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RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/22/2006 2:31:29 PM

Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

I think you'll appreciate this John... My flatmate, male, kinky but not submissive, was told upon coming home a section of lights were out in the lounge through to the kitchen... minutes later he's checking the circuit board for dodgy fuses and moments later is climbing a chair to change a lightbulb...turning to me from on high he said "what would you women do with out a man around the house?" , I replied, "do it ourselves", to which he replies so "why aren't you up here doing this??", quick as a wit, I replied "because you are" ;)

Then I suggested that we thought it would be nice to give him something manly to do like changing a lightbulb or something cause he is in a house full of estrogen and we know he needs these moments like these to embrace his testosterone self ;)

Quite the comical exchange, but I nearly bit my tongue off when I found myself about to say "and I'll do women's stuff and make you a nice cup of tea!", then thought better of it, cause he'd never let me live that down if that accidentally fell out of my mouth lol.

I didn't have the heart to tell him me and a friend had already checked the fuses and found nothing wrong, but figured given he has done a number of trades he might know a bit more about electricity than us two :) alas no... we're still waiting for the electrician!

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

(in reply to JohnWarren)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/22/2006 2:59:38 PM

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

I think you'll appreciate this John...

I do [laugh]

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to Jasmyn)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/23/2006 6:11:58 AM

MsSonnetMarwood

Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

MsSonnetMarwood wrote:

"So when dating and courting a lifestyle Domme, you don't think it appropriate to take her out for drinks, dinner, buy her flowers, since that injects money/goods into the equation?"

What I think is that if anyone who should be buying drinks, dinner and gifts it ought to be the dominant. That's the problem with these scam artists they want all the power that goes with be a dominant but aren't willing to take on any of the responsibilities.

"Would you really get far dating a vanilla woman if you took this attitude? I don't think I ever went out on a vanilla date where the gent didn't pay or occasionally buy me small gifts."

A dominant should take on the responsibilities of being a dominant. If you want all the vanilla stuff then find yourself a master.

"If she's seeking a service sub who will run errands for you, then that's wrong as well since that's inserting services?

The seeking of a service sub, as know as a mark, is the epitome of evidence of being a scam artist.

"I can't say I'd spend much time with such an individual who expected to do nothing for me"

If feel the same way obout this scam artist dommes. They do as little as they can get away with and try to extract as much as they can in the form of money, gifts and/or service.

Interesting. In a nutshell, you feel that if a Domme expects anything, she's a scam artist and out for your money. In my experience, those so paranoid (whch is the correct word here) about women being out for their money, don't actually have any.

I'm not interested in being dependant financially on a sub, but on the flip side, I'm not going to have him being dependant on me either.

Over the last 12 years or so, I've spent literally thousands of dollars of my own money on everything BDSM related, ranging from books (hi John!), to lectures, to weekend conferences, to group & club memberships, to toys (and more toys), to fetish wear (and even more toys). There is no dollar measure on how much I've invested of my time and self into this.

If I were "in this" for the money, I'm clearly going about it the wrong way.

I don't begrudge having shelled out this kind of money. Truly. I'm a better (not bitter) person for having invested myself in learning more about this lifestyle. I truly enjoy what I do.

However, to be called a "scam artist" because I expect basic date etiquette and a little show of appreciation from a submissive? As if my goal of spending $10,000+ was designed to get guys to take me out and spend $100 on dinner.

Ironic, really.

< Message edited by MsSonnetMarwood -- 1/23/2006 7:02:22 AM >

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to lokisgodhi)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/23/2006 6:56:02 AM

Posts: 1
Joined: 1/22/2006
Status: offline

::giving MsSonnetMarwood a standing ovation::

BRAVO

(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/23/2006 2:18:19 PM

Posts: 26
Joined: 7/11/2005
Status: offline

*gigglin* U guys tickle me!

