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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/14/2008 8:49:02 PM   
kidwithknife


Posts: 193
Joined: 9/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subbysubsubsub
What's bolded is a point already made in my previous post that was in response to LuckyAlbatross.  No one can be sure of his intentions, which is why I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he had good intentions. 


Ok, taking that as given for the sake of argument, surely that doesn't alter the fact that the post in question was banal and pompous?

quote:

But rather than offer constructive criticism, many (if not most) made personal attacks and statements that would make them guilty of the very thing they were accusing the OP of doing.   It seemed very hypocritical.


Most of the heaviest attacks took place after the OP had thrown a hissy fit about not being taken seriously enough.  (On top of that, for constructive criticism to be worthwhile, there needs to be enough of value there in the first place.  I'm not convinced there was here). 

Also, couldn't it equally be said that actually providing the OP with the constructive criticism you advocate would have been more productive than concentrating on the responses where you dislike the tone?

quote:

Original: OttersSwim

The OP should have read the forum first and understood this, and then posted a "Hello" and been a little deferential as he worked to fit himself into the community.  It is simple and very common human dynamics understood and practiced by millions worldwide.


On the other hand, bollocks.

To expand somewhat, I obviously have little to no sympathy for the OP.  But that's because of the quality of his contribution.  Not because he's new.  But apart from that, the only bit of what you say there I agree with is the "Lurk Moar".  (As I believe the young people say).  It's generally sensible to get at least a basic understanding of a forum's atmosphere before diving in.

Obviously, I've only recently started posting.  And I didn't post a hello thread because I can never see the point.  If anyone wants to know more about me they can read my profile and/or ask me.

And as for being deferential...  What, seriously?  You're suggesting I should judge people on their postcounts first and foremost?  Quite honestly, anyone who writes off what I have to say because I'm new (as opposed to because I'm an overly verbose gobshite with an overblown sense of his own importance, which is fair comment) isn't likely to be someone who's opinion matters to me in the first place.  I'm afraid that I've no more time for that than the concept people should "go easy" on me simply because I'm new.

I might be the new kid in the class.  But I'm afraid I wasn't planning to give people candy to make them like me.







(in reply to subbysubsubsub)
Profile   Post #: 261
RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/14/2008 8:53:01 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
It's a frickin' BDSM forum...this isn't Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

OMG I need to steal that, can I please?


Yes 



Hahahaha!  You know something, I like you already. ;)

< Message edited by BKSir -- 9/14/2008 8:56:07 PM >

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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/14/2008 9:31:53 PM   
subbysubsubsub


Posts: 41
Joined: 8/17/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kidwithknife

quote:

ORIGINAL: subbysubsubsub
What's bolded is a point already made in my previous post that was in response to LuckyAlbatross.  No one can be sure of his intentions, which is why I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he had good intentions. 


Ok, taking that as given for the sake of argument, surely that doesn't alter the fact that the post in question was banal and pompous?



I'm not arguing nor have I ever argued that the post couldn't be taken that way.  I did state that his post made sweeping assumptions and contained grammatical errors (it's in my previous post).  But what I wanted to point out was the hypocrisy of many of the posters.    

quote:

ORIGINAL: kidwithknife

quote:

ORIGINAL: subbysubsubsub

But rather than offer constructive criticism, many (if not most) made personal attacks and statements that would make them guilty of the very thing they were accusing the OP of doing.   It seemed very hypocritical.


Most of the heaviest attacks took place after the OP had thrown a hissy fit about not being taken seriously enough.  (On top of that, for constructive criticism to be worthwhile, there needs to be enough of value there in the first place.  I'm not convinced there was here). 



I don't see the relevance of whether it was a "heavy" attack or not.  Any attack is an attack that immediately put the OP on the defensive regardless of its intensity.  Maybe he wouldn't have thrown a "hissy fit" had he not been responded to in that way.  Who knows?  He never really got that chance now did he?  And it's also curious how the posters attacked the OP for "attacking back" to the poster's previous attacks.  Hmm...the irony. 

It's also my belief that the OP posted with good intentions, i.e., he never intended to insult this many people to this magnitude.  Whereas there's very little doubt in my mind that many of the posters who responded, did so with the purposeful intent to insult. 

