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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 8:38:18 AM

Owner4SexSlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Philosopher13

It has been explained pretty extensively here. The sub is in power in a D/s relationship because SHE CREATES THE RULES AND BOUNDARIES. How much more cut and dry can you get?

Gregory
"One man with courage is a majority" Thomas Jefferson

Personally, I disagree with this statement. Have you even been in a D/s relationship compared to M/s TPE relationship? Perhaps you had some crazy past bad experience with non TPE D/s and it's skewed your personal perspective.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 8:51:29 AM

akisha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Philosopher13

Your point comes from a place of lack of common sense. Would love to hear what medical condition you are refering too that would keep you from being tested in some fashion. If it's irritable bowel syndrome I will laugh until I fall down. If you have some medical condition for example the relates to an allergy for example that wouldn't keep you from being a slave, why would you even have to ask that question. Again where is the common sense here?

Gregory
"One man with courage is a Majority" Thomas Jefferson

I'm not sure what her's are but i for one am very loose jointed, ergo suspension is a hard limit. Not only will my joints dislocate if i'm suspended but if my arms are tied behind my back for any length of time my shoulders will seperate. If I'm hogtied for any length of time both my shoulders and my hips will dislocate.

Lots of people have medical issues that negate them from participating in activities, not because of lack of desire or just cause they don't want to, but it's actually medically detrimental to their well being to do so.

It is very naive to assume that a hard limit stems only from fear.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 8:52:06 AM

Owner4SexSlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Philosopher13

You are still the holder of power and you decided the construct and that totally falls within the definition. If you read my post before this I made the point that
M/s-Dominant is in power
D/s-submissive is in power
TPE doesn't require a 24/7 live in senerio, I use the military protocols as my example of how M/s relationships work because no slave is kept at attention all the time they are also at parade rest and at ease some of the time. It is really how the dominant party defines it that matters.

Gregory
"One man with courage is a majority" Thomas Jefferson

Dude!!.. I've been in both D/s and M/s TPE relationships before, both were I had the power (authority). What's the difference between having 75%, 80%, 90% or 99.9% control aspects of another persons life and the relationship itself? If you are the majority Authority figure of the relationship, you are in charge of things. Let's say, for example.. I had control over everything in a relationship with the exception of her career and income. Does that somehow mean, she's in charge of the relationship? I'm seeing faulty logic here. Even in non TPE D/s relationships, there comes along with it, the abilitity to have influence in the matter as well. For instance, I could always encourage somebody to Quit their crappy job, go back to school, get a degree and better themselves. Even if you don't have Authority in a given area or aspect, you do have an impact on choices made.

Can you Imagine that, a Dom using the power of influence verses the power of authority to take hold of a situation.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 9:03:58 AM

Owner4SexSlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Philosopher13

We fundamentally see sub and slaves completely differently to compound this even more. I personally don't think subs can become slaves. They are wired completely differently. Subs always look at things in terms of them and what the relationship can do for them. A slave looks at the relationship as how she can make someone else happy and how best she can serve that persons needs. A slave basically sacrifices herself to a Master and vicariously receives pleasure from his happiness. I will be waiting for all the stones to fly my way.

Gregory
"One man with courage is a majority" Thomas Jefferson

I really have to toss my two cents in here on this one!   Many M/s relationships start off as Partial Power Exchange D/s relationships. Authority transfer or the power exchange is a bit of a dynamic beast that takes time. Ironic, there are people who probally look at and view their relationship as being D/s, however it's probally advanced into M/s TPE territory.

Actually, I'm certain there's probally a number of articles and information on the Net posted regarding TPE/APE whatever label you slap on it. That will back up everything I'm saying right now.  In fact, I'm going to be cocky and a little arrogant about this one.

All slaves are submissives. Any submissive has the potential to fully submit all authority/power or turn her life over fully and completely in all areas to a Dominant (Master/Mistress). It all depends upon desire, motivation, trust and other things for this to happen.

Complete Authority does not magically occur over night! Perhaps if a submissive is so used to high level TPE, that it's second nature to her.

People grow and evolve in this lifestyle.. Even slaves have challenges and hurdles, and there are internal struggles with authority and such.   All depends Dude.   Things such as Trust, Respect and other things fit into the equation.

Even Dom/mes, Masters or Mistress (other labels) grow and Evolve as well.

Now, many people start off entering into a M/s relationship right from get go, however they both have made a commitment towards working on and having a TPE relationship.   It takes time for TPE to fully happen between people entering into an agreed TPE relationship.

