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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 2:54:30 PM

ElanSubdued

Posts: 1511
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Lynnxz,

quote:

Personally I don't let mouthy, pushy, selfish bitches in my bedroom.

(snip to next post)

I brought chocolate chip cookies and milk. O.o

*Continues to poke the bears*

Forget about the bears. You brought CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES AND MILK! Please may I have a cookie? :-) Oh, and ditto on avoiding mouthy, pushy, selfish bitches (male or female) in my bedroom.

Elan.

(in reply to Lynnxz)

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Post #: 181

RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 3:04:37 PM

ElanSubdued

Posts: 1511
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masterlink65,

quote:

i only consider a sub to be a slave, when the sub relinquishes complete control of itself to a master.

"Itself". Hmmm. Interesting. Regardless of whether a person is owner, master, dominant, switch, submissive, pet, or slave, second and third person pronouns don't enter my world of BDSM.

Elan.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 6:51:56 PM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Philosopher13
Additionally it was to scare the living shit out of any submissive or submissives that call themselves slaves, so they will steer far far away from me.

I'd say you've succeeded at doing this beyond even your wildest dreams.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 6:58:34 PM

tsatske

Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
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quote:

Its great and all you trust your master, but I do not trust something that will cause me YEARS of reprecussions to be allowed done to me. He might deal with the fall out but he has NO obligation to not just walk away and say just I dont want to deal with it. He might not perceive such a fall out happening. Because of that, because I know I personally can not afford the psych bills for the rest of my life It will on a very high chance NOT happen to me (I dont say never, in 10 20 years It might change)

Our way of doing things is not a judgement on you. You have a right to make your choices and I to make mine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the limits you set, or how you chose to demark the borders of those limits.
If there was any judgement on my part, it was towards the OP, who just feels to me like one of those Doms who demands absolute and utter 'no limits', but, at the same time, posses the infantile attitude that, if she says 'no' to something, that is the thing I must do! That is not an attitude that can be trusted with no limits slavery, imo. Not for me, at any rate. Again, those are my choices - for someone else, he might be perfect, i don't know.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 7:28:10 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Philosopher13

M/s-Dominant party is in power
D/s-Submissive party is in power
Fundamentally different concepts.

Gregory
"One man with courage is a majority" Thomas Jefferson

mmmmmmm and what If I told you that I believe everyone has Power... regardless of the label or relationship structure or thier particular orientation?

It is clear from the little I read... you your particular view of power dynamic relationships is different than mine. That doesn't make either one right, better than the other.... but it does make them different and as result there will be different definition of commonly used labels within the lifestyle.

Interesting note about society in general... I think you will find many words have various definitions and sometimes those particular definitions are rather different from each other. It seems that society as a whole seems to beable to function with these various definiion of specific words....... I am not so sure why it should be any different than this particular subculture of society.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 7:51:19 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Philosopher13

I really truely believe that people should be able to define their relationships how they see them or want to see them. We all have brains that all see things differently and god forbid than others should tell us how something so creative and individual as a relationship should be defined BUT I will repeat this part again we need basic outlines of how relationships work or definitions are meaningless. I am all about taking the basic outline and extrapolating however anyone wants but I would all think it would be a benefit to everyone to have a base from where to start to define our relationships directions. Then we wouldn't have to spend hours going through hundred of profiles that are looking for something different. I don't look through homosexual slaves profiles because I am straight, how is this any different? I know we have some members of Fetlife here they have about 10 different defintions from which too choose because that is how many different variances, sometimes in combination, that there are. I personally don't want to be throw into one big hairy igloo, I think the more we can break things down into basic catagories the more helpful it is to find who we are looking for, it is that simple.

You know..........Why the hell can't everyone just speak English.......... what is with these other languages.......... what do we need them for....... I mean.... with out using the same words.... well all those fucking definitions are rather useless... well aren't they?

mmmmmmmmmmm well just maybe .... If I want to understand someone that speaks a different language... I learn what words and definitions they use as they would do the same with me.... and just maybe we can communicate then.

mmmmmmmmmm I wonder if that would work with different relationships too? I mean... what if I take the time to appreciate and understand their relationship as they take the time to appreciate and understand mine. It's not important to attached particular importance to a given label... it's more important to understand the definitions they use for that label... and then just maybe I will understand and appreciate their relationship and they can do the same...........

mmmmmmmmm oh hell that just seems so simple......... can't be right can it?

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 8:11:43 PM

Philosopher13

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You folks are doing pretty well on your own here. Funny thing is that most of the folks that are all up in arms over my ideas would be the first ones to talk in black and white when it comes to their views on politics and many other aspects of their lives but god forbid someone define my lifestyle.

