Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

The Illusion of Dominance & submission


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> The Illusion of Dominance & submission Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 8:21:46 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		He sits as far across from her as possible in the small hotel room. Staring at her from what passes for an over-sized comfy chair in a discount motor lodge he rests his elbows on the arms, holds a hand to his face and tells her to strip. Nervously she complies, her hands shaking as she looks down unbuttons her blouse and lets it drop from her shoulders.
 
"Look at me slut!"; and when their eyes catch he gestures and tells her to continue. She does, shaking more from her body's reaction to the chill of his words than from the cool air hitting her body getting more exposed by the moment.
 
Finally it's over. The experience of being physically naked before a man who, until that moment, she only knew from internet contact. "Your hands behind your head, elbows pointing to your side and keep your eyes on mine!"; he says still studying her from across the room. After two minutes, seeming like an hour to her, he tells her to turn around slowly. She looks at him, hoping to see a smile, but gets instead another request she takes as an order; "On your knees and crawl to me."
 
Down she goes, needing once again to be reminded to look at him when her mind was distracted by the variety of smells coated with Lysol coming from the well stained carpet. She finally gets to him. He raises her face to his with his finger. Feeling more naked in seeing him fully dressed, she provides a visual of the reference to a 'full body blush'.
 
Now kneeling at his feet she notices a black plastic bag. He pulls it out from behind him and tells her to look inside and pick out one item telling her it will be the first she feels. From the many items ranging from clothesline to their accompanying pegs, she picks a plastic ping-pong paddle, still with its 'Dollar Store' tag and hands it to him.
 
Seeing him patting his knee, she rises. He grabs her wrist pulling her down over his lap and tells her to count.
 
And so began their relationship...

Who was the dominant and who was the submissive in that story? Changing the genders of the characters; does it make a difference? Who's fantasy is fulfilled?

A - Dominant
B - submissive
C - Both
D - None of the above
E - Not enough information to determine.

Reading the various opinions on CM I'll doubt there will be a consensus, nor should there be one. The point is to think, about yourself, about projecting stereotypes, but most importantly about absolutism. What difference does it make? Maybe none - but maybe for some it will help them appreciate that a 'Columbus' route to their goal may exist. You can get to the 'Far East' by going west.

It's natural to personify and interject perspective into the portrayal of a relationship. Confirmed by the vision of the sensations we see, or see described in many cases, there is a projection and assignment of power. Ideas and concepts are not always absolute regardless of the nature of a relationship.

Viewing a masochist's desire to experience physical and emotional pain is not necessarily a view of 'submission'. A sadist, whipping an ass bloody, can be doing so while in total submission to the person bleeding as a result of his actions. The giving and receiving of sensations, physical or emotional, are not clear and definitive indicators of power.

This isn't about limits, hard or soft. It is not about trust. It's more basic, beyond the semantic and driven by the pragmatic. Submitting to a person who facilitates and creates scenarios where you are living out a fantasy, may not be dominance, but neither is it submission. Dominating a person under those conditions may provide satisfaction for sadistic desires and be very fun and fulfilling, but there should be an appreciation that some submission is involved in that dynamic.

Submission in its purest form involves turning your 'Likes' Dislikes' 'Hates' and 'Hard Limits' menu list from your profile upside-down. Dominance requires facilitating an avoidance into an expression of 'submission with a smile'. There is a 'gift' involved, but it shouldn't be an S/m version of the sexy nightie a husband gives to a wife in the hopes she'll wear it for his birthday. That's manipulation; nice, fun and healthy, but manipulation none the less.

There isn't and should not be a 'right' or 'wrong' implied; only appreciation. You can and should enjoy all this without consideration if you are 'one true' anything but happy. Go ahead, mock, rationalize, create 'what if' scenarios involving chain saws.

My question is basic and can be responded from the perspective of either side of the flogger. Are you capable of submitting, with pleasure, outside a scenario fulfilling a personal fantasy? As a Dominant, would you risk your partnership dominating a scene outside the comfort level of your partner? Ironically I think the easy answer to both those questions is yes. The hard part isn't the action and it isn't the sensation. It is focused on what becomes for most relationships the last test of trust. Can the submissive and the Dominant deal with the potential consequences of such an experience?

