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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 7/31/2008 7:33:38 PM

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You seem to keep bringing up "I just need to react to a man's lead to be a slave"

I understand the concept better than you think I do.

It simply perpelxes me when someone basically just keeps repeating "All I have to do is show up at the right party, and everything will be perfect."

I'd probably understand a bit better if you explained what a "man" was more clearly.

And so might quite a few others.

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 7/31/2008 7:51:07 PM

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Umm no Leatherist, i think you are mistaken my words for someone elses. I never stated what you have said i have. You need to learn how to correctly utilize quotes. When you use quotes you imply i actually said it, and well i didn't so i would appreciate it if you didn't try and say YOUR words are mine. My words don't remotely state what you have in quotes. Perhaps you need to go back and read it again. I am sure you understand the concept you have quoted, but its not the concept i was speaking about and you have shown you really don't know what i am speaking about, which is fine.

grins, and if i have to explain to you what a Man is, Leatherist, you are too lost for me to ever explain it so you could understand it. I do find it interesting you are speaking for others, mmmmmm having lil conversations off the board about my post and you were elected to be the spokesperson?

And yeah Leatherist, that reaction to the right catalyst (the Man) makes his mastery and enslavement of her a actuality wherein she isn't guided by her self-determination but instead is guided by his mastery and enslavement of her tends to create this concept called slavery. Othewise you have two people caught in a concept of the woman being self-determining in her slavery instead of being held in slavery by the Man. Some people do this, and if it works for them great, i personally don't call it slavery. Novel concept a woman who is a slave is goverened by the Man because he has mastered and enslaved her - i should have considered such..

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 7/31/2008 7:53:13 PM >

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 7/31/2008 7:52:39 PM

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I see, the esoteric mystery.

And all from a science fiction series,and a lifestyle disowned by the author...hmmmmm.......

What's really funny is that lange repeatedly refers to training and refinement as increasing the value of a slave-even prior to them being owned. There were entire industries and complexes devoted to it.

And slavers did it to increase thier take and reputation. I pay attention to details like that-even if you choose to conveniently ignore them.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 7/31/2008 8:06:28 PM >

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 7/31/2008 8:28:36 PM

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chuckles, Leatherist How about this -- you tell me what reaction you are trying to get from me in your continued bringing up of your perception of Gor, and i will take it under advisement. Seriously Leatherist, your comments don't shock me, they don't upset me, Goreans are use to encountering ignorance about understanding of Goreans. if you want to know what your continual bringing it up does, pretty much perplexity. Are you trying to "out" me lol? Umm Leatherist, most people who have ever ventured into the Gorean section have seen me posting in there, anyone who reads my profile knows of my interest in Gorean. Are you wanting everyone to now jump on what i have said with their barefeet an overhanging toenails because of Gorean and i am supposed to now be run out of "town" and what stoned and "lips twitch in amusement" perhaps tarred and feathered because of your presumption of roleplaying in the identification of a person being Gorean? However, i am not about to engage in a book report of the fiction in the Gorean books.

I guess we will have to see what people do.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 7/31/2008 8:29:49 PM >

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 7/31/2008 8:39:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

chuckles, Leatherist How about this -- you tell me what reaction you are trying to get from me in your continued bringing up of your perception of Gor, and i will take it under advisement. Seriously Leatherist, your comments don't shock me, they don't upset me, Goreans are use to encountering ignorance about understanding of Goreans. if you want to know what your continual bringing it up does, pretty much perplexity. Are you trying to "out" me lol? Umm Leatherist, most people who have ever ventured into the Gorean section have seen me posting in there, anyone who reads my profile knows of my interest in Gorean. Are you wanting everyone to now jump on what i have said with their barefeet an overhanging toenails because of Gorean and i am supposed to now be run out of "town" and what stoned and "lips twitch in amusement" perhaps tarred and feathered because of your presumption of roleplaying in the identification of a person being Gorean? However, i am not about to engage in a book report of the fiction in the Gorean books.

I guess we will have to see what people do.

angel

I actually read the first book before I was even legal. Mom tossed "Tarnsman of Gor" in the trash can after she broke up with one of her lovers after the divorce..I was fascinated by it.

It was what initially sparked my interest in D/s. What REALLY got to me was the slave girl who helped Tarl on his spying mission. She was capable, creative, intelligent, strong......the perfect side kick. And totally under his control.

Then I looked around at whiney bitchy insecure vanilla women-who played these incessant "pussy power" trips and wondered-"Why can"t more girls be like her?"