As for your claim that there wasn't enough of value to offer constructive criticism, I completely disagree.  I'm sure you know that constructive criticism is any form of feedback (polite) geared towards improving the original work.  Can you really not think of anyway to offer polite suggestions for improvement??!!  C'mon!  Tons of criticism was offered.  What would happen if you took a valid criticism, took out all the name-calling, and added a please at the end?  Voila! Constructive criticism!!  It's not that hard people.   

quote:

ORIGINAL: kidwithknife

Also, couldn't it equally be said that actually providing the OP with the constructive criticism you advocate would have been more productive than concentrating on the responses where you dislike the tone?



I don't believe the former would have been more productive than the latter.  I think in general, the latter is in more need of constructive criticism based on what my previous posts have said. 

< Message edited by subbysubsubsub -- 9/14/2008 9:40:41 PM >

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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 12:23:12 AM   
angelslave77


Posts: 478
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		Subby you keep pointing out that other posters are making assumptions about the OP's intentions but in  your defense of him arent you doing the very same thing, you dont know his intentions anymore than any of us.  Or do you? *cue twilight zone music*


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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 1:32:26 AM   
protective1


Posts: 4
Joined: 10/1/2005
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is it then the group consensus that the only test is did the sub/slave submit
and give power to the master
If so anything the master does is acceptable and there are no inherent or implied responsibility of the master back to the slave?
I seek clarification, I seek to understand, the point of view of the popular consensus


(in reply to OttersSwim)
Profile   Post #: 265
RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 6:13:11 AM   
rookey


Posts: 100
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDragon68
To all subs, you really need to read this and understand this.
The first goal of any Dom/domme is to watch out for your safety and health. If they tell you it isnt, walk away.

Thank you for correcting my previously inaccurate understanding.  I was under the impression that I was the one with the primary responsibility for my own safety and well being.  Nice to know I can dump all this hassle on someone else, i.e. a domme. 

The pilot who broke the sound barrier once said. 'the best way to fly safe is to make sure you know what you're doing'.

I believe both Dommes/Doms and subs have a similar responsibility in equal measure.  Subs should at least think with the head on top of their shoulders and not the one between their legs, when apprasing any possible Domme. 

quote:


There is a fine line b/w bdsm and abuse.

This I would genuinely have to agree with.

quote:


It doesn't matter if you are a slave or a sub, you still have the right to say NO at anytime you think you are in a dangereous situation.

Both parties have the right to say no.  Also perhaps on some occasions an obiligation to say no to something inappropriate or illegal. 

quote:


Remember, your submission is a gift to your Dom/domme. It can be taken back.

I've come to view submission not as a gift, but as something to be traded for in exchange for dominance.  A swap if you will between consenting, and responsible, adults.

_____________________________



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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 6:45:35 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

At least that's better than Ikea. With Ikea, all you get is a diagram showing piece A being slid into piece B.


If people can't insert piece A into piece B without a diagram, they're in trouble.


Which it's always best to go to Homo Depot. The men there are always willing to help!



LMAO!!!!!!! i will never look at Home Depot the same way again! Bear you rock!
 
quote:

 Original: RedMagic1
Correte por papi

"Come for daddy," in Spanish.  Emphasis is on the first syllable, like KOR-e-te.  Roll the r's.  Use of "vuelve" is not correct.

Just wanted to provide an example of a dom giving actual useful BDSM advice on a public forum.  I've already received emails thanking me for it, just before I hit the "OK" button, so my evening is complete.


Thankyou! This will be very helpful on this side of the kneel - i would hate to get spanked for not following instructions!
 
And as far as learning something about goats and sheep...never knew about "hardware disease"...very helpful!
 
quote:

 Original: Raechard
In an unrelated search for stuffed goats to prove the point not all goats are animated I stumbled upon this:

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/play/slideshow.php?feature=2004%2f10%2f22_combsm_taxidermists&slide=1

The end


Puts a new spin on "Honey, we are trying something new for dinner - goatfish"!
 
quote:

  Original: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild



quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

How come no one ever comes here to warn people about sirsholly's cooking?  I've heard it was pretty bad, and that sometimes the fire department gets involved.  Ya know, innocent people could be hurt and all...... 


If I can quote you, I'd be more that happy to post a warning about holly's cooking!




shup

i just c-mailed the OP an invitation to dinner....