Dominance and submission starts out fulfilling personal fantasies. Living by the pragmatic definition of those words starts when the fantasy ends. Where that path leads can not be anticipated. What you are and where you are comfortable living in your submission and your dominance can not be scripted; because you really don't know what you are capable of, or if you are capable at all, until you actually try doing it outside your comfort level and/or fantasy.

Again, no 'dogma' or a 'way' - just thoughts for a Monday morning. What do you think?

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 9/22/2008 9:04:47 AM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 9:04:06 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
What do you think?

I probably should have handfuls of words to contribute to this, but I've decided to just contentedly absorb the thought process instead. At least for now.

I've started becoming a bit of a fan to your musings.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 9:44:53 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Are you capable of submitting, with pleasure, outside a scenario fulfilling a personal fantasy?


Absolutely. Both in play and in day to day existence. For instance, Sir always decides the course our scenes will take. I can say that most of the time there will be some aspect of the scene that will be enjoyable to me....something that I know that he incorporated because he knew I would find it enjoyable. On the flip side of that there are certain times that he will get me all bound to some apparatus and once he has me where he wants me he will lean in and whisper in my ear "Sorry babe but tonight's MY night". At that moment I know that there will not likely be anything that I am going to enjoy. But I can still submit to it with joy...my pleasure comes from knowing that he is enjoying it. I can look at him through my very real tears of anguish and have my heart filled upon seeing the fire in his eyes and the glow on his face.

Or as another example...I may have an afternoon or even a day that is free of plans. It doesn't happen often that I have a decent sized block of time "just for me" and I can get pretty excited about it when I do. So I may be tossing around all kinds of ways that I am looking forward to spending that time. A lunch with a girlfriend, maybe some shopping, a solitary hike in the woods or renting a chick flick and curling up on the couch to watch it. Most of the time Sir will encourage me to do things "just for me" when he knows I have such time available. Sometimes though....he will give me something to do instead. "You have free time this afternoon, I'd like you to steam clean the carpet". Thud, all those dreamy ways of spending my time come crashing down. I know I won't get any enjoyment out of the task....yet I also know that when Sir comes home and scans the carpet...I will take pleasure in his smile or nod of approval.

quote:

Dominance and submission starts out fulfilling personal fantasies. Living by the pragmatic definition of those words starts when the fantasy ends. Where that path leads can not be anticipated. What you are and where you are comfortable living in your submission and your dominance can not be scripted; because you really don't know what you are capable of, or if you are capable at all, until you actually try doing it outside your comfort level and/or fantasy.   


You are really spot on here. D/s relationships change over time just as vanilla ones do. The beginnings are always that time when each is trying to impress or win over the other...the time when each person is striving to do those things that they know the other person will like. That warm, fuzzy time when just being in each other's presence is almost overwhelming. Can't keep your hands off each other and can spend endless hours just staring at/into each other. I'm not saying that you can't or won't still do those things 5 years in...but when you do they will have a different depth and meaning. But the shinyness of it all won't be quite as bright after some time and will need some effort to keep polished. And you are right in that it is then that you begin to start to live the reality of the definition.

Someone on here a few weeks back asked a question that was something like 'is it submission if you are only expected to do things that you like?' or 'is it submission only when you are doing things you don't like? I don't remember the exact wording but you can get the gist of it. I would answer that it is submission when you are submitting as it comes...like it or not....day in and day out.

There are many who have stated that they "submit fully" to another over the course of a scene...over the course of a weekend...or that they are fully committed or owned by someone in just a matter of a few short weeks. I would say that they probably  ARE as "fully" whatever as those situations will permit. But they are not as "fully' whatever as they may be in a year....or in five...or in ten. But there is no way to explain that to them without sounding preachy or condescening until they actually do it. It's kind of like trying to explain what childbirth will feel like to a woman who has never had a child. The thought of it is usually quite different than the reality of it.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 9/22/2008 9:49:09 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 9:55:42 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Whatever mistoferin said because Im to lazy and word challenged to write that long a reply.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 11:29:15 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Putting myself into the woman's role, I view it as a top/bottom play only session which was negotiated beforehand over the internet and which fulfills hopefully both of them.

