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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/21/2008 6:13:45 AM

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IrishMist...you are correct in that. It was a blanket statement now that i read it after my morning coffee.

But i do take exception to the "closed mind" statement and stand firm of my belief (note the "MY" please) that a title of respect is earned.

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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/21/2008 6:15:40 AM

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quote:

But i do take exception to the "closed mind" statement and stand firm of my belief (note the "MY" please) that a title of respect is earned.

I do apologize

ANd it's good that you stand firm in your beliefs on that; on some level, I partially agree with you; but that's a different discussion

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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/21/2008 6:17:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

But i do take exception to the "closed mind" statement and stand firm of my belief (note the "MY" please) that a title of respect is earned.

I do apologize
ANd it's good that you stand firm in your beliefs on that; on some level, I partially agree with you; but that's a different discussion

no apology please. You have an opinion and stated it very well

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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/21/2008 6:25:25 AM

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quote:

no apology please. You have an opinion and stated it very well

LMAO actually, it is. I have read enough of your posts to know that you DON'T have a closed mind; it was said for one reason only...to provoke a reaction...something that I tend to do with regularity

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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/21/2008 8:40:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sandyshores29718

For personal beliefs I will not call my Dom Master. It is in no way shape or form disrespect. Just how I was raised and my beliefs. What I want to know from some of the Dom/mes is how would you take that? Would you feel as if it was disrespectful or would you understand and respect that?

I am not collared, but in a relationship with a Dom and he knows my personal feelings and understands and doesnt care that I dont call him Master. I mostly call him by his given name, but there are times I call him Sir. I just wanted to get some others thoughts on the matter.

Sandy,

for my money, I simply do not allow the title to be used

CP

(in reply to Sandyshores29718)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/21/2008 11:16:43 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

Am I going to get in trouble for adding, "And Abraham was a created character to serve a primarily aetological purpose, and so *not a real person*"?

Source please.

I don't know about you and Christians, since I'm not one.

Take you pick of theological text books... to quote a few names at you of people who hold this view... Prof Dr John Day (he's written lots), Madhavi Nevader (Oriel, Oxford)... oh heck, most nonChristian theologians take Abraham as a literary creation.

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/21/2008 2:24:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

I am not a masochist or interested in being humiliated. I fear the lack of respect would prevent me from becoming romantically involved with someone that made me feel they didn’t respect me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Example
I met a nice masochist and she has a very feminine demeanor. A real nice chic with no real control issues. But she has no BDSM protocol. It is stressful for me to speak with her because we have high interest in each other but her protocol is one I am not used to. She calls when she cannot pay me her full attention like girls do to each other. When we talk she treats me with the most relaxed protocols vanilla lovers use… not even a Sir like most vanillas call me. I get a little stressed because it sorta’ makes me feel like some weird female potential lesbian lover friend type of thing. It doesn’t make me feel like a man. It has totally changed my approach to her. We plan on meeting soon. When we do, I can’t see being anything other than a vanilla gentleman sadist with her. The Master in me would never tolerate the disrespect of no protocol.

... but that's just me.

Your example sounds a bit like me. *ggls* I have no protocol because I've never been "trained." Apparently, the dominant before and the dominant now aren't sticklers for it. *shrugs* Anywho, what if she or I had been trained by someone? It doesn't mean you'll like whatever protocol someone else used. For instance, she could've been trained to say "Sir, yes, sir" every single time she answers you or "sir, yes, sir, thank you, sir" every time you tell her to do something. What if that was extremely annoying to you? The point is....um.....what was the point? Oh, right.....that's why it's called training! Maybe you could try being a bit more domly and tell her "Why don't you...um....you know....like....call me back when you actually have time to talk, 'kay? *click*" I bet it wouldn't take her long to learn what you want.

< Message edited by FlamingRedhead -- 8/21/2008 2:26:11 PM >

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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/22/2008 10:37:09 AM

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I absolutly understand the religous reasons you are uncomfortable with that word.
I think that religon is the ONLY thing that could surpass my feelings for my "master"

That being said...religion is very arbitrary, so it's also a matter of finding someone who shares that belief, or at least identifies with it.
I didn''t even speak my "Masters" given name, I equate it to calling my parents by their first names. I did call him Sir a lot, and as we were alone most of the time, I didn't use a signifier. In public I would go by his first name whom nobody usually uses, and I call him Master when as a direct question.

The whole no name thing was self-imposed, he really liked that.

(in reply to Sandyshores29718)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/22/2008 10:38:22 AM

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Oops, I missed this before, spologies to Raven...