The only reason I do NOT identify as gorean, are the absurdly overblown and insecure egos I see displayed by so many in it. I DO know what it is about, and it is NOT them.

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 7/31/2008 8:55:14 PM

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Again, you keep bringing up Gor why? It has nothing to do with the question you posed at the start of the thread which i have responded too. If you would rather a Gorean NOT post on this thread, please just say so lol no need to try and organize a pose to run me out, i thought it was a topic about slavery and understandings of same (which i have offline) not specific concepts and only certain identifications or types of same. I have no hard feelings if you would rather not have someone who identifies as Gorean as part of the discussion, there are times i feel the same about discussions in the Gorean forum. You keep defending your understanding of Gor to me, again, why? Leatherist, i responded to the topic with MY perception of slavery, i am honestly not sure why you are suddenly posting like you are thinking i care about you and your understanding of Gor, i don't -- sorry.

I gave my response to the question posed, it honestly had nothing to do with Gorean, why you keep focusing on it i don't know.

angel

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 7/31/2008 10:49:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Again, you keep bringing up Gor why? It has nothing to do with the question you posed at the start of the thread which i have responded too. If you would rather a Gorean NOT post on this thread, please just say so lol no need to try and organize a pose to run me out, i thought it was a topic about slavery and understandings of same (which i have offline) not specific concepts and only certain identifications or types of same. I have no hard feelings if you would rather not have someone who identifies as Gorean as part of the discussion, there are times i feel the same about discussions in the Gorean forum. You keep defending your understanding of Gor to me, again, why? Leatherist, i responded to the topic with MY perception of slavery, i am honestly not sure why you are suddenly posting like you are thinking i care about you and your understanding of Gor, i don't -- sorry.

I gave my response to the question posed, it honestly had nothing to do with Gorean, why you keep focusing on it i don't know.

angel

Don't worry about it Angel. The stuff in the books just popped into my mind when you came in.

Like I said, I always found the basic constructs Lange used to be fascinating. Thanks for your contribution, even if I don't totally "get it".

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 7/31/2008 10:56:53 PM

Hisgirl2playwith

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After reading this thread i can't resist putting my 2 cents in. i'm sitting here just shaking my head because the way semantics are argued here remind me of my son and his friend. They are 8 years old and could without a doubt hold their own when it comes to arguing semantics. Is it a rug or a carpet? Is the whole system a computer or is it just the tower? Is dark blue "real" blue or is light blue "real" blue? It drives me nuts lol.

By very basic definition, a slave gives up ALL rights to EVERYTHING, including the right to say no to anything. A slave serves her Master totally, completely and unconditionally without hesitation. If the Master chooses to allow His slave certain things, or special considerations, that is His decision. Anything that a slave is given or allowed is a privilege, not a right. Even stating a preference, desire, or wish is a privelege to a slave, not a right. The Master decides when it is appropriate for that to happen, not the slave.

To me, a slave is not just a mentality or state of being, it is both. These arguments over titles leaves me chuckling. i've heard so many times someone saying they're not a Master without a slave to own, but they are Dominant. However, would You still be Dominant if You had nothing to Dominate? Being submissive implies you have something you submit to. Is a submissive no longer submissive because she doesn't have a Dominant?
If You're going to reject the terms slave and Master simply because they're missing their counterparts, then you have to reject submissive and Dominant on the same grounds. It only makes sense that if you're going to say a Master isn't a Master without a slave to own, then a Dominant can't be that without having a submissive to Dominate.

TPE discussions get the same chuckle out of me. There should not be anyone here that could honestly argue the fact that TOTAL = 100%. It's not a 1/3 Power Exchange, not 3/4 Power Exchange, not 99.9 % Power Exchange...........it's Total Power Exchange. That means EVERYTHING, no exceptions.

i personally think people think too much. Stop trying to be something you're not, and be comfortable with what you ARE. Take an honest look at the definitions of these terms, i do believe official definitions were posted earlier in this thread. If you are not cut out to fit the definition of a slave that is perfectly fine, there is nothing wrong with that. However, are you really being the best sub you can be by trying so hard to change the defininition of slave just so you can wear the title? Not everyone is cut out to give up total 100% control, choice and rights to another, but you know what? THAT'S OK. Not every Dominant type wants the higher responsibility of being given 100% control, choice and right, but you know what? THAT'S OK. Stop trying to redefine things if the definition doesn't fit comfortably and just relax and be who and what you are. No more, no less.