I don't see how you can submit in a vacuum, and since the story says this is their first meet, there hasn't been a chance to feel dominant or submissive.

Of course, this being me, I would have made sure he knew ahead of time that the surest way for me to say I wasn't feeling into it and had to stop would have been for him to appear angry instead of smiling. But that's me.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 12:14:53 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		Sherlock Holmes says:

They are both married and cheating, hence the hotel. 
This is the first time she has cheated, that is why she is nervous.
He is dominant, he is giving the commands.
She is submissive, she is obeying the commands.
He is a broke trailer trash poser from the internet, hence the Dollar Store equipment and cheap hotel with “Lysol odors & stained carpet”.
He is a noob posing as a Dom, hence the price tags still on the gear and plastic gear bag.
They are both really just kinsters using BDMS protocols, hence the slap & tickle gear list.
He is British, hence the OTK fetish.
/Just joking. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Great story, thanks for sharing this classic scenario.  Without being privy to any prior negotiations, this seems like a D/s first meet scenario using polite BDSM protocols.  He lets her pick but it isn’t her “negotiated” power because she only gets to choose what “will be the first she feels” used as the warm up.  He retains ultimate control in that she will eventual feel all that is in the bag. 

He is commanding and dominant and she is submissive and obedient.  I can’t see how anyone would derive anything different.  You wrote it well. 

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 12:36:14 PM   
TysGalilah


Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline 		 

C both = they are both dominant and submissive at that point
          yet acting out the roles which they perhaps have             preference   predisposition
He pulls something from the bag as tho' it IS his dominance in that bag..
She probably felt strange being told to "choose" ( that would have squicked me out frankly ) the item she wanted him to use...ack

The bag and its contents is the dominant in that scenario.


its a setting, a moment in time....an intent  but the truth and reality of the fantasy is not found in that black bag or dependant on the setting or a room ( or lack there of).

Its a beginning...with intent perhaps.
Time and life happening will be the true indicator who is in control and who is in submission.





_____________________________

galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 12:41:07 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TysGalilah
....C both = they are both dominant and submissive at that point.......

I thought I read this carefully.  Can you point out (quote) where Merc wrote her as being the dominant at any point?


_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to TysGalilah)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 2:40:24 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
What do you think?

I probably should have handfuls of words to contribute to this, but I've decided to just contentedly absorb the thought process instead. At least for now.

I've started becoming a bit of a fan to your musings.



That's certainly a better course of action then contributing to the irony of making judgements on the scenario when the point of the post was how fruitless and pointless it is to make those judgements!

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 3:28:27 PM   
masterforRT


Posts: 176
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline 		Cmon! This is online! 96% of it is illusion!

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 3:59:50 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Submission in its purest form involves turning your 'Likes' Dislikes' 'Hates' and 'Hard Limits' menu list from your profile upside-down. Dominance requires facilitating an avoidance into an expression of 'submission with a smile'.

I disagree with this.  First off- why is that more "pure" than another form?

And secondly, you likely do not desire that all of their likes become dislikes and all of their dislikes become likes.  And what if the master desires to have hard limits?  What if the master declares "You slave will NEVER do this"?  Does that mean that is less pure?  What if a master doesn't care about the subs attitude in any particular moment, as long as the task gets done well?

This sounds far too much like 'If you enjoy it, then it's not really submission" and I am completely against that.

quote:

Are you capable of submitting, with pleasure, outside a scenario fulfilling a personal fantasy? As a Dominant, would you risk your partnership dominating a scene outside the comfort level of your partner? Ironically I think the easy answer to both those questions is yes. The hard part isn't the action and it isn't the sensation. It is focused on what becomes for most relationships the last test of trust. Can the submissive and the Dominant deal with the potential consequences of such an experience?