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

You can disagree all you like, but Ironbear is quite correct. Some lifestyles have set protocol and rituals, and one of those is calling males Master and females Mistress, for a couple of them.

Absolutely, I run a TPE Dynamic, it is made quite clear from the get go that obedience is not optional, not negotiable but mandatory. The girl can inform Me if she has a problem but if *I* decide she is capable of doing something then she WILL give 100% attempting to do so.... else she can get her ass out the door.

I come from a mental health background, I know all about trigger words etc. and do NOT see them as an excuse, I won't accept them as such and one who wants to cling to them as that best look elsewhere. Same with any "ethical" issues, a girl giving herself to Me is placing those issues under MY control.... if she can't do that then again, go look elsewhere.

That is quite different than a girl who simply gives Me information on what she finds difficult and Me helping her over those issues... either way, what she actualy CAN do, she WILL do.... the choises and decisions are MINE to make. Point blank refusal is likely to cause a point blank DISMISSAL!

I didn't intend to have what as said coming across as my using trigger words as an excuse, certainly people who know me would never say I shy away from doing something because I am triggered by it. Rather I tend to take the oppositte stance of "poke it til it doesn't trigger any more". That said, there are some triggers I'm not ready to deal with yet, they're either too bad or I don't feel secure enough, etc (you've got a mental health background, you know the drill.)

Weirdly, I have no problem using "Master" as a title, for example in a Gorean setting. You can be called "Master Whatever you feel like" and I'm more than happy to address you as such. It's not the word, it's the relation to me.

For the same reason that I am not comfortable being called "slave" so I am not comfortable calling someone (my) "Master).

You've got a mental health background, Raven, you know, therefore, how draining working through triggers can be, and how you tend to start with the ones that are a part of your life most significantly. I sing in a lot of churches and chapels. I'm triggered by black and white marble floors. That is therefore a big deal for me, and one I've been working through for a while. Have I ever stopped singing because of it, no. But it's something I'm working on.

I think it's also a good idea to point out that some triggers are different to others. Some will trigger panic, other flashbacks, some catatonia, others I'll simply keel over (yes, that has happened, twas not a pleasent experience). As it happens, the whole "Master" schtick is one of the not so helpful end result triggers, and I do wind up "shutting down". If you want a catatonic flashbacking sub, go for it, but oftentimes, the person with the mind, and the person who went through the experience is best placed to tell you whether it's a good idea to push this particular button or not. And not to label that behaviour as "making excuses" or "being disobedient". Of course, it depends very much on how respectfully someone communicates their difficulties, but I hate to assume the worst of people.

I'm sure I don't need to tell you that this applies all the more when the "issues" become "complex" and co-morbid. There is a reason I can't find a therapist willing to do EMDR/work with me. *Grumbles*

(in reply to RavenMuse)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/24/2008 9:57:05 PM

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I have no issue with calling a Dom, Master, but I agree with you, Ivy, as far as trigger words go - and I'll add for myself, if my Dom used a word that He knew would trigger me - I would lose trust in Him. Some issues run very deep and are complex and if he could not realise this and show compassion it would hinder the relationship greatly.

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/24/2008 11:39:06 PM

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sirsholly,

Woith you attitude, I can promise you that I woulkd never ask you to accompany me to the White House, Government House or the Court of St James for either afternoon tea or a formal dinner since you apparently are unable to accept that there are places and occasions even in the mundane world in which correct protocole is damanded. (Including how to eat properly and use the appropriate utensiles.)..You stay in your world and I'll gather about me those who understand and/or desire to learn..

IB
(The incorrigible, irrepressible and irreverent Bear)

(in reply to sirsholly)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 5:31:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wellysub
I'll add for myself, if my Dom used a word that He knew would trigger me - I would lose trust in Him. Some issues run very deep and are complex and if he could not realise this and show compassion it would hinder the relationship greatly.

Some hide behind such things because they are hooked on the sympathy and don't actualy WANT to deal with it. You can't help someone who won't help themself... and believe Me there are MANY of that nature, pychological hypocondriacs, out there.

If I take a girl on who has an issue or two then I will work to help her through it... so long as she is giving Me 100% effort, working WITH Me to overcome the problem. What I am not prepaired to do is waste My time with someone who wants Me to TRY and 'fix' her (Doomed to failiour because all You can do is help someone to 'fix' themself, so if they are not putting in the effort You are doomed to failiour), nor am I willing to take on a girl who needs so much (professional) help that I feel I'm back at work. I am supposed to be her Master, NOT her therapist!

When I took on My current girl she had difficulty with the word Master.... I still took her on because she 'had difficulty' with it... not "can't" and certainly not "won't"... she did and I helped her through those problems. Now it isn't so much a big deal for her. But then My girl only needed a bit of help, she didn't need a therapist!

