to 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/10/2008 7:14:08 PM   
SirBitterSweet


Posts: 81
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline 		CalifChick

It's too late to back paddle.

If you have to pull rank when trying to help someone, the advice credibility is drowned by the writer's personal arrogance. It should not matter where I stand next to you when you offer a suggestion, the suggestion should be naked and without a claim to rank or assumption of who or what I am. THIS IS OBVIOUS COMMON SENSE.

Second, if you want to pull rank, cite your pysch degree credentials, then I will be more impressed, but it doesn't change the fact your delivery was poor ettiquette.

Finally, if you go back and read the very original post, there is NO clear question from the author, just an example of dialgue. The only request is for 'comments.' I simply commented on an alternative response to a dialogue she posted. Think of it as an art gallery. She hung a poem on the wall and said, any comments? Hence, all comments are welcome.  I call that a smart post, as that she welcomed ANY kind of response.

I really don't want to debate this any more, I'm tired of people who stand by their denial of the obvious.

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: SOLUTION to 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/10/2008 7:27:04 PM   
SirBitterSweet


Posts: 81
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline 		Wandersalone

Awsome that you are an active licensed pro still active in your field! And sorry that I missed your post. I admit to being a little impatient with page reloads and web site stalls that are common on CM.

There is absolutely no way I could hope to remember my sources. However,  I do recall that in 2001 and 2004, I chanced upon several reviews written by female psychiatrists. These professionals went under-cover and surfed various internet communities. They gave their assessment on the risks of being on the internet and seeking romance. I recall being VERY depressed about what I read, but also relieved, because some (not all) of their explanations paralleled the conclusions I reached in speculation.

I would be willing to bet if you used Google, you would find about 30 books written on the subject and probably stumble upon the female doctors I am loosely referencing.

Finally, as an ex-therapist, I will admit I trust female therapist objectivity over men. 

(in reply to wandersalone)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: The 'Problem' of the Wealthy Dom - 7/10/2008 7:56:47 PM   
MisterBeast


Posts: 142
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline 		See now if he was gonna hook you up with a open ended plane ticket and a bank account in your name only incase you ever needed to get out. That might change things.

But you know my thoughts are, if some one is really in it for you, then they ought to have every ability to walk out the door, the freer they are to leave, the more you know they care about you when they stay. But hey thats just my thoughts on it.


_____________________________

"I’ve seen what is coming, I put myself inside his head, I’ve become the thing we fear the most, I’ve become capable of becoming the horror that we know we can become only in our heart of darkness, my gift my curse."

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 120
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