As I always say "It's not about the actions, it's about the motivations and the intent"

quote:


Again, no 'dogma' or a 'way' - just thoughts for a Monday morning. What do you think?

Except for that "most purest" bit, it's a nice rehash and restatement that relationships are about more than kinky sessions and can be more rewarding if that's what resonates for you.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 4:10:48 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Mercnbeth asks:  My question is basic and can be responded from the perspective of either side of the flogger. Are you capable of submitting, with pleasure, outside a scenario fulfilling a personal fantasy? As a Dominant, would you risk your partnership dominating a scene outside the comfort level of your partner? Ironically I think the easy answer to both those questions is yes. The hard part isn't the action and it isn't the sensation. It is focused on what becomes for most relationships the last test of trust. Can the submissive and the Dominant deal with the potential consequences of such an experience? [/quote]

***It sounds like an easy question to answer Merc but for many, is it that easy?  Yes, for those of us on the D-side of the coin, we'd all like to say that we would risk our partnership by dominating outside the comfort level of our partner and those on the s-side would love to say they would submit outside of their personal comfort level.  But is that so?  Look at the number of threads where submissives come running because their dominant...not some wannabe or someone new but their dominant...forced them to go beyond their soft limit within a scene and the submissive wasn't "ready" for it or was in a "bad" headspace at the time and reacted wrongly and so they fought it or called their safeword and were upset that the dominant "didn't" understand.  Remember some of those so up in arms over the "Eroticism of a submissive..." thread who thought that everything should have been spelled out in this one scenario?  How many of those who posted these statements, or who did not post but felt the same way, do you suppose would state that scening is NOT all about the submissive's pleasure and that, indeed, the dominant should run the scene?  Take it outside the "scening" portion for a second:  how many times have you seen dominants state that submission is about yielding your will and that, sometimes, it isn't always going to mean yielding to something you want to yield to anyway?  How many submissives have you seen that agree with that statement and then come here and how many have you seen state that they agree with it but then begin to qualify it...if that is how it is all the time or most of the time or this percent of the time, etc., then I wouldn't go for it. 
Now, to go to the dominant side of the coin.  How many submissives have posted that one commonality they like to see among dominants is a sense of responsibility and a recognition that the submissive is human, not just a toy?  How many dominants agree with that and then, through their words anyway, show how often they see the toy vs. the human?  How many dominants will chide/console a poor submissive for becoming involved with a dominant that treats her too romantically/too brutally/too coldly/too emotionally/etc. and berate the unseen dominant?  And yet, many of these same dominants will complain about the submissive who is too clingy/needy/romantic/etc..  How many dominants want the responsibility and power they have as a dominant to be recognized and yet will run to the power and away from the responsibility?
Of course, much of the posturing takes place online and the real stuff is played out offline.  Many dominants come across as wise-ass and everyone knows they are being a wise-ass.  Many come across as hard-ass and may actually be that way or they may be a bit more accomodating in real-life. 
Contradiction in any of the above?  Maybe but the fact that much of the interaction here is "net" and the only way many can be seen is through their words, then it is bound to happen.  I guess I wonder more about how they are outside of here.***

Dominance and submission starts out fulfilling personal fantasies. Living by the pragmatic definition of those words starts when the fantasy ends. Where that path leads can not be anticipated. What you are and where you are comfortable living in your submission and your dominance can not be scripted; because you really don't know what you are capable of, or if you are capable at all, until you actually try doing it outside your comfort level and/or fantasy.

***Nicely said.  Too bad so many don't choose to remember that it isn't always fun and games and that when some say they want someone dominant, they mean someone who DOES take control wisely, with responsibility and accountability and that when someone says they want submission, they mean they want someone who gets that it is their will to be yielded, NOT their will to be yielded TO.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 4:28:52 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I am SO not touching this topic.