I'm really sorry to say this, but in order to see Me.. I expect to be tributed
then again, I have a GiNORMOUS sense of self worth...lol

I'm no pro. At ALL. I am however, a Domme that IS fairly knowledgeable about my chosen craft AND constantly expanding my knowledge. Any submissive I choose is privy to my learning.

and yes, I consider dinner, drinks gifts AND service all forms of tribute.

I just want to know when
"Pro" Domme
and
'Lifestyle" Domme

started meaning the same thing.....

_____________________________

Build a man a fire and you keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life... lol

http://360.yahoo.com/mistrezztanya

(in reply to MichMasochist)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/23/2006 4:11:18 PM

Posts: 382
Joined: 12/28/2005
Status: offline

OK, i just have to ask ...

Please remember that i am a virtually a newbie, and have not invested in any flame retardant gear yet. This is a serious question ...

Why exactly would a Dominant Woman wish a submissive man to pay for dinner on a date?

The concept did make perfect sense to me, until i thought of myself as a Dom, taking a little sub girl to dinner. At no time would i want her to pay, and would most likely look at the concept of her paying with contempt. (i mean, who exactly does she think she is anyway?)

In my past vanilla relationships, i have always considered it my place to pay, and only ever gave in for the sake of those bent on a sign of "equality." (which probably was more a sign of "you are not fucking me tonight"

)

So it would seem to me that a Dominant Woman, technically, and power-exchange wise, would have no need for my petty attempt/desire at paying for her dinner. (That said, i would eventually expect her to own and control all that i have and may ever produce

) i mean as Her submissive, is it not She who is taking me on this date anyway?

seaturtle50

(in reply to michaelGA)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/23/2006 4:40:11 PM

MsSonnetMarwood

Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

OK, i just have to ask ...

Please remember that i am a virtually a newbie, and have not invested in any flame retardant gear yet. This is a serious question ...

Why exactly would a Dominant Woman wish a submissive man to pay for dinner on a date?

The concept did make perfect sense to me, until i thought of myself as a Dom, taking a little sub girl to dinner. At no time would i want her to pay, and would most likely look at the concept of her paying with contempt. (i mean, who exactly does she think she is anyway?)

In my past vanilla relationships, i have always considered it my place to pay, and only ever gave in for the sake of those bent on a sign of "equality." (which probably was more a sign of "you are not fucking me tonight" )

So it would seem to me that a Dominant Woman, technically, and power-exchange wise, would have no need for my petty attempt/desire at paying for her dinner. (That said, i would eventually expect her to own and control all that i have and may ever produce ) i mean as Her submissive, is it not She who is taking me on this date anyway?

Because I'm a woman as well as a dominant. Never forget that. As a woman and a dominant, I expect to be courted by a gentleman who wants my attention and favor. I expect a male to pursue me. I expect him to ask me out on a date. Not up to that? Not a problem - plenty of others are.

Being submissive doesn't let you off the hook for making an effort to capture my attention. On the contrary, you are in a position to have to put even MORE effort into it because you guys outnumber the available dommes substantially.

See above for post regarding my personal financial investment in the lifestyle. You might also want to look up an essay online called "Courtship of a Dominant Woman".

I accept and have no problem with the fact that I provide the technical knowledge, the guidance, heck, even the phenomenal toybag. But buy you dinner as well? Ahh no.

< Message edited by MsSonnetMarwood -- 1/23/2006 4:43:44 PM >

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to seaturtle50)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/23/2006 6:44:23 PM

Posts: 382
Joined: 12/28/2005
Status: offline

Ouch, oh, ouch ... with all due respect ... i said i have no flameproofness.

Please, kind MsSonnetMarwood, do not suppose You know my own position in this regard, as i have not stated it. i was merely asking a question, still i do thank You for Your kind insights.

So if i am understanding You correctly, You prefer traditional gender "role" types during "courting" and male submissiveness ... um, i still don’t understand Ma'am.

quote:

Not up to that? Not a problem - plenty of others are.

