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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:03:01 AM

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quote:

gypsy and samba not twue

What's agressive about walking out on a situation that's gotten out of control?

You've substantially revised you're story of what happened in the posts that you made after the original one. I've been responding to your original post. Would I have the same reaction to a highly contrlled reminder-tap on the face? Probably not.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:04:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

Hi darling so sweet of you to say so and i love Your quote of letting the hair color being a warning !! too perfectly yummy kisses ~t~

Thank you, pretty lady. ~ kisses back ~

DRH

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:07:17 AM

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rebuke! that sounds to me like the SD I know:)

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:10:35 AM

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chastisement?

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:13:23 AM

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peeks in...kinda like face slapping if it is in the right context. If Master strolled in through the door and instead of kissing me, slapped me - due to a bad day - i would not be so happy..lol..

Ok..joke aside - slapping someone in desperation/anger/=no good=lose of control. i would have a very hard time trusting my One after that. Years ago i was in a very abusive relatonship, and the fear i was feeling all the time i do not wish upon anyone..tip toeing around - afraid to breathe or speak, not knowing what would trigger his anger this time..if this would be brought into my D/s relationship, it would be totally wrong for me - because my Master is One i trust unconditionally. To care for me, lift me when i fall, discipline me when i mess up - but also know when to administer what.
Hell, i might not always agree with His decisions - laughs - or even be too thrilled about them - but i know He decides for me because it is what i want/need/crave...so i accept it....and i love the strict control...God knows i need it...*L*...my lip has gotten me into trouble more than once..sighs...it is that good ol' "mouth engages before brain" thing. Yes - i am blonde...laughs - and sometimes that is not just a haircolor...hehe

< Message edited by badlilthang -- 8/3/2008 8:16:29 AM >

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:16:41 AM

opposingtwilight

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

Maybe we doms should get this included in the dom manual - at a suitable point, reasonably early in the relationship, slap sub to assess her subliness. Instant obedience, shocked breakdown into tears - fine; test passed. A slap back - failure and withdrawal of her sub card.

This comment is such a red flag for me and I don't know how serious you were when you said it or if you even realize how it really sounds so I'll try to explain why it stirs such a reaction within me and we'll see what you think of it then.

Serial abusers often have a series of tests they use when selecting a potential partner. Generally abuse doesn't happen at all once; it'll start slow and small with something like a face slap delivered in anger when he or she has said something "out of line" or commited some other tiny infraction. His or her reaction to that test determines whether or not he or she has a relationship with the abuser or gets relegated to the 'just friends' category.

Most of the time neither the abuser nor the victim realizes they're engaging in this behaviour. Its early on; it doesn't seem like a big deal. Its only when the victim ends up in the hospital with broken bones or finally snaps and kills the abuser outright that anyone goes ... Oh, hey it all started with that day when I said something cheeky and stepped out of line.

Its been said so often as to become a cliche: there is a fine line between abuse and BDSM ... Sometimes though, I think its true. While some submissives may respond well to things like face slapping or quick smacks in public, for others its traumatizing and can be abusive. That doesn't make them any less submissive. It just makes them different.

As for slapping back; I'm not sure how I feel about that. I tend to feel that reacting to violence with violence is just flat out wrong. However, I once had that exact same reaction when someone slapped me in the face several years ago. Was I a failure as a submissive for having an instinctive reaction to lash out when subjected to sudden and shocking pain? Hmm. I don't know. Maybe. Or was he a failure as a dominant for not being responsible enough to ensure that understanding (ie discipline) came along with the pain?

Food for thought.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:18:23 AM

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OT.. the manual comment was a joke....

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:19:14 AM

opposingtwilight

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Not a very funny one?

Much truth is said in jest. Lord, I'm full of cliches this morning.

-sigh-

Well, ignore my post then.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:21:22 AM

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quote:

Sorry boi - I normally post in P&RS and that was what we call a joke (they're all over the place there). Forgot things are more serious here. My error.