Gregory
"One man with courage is a majority" Thomas Jefferson

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 9:40:09 PM

Hisgirl2playwith

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ok here's my lil two cents. My idea of being a slave is doing what TPE stands for.....Total Power Exchange........i have chosen to submit to my Master totally, completely and unconditionally. i have chosen to give my power over to Him, and i know perfectly well that He can do anything with me He damn well pleases. Does this make me a spineless wimp, or Him a mean terrible ogre? Most certainly NOT. This is where TRUE COMMON SENSE comes in. Anyone in a TPE relationship with any kind of integrity or wisdom knows the difference between having the ability to make someone do something, and actually doing it. hopeless, it seems like you view Masters that want TPE as evil vile men with horns and pitchforks just waiting for the first opportunity to inflict harm on their slaves, but nothing could be further from the truth. Please understand, i'm not attacking you for feeling that way. i just would like to suggest that ANYONE who would be so cold, uncaring, and hard-hearted as to make someone do something that would result in some kind of permanent physical/mental harm is NOT a Master or Dominant at all, but an abusive S.O.B that should be hogtied and beat themselves. Any other point can be argued and debated until it's ground into nothingness, but i don't think there's anyone here that can argue that anyone claiming to be a Dominant type, whether it be Master, Dominant, or Top, is not really "real" if they have no regard whatsoever for the health safety and well-being of the one under their care.

Now, the basis of my interaction with my Master, and any TPE relationship, is the idea of surrendering ALL of my power to Him. Technically yes, that means i have no rights or choices. This should be the basic premise for M/s interaction. Before you get all uptight thinking i'm forcing anyone to think like me, or that my views are the only right ones, please hear me out. After the power exchange has been made, there is room for all sorts of varities and viewpoints as to what happens next, but it is up to the Master to decide. Again, keep in mind that just because a Master CAN take full control, doesn't always mean He should, or even will......a wise Master knows where that line is. A good Master will ask His slave if there is any reason she cannot perform a given task and take that into serious consideration, because a good Master will not want to break His most prized and valued possesion. i also have physical, and a few emotional, challenges that sometimes makes things difficult, but for me personally i don't list them as limits, because i know that although He CAN tell me to do things anyway, He WON'T, because i am of too much value to Him. I AM IN NO WAY ATTACKING ANYONE WHO DOES LIST THESE AS LIMITS, so please put your hackles back down lol. i just know that with a Master that truly understand the dynamics of a TPE relationship, and has the wisom to handle it properly, i don't need to.

To define it as simply as possible, a slave is simply someone that chooses to surrender full and totally control over to the Master. As to what that looks like, that is up to the Master to decide. It could be full 24/7 micro management to the point of telling the slave how to breathe, or it could involve allowing the slave to keep his/her job/personal/family/financial life. It is up to the Master to decide what rights/choices/activities the slave participates in, AND if He really values a happy slave, and really understands that a happy slave seves far better than a disgruntled one, then He will allow her, and even encourage her, to maintain those things that she enjoys.

i know i've probably ruffled a few feathers, stepped on a few toes, and maybe even made some people mad far more than i intended, and if i did i do apologize. i just see far too many people view being a slave or a Master something as being horribly rigid and unfair, and it's really not. A slave is simply one that surrenders their power totally and completely to the Master.......a Master is simply one who chooses to accept that power. That's the basic premise of TPE. What it looks like after that is up to the individual needs of the Master and slave.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 10:09:36 PM

GreedyTop

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Philosopher13

You folks are doing pretty well on your own here. Funny thing is that most of the folks that are all up in arms over my ideas would be the first ones to talk in black and white when it comes to their views on politics and many other aspects of their lives but god forbid someone define my lifestyle.

Gregory
"One man with courage is a majority" Thomas Jefferson

pot, kettle, black.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 10:38:14 PM

Hisgirl2playwith

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Just a side note........any slave that blindly obeys an order that violates common sense health and safety guidelines is just as irresponsible as the Master that would command such things. Cutting off your finger because your Master demanded it to prove your submission doesn't make you a slave, it makes you stupid. Any Master that would demand such a thing is equally as stupid. i know this could start a whole new argument going because those that thrive on being difficult will hotly debate what "common sense" means. If you use that as an excuse to refuse to do a whole list of things, then you probably just don't get it. Most fears and phobias can be overcome with slow, gentle, patient, understanding, loving and prudent guidance. Even quite a few very strong emotional/mental triggers can be helped the same way, and yes, most medical conditions can be worked around too. With that said however, if there is ANYTHING that without question will send you over the edge mentally or cause you serious physical harm every single time no matter how gently or carefully you are handled, and your Master is having a bad day, or some brain fart or whatever you want to call it and requests that of you anyway, that's where common sense comes in. It is much more than a right to say no, it's your responsibility to say no.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/9/2008 7:54:24 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Define it for yourself, that is the only thing you can truly control. Everything else is management. What I see the problem is that your personal definitions do not equal other peoples definitions. Why can you not accept that?

I have my own definition of what a slave is, and I just use my own filters and criteria when seeking that. You can do the same and be happy, rather than bang your head against a wall.