Yes, it does take all type of cars to fill up the thruway. Which is a very good thing.

quote:

See above for post regarding my personal financial investment in the lifestyle

Yes, Ma'am i did read that and it is a considerable investment. And You alone now own those significant assets, to control and use as You see fit, according to Your own whim. As it is with any investment one chooses to make in/for oneself.

quote:

Being submissive doesn't let you off the hook for making an effort to capture my attention. On the contrary, you are in a position to have to put even MORE effort into it because you guys outnumber the available Dommes substantially

On the contrary, i am not. As there is only one me, and that one is rather unusual.

Even though i have only been here <read lifestyle> a very short time, i can already tell that the gifts that i have to offer are essentially, rare. As a truly beautiful Woman is rare. <speaking more to inner beauty, grace, and strength> Since i recognize this rarity in myself, and know for a fact that i am most unlike the "you guys" in Your reference above, i see that i need only be myself.

That said - i humbly ask that You consider again that i have not stated my own ideals in this regard. i have merely asked a question. One that i seek an understanding to.

i notice for example that when i go to dinner with my Dad, he ALWAYS insists on paying. Even though i myself am an adult man, and quite capable of paying myself, and would enjoy treating him to a meal. We are already in a Dad/son relationship and i do not need to "court" him as a father. Yet, i can see that it is very much a control <likely a power> thing to him. Somehow to him, it is his duty, or responsibility to pay. Somehow to him i am not qualified to pay.

In some way - this is a part of the "structure" of our overall relationship.

I only mention this as it speaks specifically to the power exchange aspect in a relationship, as in my question. My Father is in fact, being Dominant over me, and i submissive in allowing him to pay <Damn, i hope this does not signal any Freudian teachings> It even feels that way, if i bother to "feel" my feelings at the time. So ... in a D/s relationship, why would i not feel empowered by paying (or even more accurately - by being expected to pay) as the submissive male?

i suppose i am not asking about the "right or wrong" of my paying, which is only the face of the question at best. Rather, i seek to understand the empowered - submissive roles and feelings to both the Domme Woman and submissive male while on a date, courting or not (but i would say of most importance in the very early stages, so especially when courting).

i am capable of pursuing, and dating, and courting. As a real live romantic this is a rather advanced part of my skillset. I have done this my entire vanilla life. it does not add a single thing to my submissiveness, in any meaningful way. (i am trying to say it does not help me to understand my submissive place in things, which is a large part of why i am seeking to court a Domme in the first place).

Note: if You think my post is in any way is about the money - You cannot hear me.

st50

(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/23/2006 8:14:13 PM

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mitsu
Money is not my primary concern, but it does help me pay for my studies, which are very important for me.

Secondary maybe?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistressravyn
I am glad to see someone other than Myself was offended by this "cloudboy".
the men and women who choose to serve Me are required to divulge all of their interests, fetishes, fantasies AND their limits before I even begin sessions with them.

No likeeeee experience no comeee backeeee good thinking

quote:

ORIGINAL: mitsu
Yes, s/m is sexual, and although there are legal definitions of sex, we all know that they do not encompass the vast range of objects and activities that bring sexual feelings to different people. I think that I can speak for many pro doms when I say that I don't consider myself a whore.

So it is sex then?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kc692

quote:

ORIGINAL: McWhips

Technically speaking, asking money in exchange for sexual services is prostitution.

I have not looked at the forums for a little while, and when I look, some of the same people are still on the same subject...I have not read ahead, so this is probably answered, but since when is it assumed or expected that Pro Dommes give sexual services?

Mitsu said it is sexual.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: McWhips

Technically speaking, asking money in exchange for sexual services is prostitution.

Since professional domination is legal in areas where prostitution is illegal, this means it's not prostitution.

What I was saying was that the law makes a clear distinction that the person I was replying to did not.

War is legal once congress declares it, therefore its not murder?
Have ethics or morals and law ever shared the same bed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos
There simply IS no problem with it, other than what some "highly moral" individuals perceive as a problem.

