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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 7:59:35 AM

Monkeyontuesday

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

Am I going to get in trouble for adding, "And Abraham was a created character to serve a primarily aetological purpose, and so *not a real person*"?

Source please.

I don't know about you and Christians, since I'm not one.

Take you pick of theological text books... to quote a few names at you of people who hold this view... Prof Dr John Day (he's written lots), Madhavi Nevader (Oriel, Oxford)... oh heck, most nonChristian theologians take Abraham as a literary creation.

Clarification, please? Are we talking just non-Christian or atheistic theologians or non-monotheistic or what? It makes a huge difference and while this one little bit caught my eye, it interested me a great deal.

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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 1:35:26 PM

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its out of the door to you, to others its not the case, they consider their subs wishes even if they choose to disregard them its a case of choosing when. Either way it seems pedantic

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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 1:48:07 PM

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what you choose to see as pedantic I see as just one way an uncompatable girl seeks to veil the base fact that she is not willing to submit on all levels, she wants to keep certain areas of control... which is fine for Dom/sub, they can just negotiate the areas of exchange. The T in TPE = Total, no room nor point in negotiating what areas, I require ALL, anything less isn't compatable.

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And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

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(in reply to colouredin)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 1:52:02 PM

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She still has an element of control, she can leave, if you want her to stay then even without realising it you may change what your needs are

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I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to RavenMuse)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 2:09:44 PM

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That is the one right she has... remove consent and leave. As for the rest of your claim... dream on! I will NOT compromise who and what I am for ANY girl.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to colouredin)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 2:51:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkeyontuesday

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

Take you pick of theological text books... to quote a few names at you of people who hold this view... Prof Dr John Day (he's written lots), Madhavi Nevader (Oriel, Oxford)... oh heck, most nonChristian theologians take Abraham as a literary creation.

Clarification, please? Are we talking just non-Christian or atheistic theologians or non-monotheistic or what? It makes a huge difference and while this one little bit caught my eye, it interested me a great deal.

Well, non-Christian doesn't mean atheist. I'm trying to find a way to explain it now. Most theologians who study and work with Christianinty are either Christian or not Christian (but not, say, Muslim). I mean the ones who aren't Christian, or who aren't evangelical Christian, as some liberal Christian theologians still hold Abraham and various parts of the Tanak (Hebrew Bible/Old Testament) as an aetiological construct.

You're right, it makes a difference, and chances are my first explaination was horribly unclear. Sorry 'bout that. But hope I've helped make things less muddy now.

(in reply to Monkeyontuesday)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 3:08:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wellysub
I'll add for myself, if my Dom used a word that He knew would trigger me - I would lose trust in Him. Some issues run very deep and are complex and if he could not realise this and show compassion it would hinder the relationship greatly.

Ignoring that, I'd say deliberatly triggering someone is flat out irresponsible. Especially if you aren't a trained (in the relevent field) professional. (And by that I mean that you may work in mental health with addicts, for example, but that does not mean you are qualified to start triggering trauma/incest victims and working with them.)

quote:

ORIGIANL: Ravenmuse

Some hide behind such things because they are hooked on the sympathy and don't actualy WANT to deal with it. You can't help someone who won't help themself... and believe Me there are MANY of that nature, pychological hypocondriacs, out there.

I agree, there are lots of people who have and do come to me for counselling/support who have no inclination of acting on what you say/the work we do. It's one of the things that has driven me from working with many groups.

quote:

If I take a girl on who has an issue or two then I will work to help her through it... so long as she is giving Me 100% effort, working WITH Me to overcome the problem. What I am not prepaired to do is waste My time with someone who wants Me to TRY and 'fix' her (Doomed to failiour because all You can do is help someone to 'fix' themself, so if they are not putting in the effort You are doomed to failiour), nor am I willing to take on a girl who needs so much (professional) help that I feel I'm back at work. I am supposed to be her Master, NOT her therapist!

I'd question whether someone who is in a relationship with someone is in any way in a place to act as their therapist. There are boundaries and things to be considered. I'd say this extends to helping them deal with issues in a manner that would be similar to that of a therapist as well.

I agree, you can't fix someone else, they have to fix themselves. This is one thing that is driving me barmy with the NHS (pun very much intended)

quote:

When I took on My current girl she had difficulty with the word Master.... I still took her on because she 'had difficulty' with it... not "can't" and certainly not "won't"... she did and I helped her through those problems. Now it isn't so much a big deal for her. But then My girl only needed a bit of help, she didn't need a therapist!