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 5:10:09 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		~~not really a response, more of a free association exercise~~
 
I have recently had a number of on line conversations with a man who has little experience but is interested in kink.  He defines himself as dominant yet says “ I want to do (insert various activities here) but only if it pleases the submissive and turns her on.”  I tell him he is a top, and do my best to assure him one is not better than the other but they are different.
 
He says, “If I give an order and she obeys, aren’t I dominant in that moment?”
 
I’ve been thinking on that ever since, pondering the concept that it boils down to the number of moments, or string of moments we choose to engage in wiitwd.  Part of me thinks maybe that it is too simplistic of a view, but then, how complicated does it really need to be?

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 5:22:23 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I disagree with this.  First off- why is that more "pure" than another form?

LA,
The word "pure" was in reference to definition and not as a comparative. 'Strict' or 'specific' would have conveyed the thought better.

With that in mind...
quote:

you likely do not desire that all of their likes become dislikes and all of their dislikes become likes. And what if the master desires to have hard limits?  What if the master declares "You slave will NEVER do this"?  Does that mean that is less pure?  
 I think, so far, the focus has been misplaced in the replies. I didn't want to make the discussion about any specific activity or sensation. Failing miserably, I'm on-board with the concept of 100% compatibility; it is bliss! However, besides getting beyond the stereotypes of, what is Dominant and what is submissive in observed activity; I was hoping to open a discussion about getting outside that comfort zone of 100% compatibility.

By the same token, I am not addressing 'limits' of either party. Specifically if a 'Master' says what a slave will not do represents the end of the discussion. Defining a relationship's limits within that "you will NEVER" statement falls outside my intent. I guess if 'NEVER' occurs they'll have to renegotiate, but I'm speaking where one of the parties, wanted or expected there to be a 'sometime'. Although having to pick a 'dog' in the fight, I'd be behind the side whose view is that a Master's limits define the boundaries of any 'no limits' slave.

quote:

What if a master doesn't care about the subs attitude in any particular moment, as long as the task gets done well?
Then who am I to care either - I don't. The confidence within the relationship should make any party to it laugh, or shrug with indifference about any outsider's concern about what they are doing.

On the other hand I happen to put a great deal of importance to attitude. I feel it represents the demarcation point of defining an activity 'pleasure' or 'work'. It doesn't speak of effort because effort can be the same in either case and is always an important. Applying the same amount of effort, I'd prefer, and selfishly require, that through whatever activity I'm conveyed an attitude of pleasure.

Why is easy and best conveyed by example. If you enjoyed Opera and your partner hated it the experience of Opera can be either pleasure or work. It is a given that the Dominant has the ability and authority to take the submissive to the performance. However, if while there the sub looks at his watch, fidgets in his seat, yawns, and makes no effort to hide they'd rather be at the Dentist; or the submissive takes the 'passive aggressive' approach and pastes a smile on his face, and after every Aria whispers an obviously feigned; "Did you enjoy that?" - Would you? Personally, that first trip encountering either dynamic, would be my last. In fact, that periodic desire which may be as infrequent as Halley's comet, would come to be considered in the same light as the aforementioned Dentist trip.

Going in, you've done all you can to educate, enlighten, share the subtle nuances, and try to convey how this is something you enjoy every so often and want to share. But, although you get constant positive feedback that its up to you, do you take the initiative and risk the potential negative consequences. As I see it the choice then becomes, do you go alone, do you try it once and hope for the best, or do you avoid it completely at the fear of a bad Night at the Opera could be the last night with the submissive?

Hopefully that better describes the scenario I had in mind. I think that by you injecting "attitude" into the equation its clarified further.  

One more thought; attitude is an important element to a shared experience. Maybe not as important in what you had in mind as a "task", but concerning a shared experience I feel it can be the difference between making the experience 'work' or 'pleasure'. I know I only want to share pleasure with my partners and do my best to make sure and avoid any experience resonating as 'work'. 

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 6:43:11 PM   
SoulRavager


Posts: 7
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		Again, as with any question of nosology, there isnt one answer.