LMAO!!!!!!!!!!! If that doesn't work, send him here and i can finish the job...my cooking comes with survival warnings as well
 
Now to the OP who i agree will most likely not return and as Mod 16 has posted a non-headed warning on this thread, i will stay on topic...
 
i don't claim to know your intentions for starting this thread but it does come off as being a bit self-serving disguised as helpful info. However, i do know there are some absolutely clueless new submissives out there completely devoid of common sense and self-preservation and i do hope your thread helped them.
 
i also think the path the thread took will help them MORE - because hopefully it will show them that "true subs" use their brains, have a sense of humor and aren't ashamed of eating goat...or sucking it
 
It seems like the real danger here is with holly's and my cooking~
 
Perhaps a warning post for Dominants would be a better public service...

< Message edited by dawntreader -- 9/15/2008 6:47:33 AM >

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(in reply to beargonewild)
Profile   Post #: 267
RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 7:20:29 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14413
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: protective1


is it then the group consensus that the only test is did the sub/slave submit
and give power to the master
You're giving one scenario. In the BDSM D/s M/s world, there are many different variations. Some people aren't in committed relationships and play casually. In that scenarion, the "power" doesn't exist beyond the scene.


quote:

If so anything the master does is acceptable and there are no inherent or implied responsibility of the master back to the slave?
Ultimately, my safety is my responsibility. If a scene is going too far, it's my responsibility to let the "D" type know and if neccessary, stop the scene.



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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 8:01:05 AM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I think I am gonna get into the  " high end" goat business.

After all what self respecting dominant would shove just any old goat down his slaves throat?

The Best slaves, deserve the Finest goats

Jeff
(Purveyor of Fine Goats for over 70 years)
You know you're a theology student when...

a thread about goats in a bondage forum leads you to thinking about Old Testament references to sacrifices.

(Sorry, but that has now been on my mind for at least 2 days, I felt compelled to share.)

(And, note, that, if you wish to use "blemished" goats in your kink, this is absolutly fine and in no way inferior to those who inisit on the "unblemished" goat as stipulated in Leviticus.)

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Profile   Post #: 269
RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 8:13:44 AM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline 		And, my darling Jerry, please apply common-sense.

*Most* things are ok as long as there is consent.

Some people (such as 15 year olds, slaves, the mentally not quite all there) are judged incapable of giving consent, either because they are judged not capable of understanding it/the consequences (cases a and c) or because they do not have autonomy of their own body (case b).  And, of course, I'm referring to sexual acts over here.

No-one, in the UK, is legally allowed to consent to a S&M scenario of any kind.  Since the Spanner Case, it is possible to be convicted for "aiding an abetting an offense/assault against yourself" so even the bottoms get prosecuted.

That said, in the wonderful world of kink, we consider a mentally sound adult who possesses autonomy of their own body capable of giving consent to activities of the S&M variety.

Someone who signs themselves up for "being eaten" probably doesn't fall completely under the "mentally sound" category.  So, erm, a) no consent there and b) use common sense... some things just aren't ok c) contrary to the OP "things that are not okay" does not include "eating shit".

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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 8:30:13 AM   
kidwithknife


Posts: 193
Joined: 9/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JerryFrankster

So is it ok to do anything as long as there is consent?

Consider the Brandes-Meiwes cannibalism case:


That's actually a really difficult one for me.  Emotionally, it's grotesque.  But intellectually I'm not sure I can muster an effective argument against it, considering my general position on the issue of consenting to harm.  If I oppose this, how does that square with my support for consensual euthanasia?  And where do we draw the line?  If we accept the concept that people should be protected from themselves on this extreme issue, how do we then argue against that same principle in this kind of case- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Spanner



< Message edited by kidwithknife -- 9/15/2008 8:31:48 AM >

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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 4:56:26 PM   
kidwithknife


Posts: 193
Joined: 9/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan
I'm just then going on an assumption that certain things are so out there you have to question the sanity of the person consenting to them, and so whether they can consent at all.
Which is valid.

But then we have the problem of who defines which activities can be seen as de facto evidence of being unfit to give consent.  The history of the psychiatristisation (is that a word?) of 'deviancy' is quite obviously a pretty scary one.

On the other hand, I think we run into problems either way.  If we're going to take consent as the deciding factor, it has ramifications on far more common issues than this kind of thing. 