His jokes arent always the best (love ya, Sd..but it's true./..LOL)

But your post was a good one :)

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:23:43 AM

opposingtwilight

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Thanks. I prolly should have read more of the thread but that line struck me like ... Well, like a slap in the face.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:23:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

Maybe we doms should get this included in the dom manual - at a suitable point, reasonably early in the relationship, slap sub to assess her subliness. Instant obedience, shocked breakdown into tears - fine; test passed. A slap back - failure and withdrawal of her sub card.

quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilightMost of the time neither the abuser nor the victim realizes they're engaging in this behaviour. Its early on; it doesn't seem like a big deal. Its only when the victim ends up in the hospital with broken bones or finally snaps and kills the abuser outright that anyone goes ... Oh, hey it all started with that day when I said something cheeky and stepped out of line.

Its been said so often as to become a cliche: there is a fine line between abuse and BDSM ... Sometimes though, I think its true. While some submissives may respond well to things like face slapping or quick smacks in public, for others its traumatizing and can be abusive. That doesn't make them any less submissive. It just makes them different.

excellent post, twilight - and i agree pretty much with all of it. Submissives are as different as "ordinary" people - one girls nightmare might be another ones heaven...s...thing is to find the match...s...Being hit in anger is wrong - no matter why..

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:25:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

... any act of physical violence that is done to me

What I think I'm trying to say DRH is that this is quite different (in context) from "physical violence", intended or actual; yet clearly the reaction, from many, is aggression which is not generally a submissive characteristic.

So I'm thinking out loud here - is a face slap equated for most people with physical violence in a way that a bottom slap isn't? Is it something so unacceptably taboo to most people that it should be unthinkable to any reasonable dom because, however it's administered, it's seen as a voilent attack?

And this I still can't quite get - rape is a pretty firm and deeply personal taboo. People who go around raping girls get put in prison. Yet the rape fantasy is hugely common and can often form part of play.

<mumbles about remaining somewhat confused; more aware after reading comments - thank you people - but still a touch confused>

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:26:51 AM

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Sundowner,
Before I give you the story about the slap back you have asked for, I just want to address some replies in this thread that seem to think if someone does something inspired by anger it means they’re doing something out of control. I think having the readers project their own personal lack of control or previous bad experiences onto you is unfair and foolish. I lived in the great city of Detroit and I’ve been in confrontations with and without anger that involved guns, knives and lives. I’ve stood vigil with a shotgun while angry mobs swarmed down my Grandmothers street during race riots… I was not out of control whether it was anger or survival that was the inspiring emotion.

Life is choices and when I choose to apply a slap because someone has violated our code of conduct, that is the exercise of control not the lack of control.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have applied a few slaps in my life. I’m not talking about the hundreds of friendly slaps you apply in a lifetime while your domley meat is buried in someone’s face and you’re humiliating them and smacking the hell out of them. I’m talking about that corrective slap, that mild slap (compared to the aforementioned one) you apply when a slave is so far out of line she needs a little physical jolt to get her thinking straight again. I’m talking about that slap you choose to apply instead of killing her when she makes you angry.

I had a relatively new slave (6 months) and she was trying to antagonize me by speaking poorly about my ex slave julie (aka saint julie). I slapped her face. She insta-retaliated using all her martial arts training and tried to take out my eye. I ducked and retain my both my eyes to this day. She continued her assault and I took her down to the floor. A small brawl ensued. Apparently her therapy hadn’t completely cured her of the rape/PST. The difference here is that unlike your OP, I fought her and subjugated her.

There is also another similar story about another slave that hated face slapping either as correction or play. In both cases, we never became just two people, they remained my subordinate and the “limit” was not allowed. They were both conditioned through desensitization and face slapping became acceptable to one girl and tolerable to the other. In both cases, picking the girls up and tossing them over my knee for a spanking became my insta-angry correction methods until they grew out of their negative reactions to face slapping.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
God bless “saint julie”… in 15 years I slapped her face once. She was drunk in New Orleans and insisting we move there because she liked the town so much. As her fondness for the town grew with every drink, she eventual got out of hand while I was driving the car and I slapped her face. She apologized when she sobered up. What a sweetheart.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:27:45 AM

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HARD LIMIT FACE SLAPPING
lol ill take face slapping over my housework hard limit anyday

~why doesnt anyone take me seriously when i say that???~

quote:

A divine piece of artwork made for You. So beautiful so fragile, needing Your skillful touch and watchful eye. Not yet finished, in fact it may take a lifetime but that is why You wanted that divine piece, correct? Than the word broken, seems so harsh, yes?~Never break the spirit, the heart or soul of the most wonderful creature such as the submissive. She lives to please You.~ ~t~

< Message edited by tammystarm -- 8/3/2008 8:29:16 AM >

(in reply to Sundowner)

RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:30:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

... any act of physical violence that is done to me

What I think I'm trying to say DRH is that this is quite different (in context) from "physical violence", intended or actual; yet clearly the reaction, from many, is aggression which is not generally a submissive characteristic.