< Message edited by Owner4SexSlave -- 8/8/2008 9:09:13 AM >

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 9:09:07 AM

GreedyTop

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to the op..

I've been talking with someone who feels that I am a slave at heart. He says this based on conversations we've had about things we both like, things I don't like NOW, but am willing to explore with the right person..

I see myself as a bottom.. POSSIBLY submissive to the right person.. how does THAT fit in with your 'theories'?

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 9:30:38 AM

RCdc

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I was wondering that as well GT. Well, for me anyway.
I fit all the OPs critera for what a 'slave' is 'supposed' to be but I am not one as Darcy doesn't accept the term - although we do not call it TPE because we find that a misleading expression as you know, so call is authority transfere.

quote:

Lastly M/s is far more about the psychological and spirtual aspects than D/s is and example is that in D/s pissing into a subs mouth is alot of times seen as humiliating or territory marking. In M/s pissing into a slaves mouth goes to a much deeper bonding experience. She consumes me as a symbol of unity and the bond we share, as it leaves me she gains nourishment from my body. As the bond grows she feels empty without it. What goes through me goes through her and part of me becomes part of her

And I am just totally mistified why on earth anyone would make such a claim as they do above. When I am filled with the fluid - be it cum, saliva, or blood or whatever... that is his essence and part of him and who he is. How dare anyone assume that this symbolic occurance has anything to do with being a Master and a slave only? It has me wondering just how much actual experience anyone has had, to make such ridiculous claims. It reeks of fantasy and pretense. The OP has readily admitted this is nothing more for him than a sales pitch so I doubt he will be back to respond to back up his claims and answer these questions I have posed, but you never know.

the.dark.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 9:34:29 AM

GreedyTop

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dark.. doncha know you're a SLAVE??
after all,. you place importance on Darcy's happiness!! I mean, if you were actually a submissive, it would be all ABOUT YOU..

sheesh;... what? are ya NEW?

*snort*

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 9:53:30 AM

hopelessfool

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Philosopher13

So you never push her limits? I would be doing slaves a diservice if I allowed them the power of negotiation. Facing fears and moving past those fears is a part of this as well. If you have an open door policy and she is afraid of needles for example and she is still there before and after you use those needles not only has she faced a fear but she has again proven her devotion. Again this goes back to the mental aspects of M/s the proverbial mind fuck if you will. The rope of the mind. The bond and spirtual unity created from this little example and a myriad of others blows the doors off any other relationship and the only way you can get any idea of what I am talking about on this part specifically is to experience it. You sew up a womans pussy for a day that is afraid of needles my friend and you will get a glimpse of what I am talking about, and don't forget this is under and open door policy.

Gregory
"One man with courage is a majorty" Thomas Jefferson

And what if in Doing so going against her limit and she agrees you destroys her mentally Not just physically. As an example, Do you think its wise to put your sub not only in the hospital but a psych ward for evaluation because YOU put her in a cage (I claw at flesh theres some type of trigger to being locked somewhere) Just because Shes a slave she MUST do it... How is her being away from you for several days if Not months at all benificial to Either of you stimply because YOU have a penis and YOU are a master and YOU say she to be a slave MUST be in a cage....

, Im sorry but a slave that has no spirt no will to live no passion isnt a slave at all but a victim of abuse by an idiotic asshole who thinks his good given right to do this thsi and this to someone is more important then his core job... NOT TO DESTROY OR HARM HIS DEVOTEE

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 10:03:44 AM

philosophy

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FR

.....map/territory error. Language is a map of meaning, but isn't meaning itself. The words 'sub', slave', 'bottom' are all just that...words. To attempt to pin reality down to the narrow definition which is all a word can do is to attempt to simplify reality....which is always a bad idea, because when you do you inevitably miss something.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 10:04:18 AM

RCdc

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Is this where I am supposed to expound and revel in how many 'years' that I have being 'living the lifestyle' - how I was only *insertillegalagehere* when I started and list my 'mentors' - taught by old school, re-live the 'good ole days' and...
... how I was 'raised by wolves'....

opps...sorry.... wrong thread...?????

the.dark.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 10:07:37 AM

GreedyTop

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I so adore you, dark.. *kiss*

Phil.. excellent point.. although, frankly, I think the op (if he decides to revisit this thread) will somehow manageto twist it in his head...

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 10:12:05 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Phil.. excellent point.. although, frankly, I think the op (if he decides to revisit this thread) will somehow manageto twist it in his head...