Here you want my definition: Slaves give over all rights and power to the one they surrender to. It is their last act of self determination, so they need to consider carefully before they do so. Once done, that is it. They are meat, property, chattel, and how I treat them is determined by me. There are no hard limits, there is nothing but to be completely obedient and beautiful.

How I treat my property is as valued property, and I treat it so that the value increases. My property rarely sits on furniture, sleeps at the foot of my bed, when not eating out or with family, she eats on the floor beside me, she walks behind me, she calls me Master at all times, she has no rights but I do give her priviliges.

Now you will find some that disagree with what I hjave written, and that is okay, because this is my definition, criteria and how I handle things. Try it for yourself, defining and having criteria, and you will not be as frustrated as trying to impose your definition upon others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Philosopher13

You folks are doing pretty well on your own here. Funny thing is that most of the folks that are all up in arms over my ideas would be the first ones to talk in black and white when it comes to their views on politics and many other aspects of their lives but god forbid someone define my lifestyle.

Gregory
"One man with courage is a majority" Thomas Jefferson

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/9/2008 7:55:55 AM

OrionTheWolf

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If common sense where so common, more people would have it. I agree with the finger cut off or anything else that devalues the property, but at some point there will be an area where some think it is stupid and others think it devotion.

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/9/2008 9:22:14 AM

Jeffff

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And here I thought I was the final arbiter of all that is true and real!

Jeff
(Living and learning)

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/9/2008 9:52:22 AM

GreedyTop

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*hangs on Jefffs every word....*

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/9/2008 9:56:20 AM

Jeffff

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Hanging?...... on the one twue cross?..:)

Jeffwey

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/9/2008 9:58:28 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
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of couwse

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polysnortatious
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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/9/2008 10:50:11 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Philosopher13

Again I will ask the same question that no one is seems to catch why even bother with any defintions? M/s, D/s, T/b are all basic defintions, basic frameworks within to work. After the basic framework is in place then by all means build the relationships as anyone sees fit but why argue about basic fundamental defintions? That is like telling someone who plays football that they are a basketball player.

Gregory
"One man with courage is a majority" Thomas Jefferson

I don't.

I serously don't bother with definations beyond the basics. A submissive or slave is usually someone who prefers to be owned, to be the one beaten and the one serving. Beyond that, it's a relationship label so personal I don't dare attempt to define it for anyone who isn't in a relationship with me. There are people who would qualify as slaves by anyone's defination yet refuse the label because it doesn't suit them or their owner. What are they, in limbo? Or would you disrespect them by refering to them as slaves when they clearly don't want those terms applied to their relationship because you magically know better? Or cut down their master when he doesn't want a complete TPE or a slave when she keeps certain hard limits, even though her owner accepted them?

These are just terms meant to increase fulfillment in one's personal relationship. Trying to apply them to anyone else is fruitless because you simply lack that power. Some will agree with you and some won't. However, please feel free to start yourself G-d. There are subs and slaves who want that - however you are deluding yourself deeply if you think that all, or even most, of submissives create the rules in their relationships. Though I really don't think you scared anybody. You maybe made them laugh and realize that you are completely unsuited for them but not frightened.

Now... can I get in on that pink grass and tub party? Please?

Edited to add: Orion, I have I mentioned how awesome you are lately? I think your posts on this thread are a perfect example of how someone can have very strict definations for their personal relationships yet still be accepting of the fact that other people do things very differently. Thanks you.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 8/9/2008 10:52:30 AM >

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/9/2008 10:53:01 AM

GreedyTop

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*ponders AS in a tub*

*fans self*

(dress pics?? h,mmmmmm???)

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polysnortatious
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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/9/2008 11:01:34 AM

AquaticSub

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Soon, soon! *Grins* YGM by the way... or will shortly... once I get over to the right side of things...

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/9/2008 12:57:57 PM

WizardOfDelphi

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quote:

As far as definitions, to me no one is going to be horribly confused if a female with tendencies to submit to someone introduces herself as a slave... or as a submissive. The definitions are close enough to where it isn't like demanding that a trashcan is REALLY a giraffe.

Not quite. That's more like comparing retarded with ignorant, they same territory but very different connotations.

A slave is generally someone who is extremely submissive to the point of not wanting to be given choices. They frequently do not have many hard limits (some insist they have none) and often prefer not to have a safe word. They want all control taken from them, sometimes by force if needed. Slaves may never want to contradict or express an opinion different than their master's.

A submissive is a person who is submissive but still wants to have some say or control over themselves. They frequently have a list of hard limits and want to use a safe word during scenes. A submissive will often have a mind of their own and if they do not agree with their dominant they may say so if they feel its appropriate.

Both terms describe a person that is submissive but the difference is really in the degree of control they want to give up. Slaves want to have very little if any control. Its reasonably easy to determine which individuals fit into the slave category (even if they don't use or despise the term). Anyone who isn't obviously a slave I personally classify as a submissive.

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