I'm glad your girl didn't need a therapist, but please, this reads like a veiled dig at those of us who are admitting that the problems we're facing are bigger than someone we can deal with ourselves and doing the responsible/sensible thing and going and getting help for that. I'm sure that's not what you meant, but it is how it read.

quote:

It isn't the use of a trigger word that would be a breach of trust, it is doing so without picking up the consequences and helping the girl through it. Often hitting a trigger, helping the girl through it and safely out the other side is a good way to defuse the trigger, the 'bomb' doesn't go off and she finds herself still safe in the arms of someone she trusts..... the trigger looses much of its 'power' over her. she gains context on it.

I agree with the "poke it, poke it and poke it some more and soon it won't be a trigger" approach. It's the approach I take with myself most ofthen. But I would again question whether someone a person is in a relationship with is the best person to do the poking. Especially if it's D/s or M/s and there's an expectation on the part of the "s" to "please", which could lead them to feeling pressure to do work they aren't ready for.

Also, questioning the qualifications of someone to work with someone with trigger difficulties. Obviously, Raven, you have a mental health background, so are going in clued-up, but braodly making these statements could lead to non-clued-up, non knowledgeable people/dominants thinking they can do it too. And f*cking it up. And making more work for those of us what then fix the people concerned.

And finally, as I said before, just poking/triggering a "trigger word" without consent and forward planning, and the relevent training experience and skill is down right irresponsible.

Part of why I *do not* tell people what triggers me is that I do not want them to know and think, "hey, if I do this, she will..." enough unqualified/irresponsible/evil people have fucked with my head that now, I'm really cautious about who goes anywhere near it. If that means I'm retaining control and not suitable for TPE... my health, mental and physical, is far more important than any relationship I might have.

(in reply to RavenMuse)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 8/25/2008 3:08:37 PM

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From: Mooland
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Seeing Im switch I thought I might aswell post. If my sub/slave didn't want to call me Mistress, then it wouldn't bother me so long as they had a good reason for it. If I was collared by a Dom/me then that would be the ONLY time that I called them Master or Mistress. Anyone else(including their partner) would be called Sir or Miss. You can only wear one collar, so you only belong to ONE person, calling like more then one person Master or Mistress just takes away the meaning of the collar

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(in reply to IvyMorgan)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 9/2/2008 11:24:37 AM

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From: Arkansas
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'Master' and 'Mastery' are two interrelated terms which are oftentimes misused.

Once I have 'mastered' myself and earned such a title, I figure I'll be good and ready to put on the mantle of 'Master'. Until then, I shun any title.

(in reply to Sandyshores29718)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 9/3/2008 11:06:34 AM

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Titles of respect should be earned certainly.

But at what point does a submissive have the right to decide on their own that someone hasn't earned that title.

Thankfully the Leather subculture has a traditional method by which someone earns their title. If someone doesn't choose to respect someone's earned title and use it in proper places, then they don't belong in the Leather sub-culture.

I can't speak of Gorean because I'm not a practicioner.

But I will say this. When there isn't a standard structure for earning your title. It is my belief that the only time in which you are justified in being called a Master is when you have a collared slave under your ownership.

Sir, Ma'am, these should be perfectly acceptable honorifics for non slave owning Dominants.

But if it's your submissive, and you require them to call you Master/Mistress, then they can either submit to your will, explain why they don't want to, or leave. That is also perfectly acceptable.

If you are a submissive and your Dominant requires you to call them Master or Mistress, you can either do as you are told, or tell them why you don't want to, or leave. Though if you leave without saying why... then you are the one who failed.

Frank

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 9/4/2008 5:00:47 AM

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i would not and do not have a problem with this as "master" is a term or title used to adress the level knowledge that a person has in this art
that being said
the person you are serving is still one(a master) weather you say it or not so the point to me is moot
as i am not that formal to begin with

(in reply to Sandyshores29718)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 9/4/2008 9:50:15 AM

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i couldn't call Him Master for a few months due to a previous bad experience and the whole getting-to-know-eachother/trust issue. It bothered me to the point that i mentioned it to Him and He merely stated that He knew i would when i was comfortable and it felt "right". He was right on the money LOL.

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(in reply to Sandyshores29718)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 9/5/2008 7:42:14 AM

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Okay...I have to admit I was really against you perspective and behavior till I got to this part of your post. The reason is that at the beginning it appeared that you were going to behave in a manner that made you happy and there was little indication that your Master was in anything other than "resigned" agreement to YOUR choice. Now if your indicating that BOTH you and your Master have the same religious beliefs, indoctrinations and you both are in agreement as to the prohibition of using the word Master in reference to anything/one other than your individual interpretation of God...I don't have ANY issue at all. I would call that a "Mutually Shared Reality" where the only two people required to share the belief are you and your Master. Now if on the other hand your Dom/Master doesn't share this same religious belief and is only willing to accommodate you...I might still back you up if it's something that was agreed to at the outset of the relationship, as a known and agreed to "limit or boundary" issue. However, if none of this is true and it's simply that you have a religious belief that you are forcing him to fall into accordance with, against what he truly wants...to be called Master. Then I say that is "topping from the bottom" and because it's such a serious issue, the self-identity of your Dom. as Master over you...I personally would end the relationship over it. This is why religion (and a lot of other issues) is such a tricky issue to find agreement or Shared Mutually Reality with, if one person has vastly different beliefs than the other.