...maybe not, i'm hoping the similarity in our names will let me sneak past......heh......

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 10:14:58 AM

GreedyTop

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good luck ;)

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 10:18:47 AM

RCdc

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*swoons*

the.dark.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 10:50:03 AM

tsatske

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Thank you, Phil. I have so much trouble saying that here. Why is it so hard - there is no way around the fact that every word has differant meaning to differant people. There is no short cut to actual communication. Understanding what a word means to another gives you a glimpse inside their head. Nothing could be better - a nice, pat, easy to refrence set in stone dictionary will never work, but, if it did, it could never be as good as just talking to someone, finding out what things mean to them.

Hopeless,
I am a slave without limits. That means Master decides what I will do and what I will not do.
This is how I am built, this is who I am, it is what I was searching for when I was unowned. But I searched a long time and with great patience.
I could never have agreed to belong to, or even to play with, our dear OP. He gives me the feeling of a small child, who goes looking for potentail walls just to see if he can jump them.
A man to whom I give that much power must have some calm maturity. When I say - 'I will do what you decide, Sir, but in my past experience, being locked in a cage has caused me to claw the skin off my body with panic', (using your example), I need to know that he makes whatever decisions he makes with calm maturity, not just going 'Oh, goody! something she says she can't do! Bet I can make her!'
Might Master 'make' me do something that I think i can't or shouldn't do? Sure, but I trust him to do so with great care - and it is more likely that he just won't. This is the difference in having limits and not - if I had limits, i would simply know it would not happen, because I would make it a limit. Without limits, I trust that - it probably won't happen, depending on how big and bad a deal it is. If it happens, Master will decide so with great care and consideration, will take all necessary precautions, and it will be his job to deal with the fallout. I trust him to do that, I trust him to not want to deal with fallout that is too bad - so i trust him to make the right decision.
the OP does not strike me as having that kind of maturity.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 10:51:37 AM

AllietheKitten

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Philosopher13

The person who makes the rules and creates the boundaries is the one who holds the power whether the the two parties agree or not if the submissive party in the beginning places boundaries or rules on the relationship it can never be a M/s relationship because the submissive created the boundaries. A slave never ever creates rules or makes boundaries, when she surrenders herself totally it is up to the Master to decide what those rules and boundaries are. Its called faith people and its about trust a pretty big pill obviously for alot to swallow.

Your post assumes a hell of a lot about other people's relationships. However, this tidbit is what really toasts me...Why on earth would I want to be with someone that had no idea of personal limits or boundries? How is that a *good* thing?
I believe that, over time, my sub will come to trust me enough to go beyond what he thought he would be able to bear...but I would never ask him to come into the relationship like that. Its pure foolishness! That sort of the faith is the kind that creates scars...
Also, I really object to you saying that D/s is only about the physical aspect of BDSM. Here's a news flash--- Pissing into someone's mouth doesn't make you deep and spiritual.

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 11:06:41 AM

DiurnalVampire

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AllietheKitten
Also, I really object to you saying that D/s is only about the physical aspect of BDSM. Here's a news flash--- Pissing into someone's mouth doesn't make you deep and spiritual.

I have been ignoring the thread, but this comment made me spew coffee.
Maybe for the OP thats the most spiritual as he gets?

DV

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 11:11:08 AM

AllietheKitten

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Rofl!
This thread has been a barrel of laughs, seriously...

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 11:47:37 AM

hopelessfool

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

If it happens, Master will decide so with great care and consideration, will take all necessary precautions, and it will be his job to deal with the fallout. I trust him to do that, I trust him to not want to deal with fallout that is too bad - so i trust him to make the right decision.
the OP does not strike me as having that kind of maturity.

Its great and all you trust your master, but I do not trust something that will cause me YEARS of reprecussions to be allowed done to me. He might deal with the fall out but he has NO obligation to not just walk away and say just I dont want to deal with it. He might not perceive such a fall out happening.

Because of that, because I know I personally can not afford the psych bills for the rest of my life It will on a very high chance NOT happen to me (I dont say never, in 10 20 years It might change)

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RE: Slaves who are subs - 8/8/2008 2:44:11 PM

ElanSubdued

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Philosopher13,

quote:

M/s-Dominant party is in power
D/s-Submissive party is in power
Fundamentally different concepts.

WTF? Perhaps this is how your BDSM relationships work. The definitions you've provided don't describe my BDSM relationships at all. In my relationships, we're both in power, however, we have very different roles and responsibilities.

Elan.

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