I think of dominance and submission as places of power exchange, not sensation exchange. A lover can give all types of sensation, including pain, to another without there being any exchange of power.

So what marks that exchange?

I think real submission is only at the interface where the submissive would not do that action were they not requested to do it by the dominant; i.e. the submission really is only at the places limits are being pushed.

Because if the person would be doing that action anyway, how is that different from a vanilla kinky person having fun?

< Message edited by SoulRavager -- 9/22/2008 6:44:47 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/22/2008 10:18:02 PM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline 		Excellent post, in fact it got me to thinking and comparing some differences in a few of a past relationships.

At the risk of repeating myself, one word of advice I give to people is to find like minded partners.  The whole bit about becoming a mirror reflection of one another and such.

I actually was in a relationship, where she was highly adaptive, whatever interests, thoughts, views and opinions I had she adopted.  In many regards, this sort of bored me to death.  I knew she was being a chameleon, however she was sincere about it.  Her mindset was to focus upon becoming my slave and the best slave she could.   Since that was her goal, making changes was all part of the nature of it.

By Dom couple relationship was extremely different, she was anything but a chameleon.  However, we had a lot of common interests, tastes, smart ass sense of humor, loved playing practical jokes on people or fucking with people's minds.  We were like too crazy wicked teenagers up to no good.  Sure, her and I acted like kids at times.  We had fun, but we could get down and take serious matters as serious adults.  Communitcation, talking and debating, changing and growing together.  Ok, so this was not a D/s relationship, however D/s was totally avoided.  The thing is this, her and I had a lot in common.  Frankly we were mirror images of each other in many regards.  A Pair of Doms doing and living our crazy warped world and life together.  We sort of tortured and confused our vanilla minded friends.

Both these relationships being at opposite ends of the spectrum of sorts.  One being M/s and another being Dom couple.  Both of these relationships were peaceful and not confusing.  The Dynamics feel into place without a lot of grief and frustration and bullshit.

From my past experiences, I find that whenever I'm involved with somebody who's into "the lifestyle" or BDSM, that there is a higher awareness and regards to Relationship Dynamics, power and control.  It's amazing what can happen when two people who are conscious of these things get together.  Even more so when there is chemistry involved and you naturally get along together.

I'm sitting here thinking about some of the submissive girls I have dated, some of the crazy off the wall ones as well.  Trust me, I've always managed to find some out of the orinary girl to get hooked up with.   I tend to enjoy things a bit off the beaten path anyways, and when you add some kink to it.  Amazing.

My morals, ethics and core belief systems are the same regardless of whatever kind of relationship I'm in.  I'm pretty damn assertive, I will debate, command, or talk about things.   Giving orders or commands is not the only way one can influence or provoke thought or change in what is going on.

I tend to question if some guys get involved in this lifestyle, hoping to find some easy slave girl that will put up with their mindless, insecure bullshit, and follow their every breathing order and command.   None the less, these guys have this strange notion that slaves don't give a fuck about themselves or what a prospective Dom/Master/Owner is all about.

Submission is not something I go around trying to force out of anybody.  It's a process that sort of naturally happens in a course of events and interactions.  It takes time to build trust.   It's important for both the Dom and submissive to trust one another.  It's not a one sided coin.  Now, some people don't really care, they just jump into relationships head strong and quick.  Some people hate being alone and other endless list of motivations behind choices made in haste.  Not always the best thing to do.  Some people get lucky and it works out.   For many people it does not.

I've read way too many posts on this message board from people rushing into shit and getting burned, enough that it reaffirms my own personal point of view on this matter.   Mind you exceptions do and can happen.

Now in regards to stereotypes! LOL..  I have a slight maso streak, and it confuses people.   I'm going to bang out a pervy example of being a Maso Dom.