In the end, I really hope this is a non-issue between the two of you because there are so many more immediate or tangible issues like- health, children, family, work and finances to worry about.

Whiplash

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sandyshores29718

As a christian you are taught to call no one, but God Master and the list of names go on. lol

edit to add*
We both agree that Sir works for us, though if during a scene if I want to call him Master I am allowed, but he does not care for it.

(in reply to Sandyshores29718)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 9/5/2008 5:06:14 PM

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*quick reply*

I think it's annoying to be called 'master.' 'Sir' is sort of okay, but I would not want that very often either. I guess it's hottest to be called by my name unless roleplaying. I mean, she could be thinking of anything while yelling out "yes, Sir" but she kind of has to have me in mind a little bit if saying my name. *shrugs*

(in reply to Sandyshores29718)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 9/5/2008 5:21:13 PM

theq

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To answer the OP, my girl calls me "Sir", by my preference. We've been together about 3-4 months now and she will be getting a consideration collar soon (hopefully she isn't reading!). In my book, "Master" isn't a word any girl should toss around lightly.

Going back directly to the question at hand, my girl will address me as I'll have her address me. That being said, I am a pretty reasonable and understanding chap.

Q

(in reply to Sandyshores29718)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 9/5/2008 5:21:58 PM

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I don't care at all for the term Master. It just sounds and feels contrived to me. Which doesn't make complete sense considering I like to use the term Sir, and that, on the other hand, feels extremely natural to me with the right man.

I suppose if I was with someone to whom it mattered that much, I'd try to get past it and call him Master just because he wanted it, but it would still feel very fake to me.

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(in reply to Sandyshores29718)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 9/5/2008 5:26:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSpinner

But at what point does a submissive have the right to decide on their own that someone hasn't earned that title.

ooo...right you are, hon. All submissives are bloomin' idiots and certainly would need help making such a decision.

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RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 9/5/2008 5:51:25 PM

Sandyshores29718

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipLash803

Okay...I have to admit I was really against you perspective and behavior till I got to this part of your post. The reason is that at the beginning it appeared that you were going to behave in a manner that made you happy and there was little indication that your Master was in anything other than "resigned" agreement to YOUR choice. Now if your indicating that BOTH you and your Master have the same religious beliefs, indoctrinations and you both are in agreement as to the prohibition of using the word Master in reference to anything/one other than your individual interpretation of God...I don't have ANY issue at all. I would call that a "Mutually Shared Reality" where the only two people required to share the belief are you and your Master. Now if on the other hand your Dom/Master doesn't share this same religious belief and is only willing to accommodate you...I might still back you up if it's something that was agreed to at the outset of the relationship, as a known and agreed to "limit or boundary" issue. However, if none of this is true and it's simply that you have a religious belief that you are forcing him to fall into accordance with, against what he truly wants...to be called Master. Then I say that is "topping from the bottom" and because it's such a serious issue, the self-identity of your Dom. as Master over you...I personally would end the relationship over it. This is why religion (and a lot of other issues) is such a tricky issue to find agreement or Shared Mutually Reality with, if one person has vastly different beliefs than the other.

In the end, I really hope this is a non-issue between the two of you because there are so many more immediate or tangible issues like- health, children, family, work and finances to worry about.

Whiplash

He doesn't care to be called Master either. If it was something he wanted then I'd be open to talk about it, but he understands and prefers Sir anyway, so it works. :-)

(in reply to WhipLash803)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 9/17/2008 11:31:26 PM

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i have been with my Sir..for over a year and a half now...most of the time i refer to Him by His given name...everybody lives their lives how they want to live them...its all about the respect level given...no matter how you address your Dom

< Message edited by Calikitty2483 -- 9/17/2008 11:33:48 PM >

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: Your thoughts on a sub not calling you Master - 9/18/2008 12:00:04 AM

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A sub should address the Dom in whatever manner HE desires! If she can not (for any reason) do so, then they simply are not compatible.
If my name is Jim, why should someone call me Ralph-just becasue they want to?

(in reply to Sandyshores29718)

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