It isn't the use of a trigger word that would be a breach of trust, it is doing so without picking up the consequences and helping the girl through it. Often hitting a trigger, helping the girl through it and safely out the other side is a good way to defuse the trigger, the 'bomb' doesn't go off and she finds herself still safe in the arms of someone she trusts..... the trigger looses much of its 'power' over her. she gains context on it.

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And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

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(in reply to wellysub)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 5:37:18 AM

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Or you can use the trigger make things worse and ruin a relationship, sometimes our mind and body have scars that wont go away and are always there.

Anyways in regard to the Master thing, I wouldnt ever call someone Master not for religious reasons not because im a rubbish sub and not because I lack respect just for me it makes me laugh, silly i know but its something I wouldnt want to get over its not a problem for me I have no issue with others that use it but it makes me laugh always has.

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(in reply to RavenMuse)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 5:44:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
silly i know but its something I wouldnt want to get over its not a problem for me

Again, not something I personaly would accept and an indication that the girl isn't compatable. I don't care if she doesn't WANT to get over it, if I decide she WILL then she will, else she ain't what I seek.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to colouredin)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 5:45:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

sirsholly,

Woith you attitude, I can promise you that I woulkd never ask you to accompany me to the White House, Government House or the Court of St James for either afternoon tea or a formal dinner since you apparently are unable to accept that there are places and occasions even in the mundane world in which correct protocole is damanded.

Go right ahead and demand your proper protocol...to someone that cares. Proper protocol is as silly as saying there is one weal twue way. What is proper for you is obviously not a factor in my world. The dynamic my husband and i have works for us, and works very well. THAT is all i care about.

But damnit....the next time you are invited to the White House i will not be your date?

and

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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 5:46:29 AM

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and thats what its all about isnt it, vive la differance (i seem to say that on here so much) its all about compatability really and of course the best type of compatability is when these arent even issues in the first place where no one has to get over anything because actually you both want the same thing.

Edit to add, for me personally if for someone a name was a thing that would make or break a relationship i wouldnt much want that any way it seems like such a minor thing, of course lots of minor things and that a problem and i know some people love the name thing it gives them a boost for whatever reason its just my feeling that the Dom shouldnt feel he needs it, of course there are arguments relating to not needing it but wanting it and being a bad sub and whatever but to my view it shouldnt be an issue because even within D/s there needs to be compromise i think.

< Message edited by colouredin -- 8/25/2008 5:56:53 AM >

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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 5:55:09 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

and thats what its all about isnt it, vive la differance (i seem to say that on here so much) its all about compatability really and of course the best type of compatability is when these arent even issues in the first place where no one has to get over anything because actually you both want the same thing.

compatability...with a healthy dose of communication tossed in

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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 5:58:05 AM

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Communication?!? what the heck is that?

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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 6:10:37 AM

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or

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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 6:57:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

and thats what its all about isnt it, vive la differance (i seem to say that on here so much) its all about compatability really and of course the best type of compatability is when these arent even issues in the first place where no one has to get over anything because actually you both want the same thing.

Absolutely, hence in another recent thread here I called bullshit on the whole "you are not a sub if you won't do 'x'" because if the girl finds a Master/Dom/Top that she is compatable with then either she will do 'x'... for Him... or He won't require her to do 'x' and she may well be prefectly submissive... to Him!

quote:

Edit to add, for me personally if for someone a name was a thing that would make or break a relationship i wouldnt much want that any way it seems like such a minor thing, of course lots of minor things and that a problem and i know some people love the name thing it gives them a boost for whatever reason its just my feeling that the Dom shouldnt feel he needs it, of course there are arguments relating to not needing it but wanting it and being a bad sub and whatever but to my view it shouldnt be an issue because even within D/s there needs to be compromise i think.

Don't get Me wrong, the issue her isn't her calling Me Master.... My girl calls Me Daddy much more often than she calls Me Master. The issue is control, someone who WON'T call Me Master if I should require it is keeping some of that control for herself. THAT is the issue for Me and why such a girl isn't compatable. I run TPE, I deal with a slave, the decisions are MINE, not hers. A sub who needs to keep some of the control isn't compatable. The issue itself, the name called, is a minor thing, but the control issue it shows is VERY major to Me.

And 'compromise' is all too often cited where the sub wants her own way.... her Own way is out the door. This House runs MY way. If she has a problem she brings it to Me, We communicate till I understand the problem and then *I* decide what, if anything is to be done and that is what she submits to.... that is as close to compromise I will go.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to colouredin)

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