So I'm thinking out loud here - is a face slap equated for most people with physical violence in a way that a bottom slap isn't? Is it something so unacceptably taboo to most people that it should be unthinkable to any reasonable dom because, however it's administered, it's seen as a voilent attack?

odd as it sounds - a slap in the face is to many more intimate than a brutal "play"-rape. Face to face - eye to eye...maybe it is instinct kicking in?

And this I still can't quite get - rape is a pretty firm and deeply personal taboo. People who go around raping girls get put in prison. Yet the rape fantasy is hugely common and can often form part of play.

i hear you on that one....but a rape fantasy (hopefully) has been discussed, and agreed upon (how silly that sounds for "normal" people - can one rape the willing?) - but a slap that comes out of the blue, can trigger a natural reaction of defense - hence the slap back. No thought - just a reaction...does that make sense?
<mumbles about remaining somewhat confused; more aware after reading comments - thank you people - but still a touch confused>
is blonde - is always in a state of confusion...*L*

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:31:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tammystarm

HARD LIMIT FACE SLAPPING
lol ill take face slapping over my housework hard limit anyday

OMG...OMG....finally one with the same hard limit as me.....*beaming smile*...i thought i was the only one.....

< Message edited by badlilthang -- 8/3/2008 8:36:24 AM >

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:32:07 AM

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It isn't a hard limit for me but not something that I have been interested in having done during a scene/play. However, Master does like face slapping and although it is not on my top ten list it does lend itself to a certain mood/mindset.

Striking out in anger/frustration is a whole different issue and not sure what my reaction would be if that happened.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:32:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

His jokes arent always the best

Oh Greeds - you are so so wrong!

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:36:45 AM

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quote:

I just want to address some replies in this thread that seem to think if someone does something inspired by anger it means they’re doing something out of control. :: snip ::
Life is choices and when I choose to apply a slap because someone has violated our code of conduct, that is the exercise of control not the lack of control.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have applied a few slaps in my life. I’m not talking about the hundreds of friendly slaps you apply in a lifetime while your domley meat is buried in someone’s face and you’re humiliating them and smacking the hell out of them. I’m talking about that corrective slap, that mild slap (compared to the aforementioned one) you apply when a slave is so far out of line she needs a little physical jolt to get her thinking straight again.

I think this was what SD was trying to get across in the op.

And before it's said that if the dominant had better control the submissive wouldn't have gotten OUT of line..all I can say is that submissives are human too.. good days, bad days, etc.
IMO, it's not possible for someone to be PERFECT all the time (or at least, not HEALTHY)

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 8:37:50 AM

opposingtwilight

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner.

So I'm thinking out loud here - is a face slap equated for most people with physical violence in a way that a bottom slap isn't? Is it something so unacceptably taboo to most people that it should be unthinkable to any reasonable dom because, however it's administered, it's seen as a voilent attack?

And this I still can't quite get - rape is a pretty firm and deeply personal taboo. People who go around raping girls get put in prison. Yet the rape fantasy is hugely common and can often form part of play.

<mumbles about remaining somewhat confused; more aware after reading comments - thank you people - but still a touch confused>

Speaking for myself here; a slap on the bottom can be just as bad as a face slap in the wrong context. Corporal punishment is only effective, for me, if I know why I'm being punished. If you just haul off and pop me without telling me why, I'm going to withdraw into myself and wonder why you hurt me rather than go ... Oh, right I broke the rules.

As for rape fantasies; a lot of people who have either been raped or fear being raped will engage in "rape scenes" because it allows them confront those fears. Deep down, they feel safe with the psuedo-rapist. And for some people, the IDEA of being violated and having control violently removed is HOT while the reality is just traumatizing.

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