Can a heroin addict give consent for their dealer to inject them with smack?  Does it depend on whether they're currently under the effects of drugs?

How about football hooligans?  I'd be hard pressed to seriously argue that they're in any way not willing and stable participants.  Assuming that no bystander is put at risk, should they be free to meet up for a knife fight after the match?

And there are differences in my head.  But I'm not sure they have any more meaning then being either a) stuff that I can understand intellectually, even if not my thing or b) stuff where I simply can't grasp the mentality involved.  And I'm not convinced my gut instinct is a sound base for laws.

As you can probably tell, I'm conflicted enough on this issue that it's not just that I change my mind from day to day.  I changed it several times while writing this post.

(in reply to IvyMorgan)
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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 6:54:56 PM   
JessieMe


Posts: 510
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

Also, in all the above cases, the person goes through the joys of a psych test to prove that they are capapble of making the decision, for themselves, that they understand the consequences and implecations, and are therefore able to give consent.



I just want to know if anyone can research whether or not goats can legally give consent to being eaten. 

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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 7:01:20 PM   
HornyToadsMI


Posts: 287
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		OMG, I missed it!  Thats what I get for sleeping!!! 

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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 7:03:29 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subbysubsubsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: kidwithknife

quote:

ORIGINAL: subbysubsubsub
What's bolded is a point already made in my previous post that was in response to LuckyAlbatross.  No one can be sure of his intentions, which is why I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he had good intentions. 


Ok, taking that as given for the sake of argument, surely that doesn't alter the fact that the post in question was banal and pompous?



I'm not arguing nor have I ever argued that the post couldn't be taken that way.  I did state that his post made sweeping assumptions and contained grammatical errors (it's in my previous post).  But what I wanted to point out was the hypocrisy of many of the posters.    

quote:

ORIGINAL: kidwithknife

quote:

ORIGINAL: subbysubsubsub

But rather than offer constructive criticism, many (if not most) made personal attacks and statements that would make them guilty of the very thing they were accusing the OP of doing.   It seemed very hypocritical.




Actually I think that showing someone in no uncertain terms that his condescension and sweeping assumptions are going to prevent him from making the audience of his remarks think as highly of him, as he apparently does himself, is constructive criticism. He swept it, highly pretentious and thinking so well of himself that he believed no one else here has any intelligence or experience. And he expected and desired to be applauded and sought after for this.

He learned in the most pointed of ways how much in error he is, and that should he still wish to be welcomed as a debator of topics, he would do far better to treat others with the same respect he demanded for himself.

It's up to him to decide if he can learn this lesson, that to have friends you must be a friend, to be respected you must give respect. The Golden Rule if you like, karma if you see it otherwise.

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Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 7:56:54 PM   
ramalamaDingDong


Posts: 34
Joined: 9/7/2008
Status: offline 		Hopefully he got over what ever it was that prompted the OP.

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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 9:29:30 PM   
Paulnz


Posts: 411
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

The fact is that eatting shit and drinking piss, while some find it gross, will not actually harm you (your body processed it once... it wont hurt to get processed again).





Only in relation to piss. Consuming your own shit is risky, as there are some bacteria which only exist in the bowel, and no other part of the body. Thus, it is possible to poison yourself with your own bodily waste.

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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/15/2008 9:51:32 PM   
Paulnz


Posts: 411
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JerryFrankster

So is it ok to do anything as long as there is consent?





Clearly not. Consider also ' duty of care '

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_of_care_in_English_law




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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/16/2008 5:51:50 AM   
seababy


Posts: 845
Joined: 6/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

Oh my lord, are we still talking about eating goat shit or whatever?




Just imagine they are like little chocolate MM's and they will go down a treat.

(in reply to BKSir)
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RE: Subs Be Aware - 9/16/2008 11:29:35 AM   
AlkemieJane


Posts: 19
Joined: 9/15/2008
Status: offline 		thank you very much for this!
my previous master crossed a few lines. fortunately, i had the sense to walk away from that relationship.
while i do agree that the sub/slave is responsible for themselves and have the absolute right to say no, i will have to add that some doms/masters can be misleading. you think you know someone, think they have your best interests at heart, but eventually you realize you're nothing but a toy to them- one that they are more than willing to break and toss aside.

(in reply to OttersSwim)
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