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 7/31/2008 10:59:19 PM

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We have a winner.

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 7/31/2008 11:12:29 PM

Hisgirl2playwith

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Black and white is easy to see for those that are color blind. Has everyone else gotten so distracted by colors that lose appreciation for the basics?

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 7/31/2008 11:35:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisgirl2playwith

Black and white is easy to see for those that are color blind. Has everyone else gotten so distracted by colors that lose appreciation for the basics?

It's about a percieved heirarchal status.

Everyone wants to be the king, and no one wants to be a peasant-sort of like the sca.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 7/31/2008 11:36:19 PM >

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 8/1/2008 12:21:05 AM

Hisgirl2playwith

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Thing thing that i don't think a lot of people don't take the time to realize is that the higher you go, the farther you have to fall, and the more painful the sudden stop at the bottom will be. So i actually prefer the peasant role.......and besides, i'm afraid of heaights lol

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 8/1/2008 12:32:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisgirl2playwith

Thing thing that i don't think a lot of people don't take the time to realize is that the higher you go, the farther you have to fall, and the more painful the sudden stop at the bottom will be. So i actually prefer the peasant role.......and besides, i'm afraid of heaights lol

I find it very weird that the "100% submissive" has been glorified to the extent that it has.

While I can understand some Doms having an appreciation for that sort of coorperation, it still requires quite a bit of maintanence.

More and more, I think it really is just about the blow jobs-and never having to hear....

"Not tonight dear-I have a headache."

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 8/1/2008 12:43:38 AM

Hisgirl2playwith

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i tend to agree. When i first started exploring BDSM, i was with a "Master" briefly until i realized all He was interested in was what i could do to make Him feel good and just say "yes Master" without doing anything to help me understand what submission is really all about. He wasn't really interested in me as a person. It didn't take me too long to realize that while He may be Dominant, a Master He was not.

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 8/1/2008 1:52:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

And yeah Leatherist, that reaction to the right catalyst (the Man) makes his mastery and enslavement of her a actuality wherein she isn't guided by her self-determination but instead is guided by his mastery and enslavement of her tends to create this concept called slavery.

dear barelynangel
I am slave……I’ve been wooed by many Masters (how many here my modesty forbids I say *smiles*)….also whore, concubine, mother, Goddess, protector, girl-child, cleaner, cunt, friend, soul-mate, slave, wife, writer, dakini, dharma, indigo, tantra, cabala, chakra….but actually just words…….until the right Master. Indigowolf is the one that understood those words I had on my profile. They are not skills I bring to the table for anyone/everyone…….how could they be unless it was a Master who potentiated them, who, as you say guides me, who turns me ‘on’? The original question of the thread well it’s settled and i only now see the inherent self-defeating nature of it. If a slave brings something then it is labelled ‘dominant submissive’ eh? If a slave brings learned behaviours from another let’s say…these won’t be right for a new Master. Thus for a slave the concept ‘years in the lifestyle’ might be held against her, might need to be schooled out of her I bring potential, I bring nothing, I bring something or I bring everything or I bring the absolute….it entirely depends upon what a Master sees and what a Master determines it shalt be. And therefore so be it. (Substitute him for her here it’s not a gender statement).

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 8/1/2008 5:08:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

More and more, I think it really is just about the blow jobs-and never having to hear....

"Not tonight dear-I have a headache."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisgirl2playwith

... all He was interested in was what i could do to make Him feel good and just say "yes Master" without doing anything to help me understand what submission is really all about. He wasn't really interested in me as a person. It didn't take me too long to realize that while He may be Dominant, a Master He was not.

lol... Well, duh. But that has nothing to do with D/s or being either a dominant or master... that's just men in general.

There's a reason a lot of people find this humorous...

A WOMAN'S POEM
Before I lay me down to sleep,
I pray for a man, who's not a creep,
One who's handsome, smart and strong.
One who loves to listen long,
One who thinks before he speaks,
One who'll call, not wait for weeks.
I pray he's gainfully employed,
When I spend his cash, won't be annoyed.
Pulls out my chair and opens my door.
Massages my back and begs to do more.
Oh! Send me a man who'll make love to my mind,
Knows what to answer to 'how big is my behind?'
I pray that this man will love me to no end,
And always be my very best friend.

A MAN'S POEM
I pray for a deaf-mute gymnast nymphomaniac with
Huge boobs who owns
a bar on a golf course,
And loves to send me fishing and drinking. This
Doesn't rhyme and I don't give a shit.
The End

People recognize the truth in it.