Suck my hot nasty cock bitch, oh yeah! Mmmmm...  Slap it with you hand now! Do it now (Taking tight hold of back of her hair).  Spit!  I want to feel your hot spit from that sluttly mouth of yours.  Fucking Spit!  Mmmmm..  Suck on my ball, I want to feel you suck them deep inside your mouth,  Be a good girl and dig your nails hard as you can into my thighs while you are sucking my Balls!  That's it!  Take them inside that hot little fucking dirty mouth of yours!  Dig those nails!  (Pulling on hair, slapping across the face cheek)..  You'd better give it to me rough else I'm going shove my cock up your nose and piss!  I think your holding back on me, (grabbing nipple between fingers pinching down hard) Are you holding out on me you flithly little whore?  You better fucking dig those nails into my skin bitch.

This is just a quick example of me forcing somebody to inflict a little pain upon me during play!  Yet, so many times when I mention that I have a maso streak some people have this twisted notion that I'm a switch.   Now insert a flogger into play, where I'm using it on them, then having a hold of them forcing them to use it on me.   Thank God, Leashes can be so much fun!  Hook one on a collar run it down her back, and between the legs.  Nice tugging incentive to feel that fucking flogger hit my back.   It suprises me the limited imagination and ability people have to fully comprehend things.

Hell, I'll make joking threats about having to shove my foot up a twat and using them for a snow shoe unless they do it.  Even might threaten to use their pussy for a bottle opener and such.   I really can say some very vulgar, nasty and dirty shit at times.  A lot of it is said jokingly and in a somewhat loving fashion too.   Trust me, I'm not the person one wants to be with if you are sensitive to such vulgar comments, remarks and such.   I'm not vulgar like this 24/7,  I just have my moments.

I'm a human being will a full range of feelings, thoughts and I do give a damn about what goes on in life.  I'm not all BDSM 24/7.    Interests in other things, and I think those things are just as important as kink, sex and the relationships structure itself.

I don't know if D/s is really an illusion.  I can tell if the person with me is into something or not.  I think it would be an illusion if I pretended they were when they were not.  I won't force somebody to lie to me, and tell me bullshit I want to hear.  I tend to insist upon hearing the truth.  The truth is always more interesting to deal with. 

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/23/2008 12:40:13 AM   
HeidiAnn


Posts: 113
Joined: 12/16/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Mercnbeth,

an interesting topic. :)

Truly submitting into a real relationship instead of a fantasy is really hard for me. For me, personally, absolutes are impossible to keep in a relationship. Our dynamics are forming all the time and part of that is that they are forming around the "real us." There are sides of me that are strong and atleast stubborn if not dominant. And there are sides to Her that are more sensitive, sometimes insecure and there are moments when She needs to be able feel small. At times i need to be the strong one and take the lead. That for me is hard to endure sometimes, but that is part of the whole for me. To face the real Her and to submit to this relationship - that is what submission ultimately is about for me.

Sincerely,
heidi

< Message edited by HeidiAnn -- 9/23/2008 12:41:24 AM >

_____________________________

"The most difficult thing is trying not to forget who you really want to be." - Nong Toom

(in reply to WhiplashSmile2)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/23/2008 2:57:52 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Merc, well, I’ll give you an absolute. The one actually dominant is the one who can control his/her desires more than the other. This could be the Dom or the submissive. And remember the closer one comes to fulfilling desires without reaching the goal, the more he/she is going to reach.

That’s why a Dom should stay in control and give the submissive the submission she desires. It wouldn’t appear Domly for him to cum all over himself before he could get the restraints in place.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The Illusion of Dominance & submission - 9/23/2008 3:50:17 AM   
TysGalilah


Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: TysGalilah
....C both = they are both dominant and submissive at that point.......

I thought I read this carefully.  Can you point out (quote) where Merc wrote her as being the dominant at any point?


 
I guess what made me think that way was when he "put" her in the position of choosing the "toy" she wanted used on her.
 
also,
  at this point in there experience and relationship/role, she would still be holding onto much of her control.  Still building trust, she may be giving control or surrendering in the moment ( ie playtime ) much like a bottom would ?
   but thats not submission ( yet ) as I think Merc was asking about.
 
make any sense?

_____________________________

galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> The Illusion of Dominance & submission Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.188