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 8/1/2008 6:46:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisgirl2playwith

To me, a slave is not just a mentality or state of being, it is both. These arguments over titles leaves me chuckling. i've heard so many times someone saying they're not a Master without a slave to own, but they are Dominant. However, would You still be Dominant if You had nothing to Dominate? Being submissive implies you have something you submit to. Is a submissive no longer submissive because she doesn't have a Dominant?
If You're going to reject the terms slave and Master simply because they're missing their counterparts, then you have to reject submissive and Dominant on the same grounds. It only makes sense that if you're going to say a Master isn't a Master without a slave to own, then a Dominant can't be that without having a submissive to Dominate.

You can have a dominant or submissive personality.. it does not have to be in relationship to anyone. Both can be good or bad based on how that personality helps or hinders you with interactions in the world with other people.

Are these personalities innate or trained? I say "yes" to both factors but I lean more toward the innate because I was raised to be submissive but darling that just isn't me. I'm sure, however, it does affect how I use my personality in interactions with others and perhaps also helped me get more empathy for the others.

But I would never claim I am "Mistress" of anyone or anything I haven't earned that title with. To me, and me alone, claiming such titles is arrogant and unrealistic.

If you or anyone else wishes to claim a title, unless you can demonstrate to me that you have earned that, don't expect me to use it anymore than I expect you to call me "Professor" or "Doctor" or anything else which frankly has nothing to do with our relationship until you sign up for my classes and thus entered into that relationship where those titles are appropriate.

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 8/1/2008 6:47:19 AM

poisonedprogress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires
What the OP and RS are saying is by that definition then, they are NOT slaves.

And I'm saying by that definition there are no slaves at all in D/M/s... unless something illegal is going on. Slavery, as found in wikipedia and the dictionary, is ruled out entirely by consent.

quote:

You are trying to view what they are saying by using D/s and vanilla world perspectives. In the D/s world as well as the vanilla world, the person who enters into bondage has the final say as if they want to leave or not. They have the final "veto" or can make the decision to leave or stay. In the M/s world that slave would make the decision to enter into that bondage and would then have given up all those rights. Not thru outside influences or vanilla laws... but from what they feel that comes from within. That is what makes them a slave. C-D

So anyone who gives up (or wishes to give up) those rights, but maintains certain limits as a condition of giving up those rights, is wrong to call themselves a slave? I don't think so. You might. I don't see how anybody is wrong either way.

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 8/1/2008 6:50:45 AM

poisonedprogress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
You can have a dominant or submissive personality.. it does not have to be in relationship to anyone. Both can be good or bad based on how that personality helps or hinders you with interactions in the world with other people.

But I would never claim I am "Mistress" of anyone or anything I haven't earned that title with. To me, and me alone, claiming such titles is arrogant and unrealistic.

If you or anyone else wishes to claim a title, unless you can demonstrate to me that you have earned that, don't expect me to use it anymore than I expect you to call me "Professor" or "Doctor" or anything else which frankly has nothing to do with our relationship until you sign up for my classes and thus entered into that relationship where those titles are appropriate.

Such titles are officially sanctioned or licensed. As far as I know there is no such official sanctioning/licensing of slaves and masters. Is there?

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RE: So, you are a "slave" - 8/1/2008 6:59:18 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisgirl2playwith

To me, a slave is not just a mentality or state of being, it is both. These arguments over titles leaves me chuckling. i've heard so many times someone saying they're not a Master without a slave to own, but they are Dominant. However, would You still be Dominant if You had nothing to Dominate? Being submissive implies you have something you submit to. Is a submissive no longer submissive because she doesn't have a Dominant?
If You're going to reject the terms slave and Master simply because they're missing their counterparts, then you have to reject submissive and Dominant on the same grounds. It only makes sense that if you're going to say a Master isn't a Master without a slave to own, then a Dominant can't be that without having a submissive to Dominate.

I find that daily life, management of the people that I direct in my everyday occupation, direction of my clients, and leadership roles in various aspects of my day to day life give me plenty to dominate. I'm a 'take charge' kind of person -- a little more laid back than some, and pushier than others, but still, I definitely line up in the 'take responsibility' line. I completely reject the idea that one has to reject "submissive" and "dominant" when rejecting titles of association. Submissive and dominant are effective adjectives for day-to-day responses to life.

Calla Firestorm

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(in reply to Hisgirl2playwith)

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