We all exchange and receive tributes, gifts and money in our romantic/sexual/whatever interactions. I don't see what we do as "prostitution" at all, from either side of the fence.

Many people cant taste the difference between different wines either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDove
I dont feel I cater to my slaves in the least

They come to me because I am a Domme and they wish to serve me if they are there for any other reason....
Dark Goddess

You arent a pro yet
Maybe they do now

quote:

ORIGINAL: Foibey
Personally it'd seem pretty clear to me that a large number (the vast majority I'd guess) of clients of professional doms are handing over cash because they get off sexually on what is going on - on some level, a sexual service is being bought.

A whole load of other ones are doing it because it's a job they love and they're in a situation where they can do it.

hook·er 2 (hkr)
n.
1. One that hooks.
2. Slang A prostitute.

pros·ti·tute (prst-tt, -tyt) KEY NOUN:
1) One who solicits and accepts payment for sex acts.
2) One who sells one's abilities, talent, or name for an unworthy purpose.

TRANSITIVE VERB:
pros·ti·tut·ed , pros·ti·tut·ing , pros·ti·tutes
1) To offer (oneself or another) for sexual hire.
2) To sell (oneself or one's talent, for example) for an unworthy purpose.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition.
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by the Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Prostitutes? here?

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
They can charge a premium because their skill level is that high.
Akasha

are you sure we are talking about skill here?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadameDahlia
What about someone dying of starvation... gradually wasting away, painfully dying? That's fairly harsh.

Thats not depressing?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
I recall a quote from one of Stanley Marcus' books. "High price is no indication of quality, but the best is never cheap."

i beg to differ

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexySwitch42
Actually I believe the rules of this website say that no one should be asking for money, so why do so many females get away with asking for money at this website?

Maybe its a pro female domme owned site?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
You don't see men asking for money, but you see men asking for free service all of the time, which to me is no less worthy than money. M

True, what business gives out free service?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tasha_tart

"OMG...it's so unfair...she's asking for money...
Tasha

Maybe they just feel discriminated against because they cannot advertize their businesses for free on CM like the pro dommes do?

i personally could use some free advertizing for my biz too, but i have a cock, shuckee gee.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
most importantly, you wont attract a dominant woman, who can have her pick of vanilla or kinky men; I've personally never met a man who would turn down a woman who can turn him on/out in the bedroom. M

Do you really know a dominant woman who would pick a nilla man?
i have turned down several. Unfortunately.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
It's much easier to "kink" a vanilla guy who is a great fit socially/romantically/emotionally than it is to "change" a kinky sub who doesn't possess the right qualities for a relationship.

And there are a hell of a lot of vanilla men out there who find the idea of being with a dominant woman to be exciting and refreshing because they want more equality and welcome the kink with open arms.
Akasha

Rumour has it they are all married.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCece2u
What really pisses Me off about some of the comments on the thread is that if this was a vanilla relationship there would be no problem with buying the female in question a gift.

Yes of course no strings attached gift!

quote:

ORIGINAL: MysticalPhoenix

Guys like getting sex for free (something for nothing).

Personally, I think vanilla guys should seek out and pay (either with cash or 'tribute' gifts') professionals or semi-pros for casual sex, as they used to have to do before the "sexual revolution".

But that's only my opinionated opinion. I don't engage in casual encounters of either the vanilla or the bdsm type. I learned that neither does anything for me, it just gets the guy's rocks off.
Phoenix

Of course!

Women dont!

From women seek men, some town rag

Jan-23 Help Me With My Fantasy
Jan-23 Cute brunette looking for role playing fun
Jan-23 NSA fun now
Jan-23 I love having a fun time. Stopping over in this town.
Jan-23 Up for a fling
Jan-22 Pleasure seekers wanted
Jan-22 Looking for a good time
Jan-22 Looking for older man 35+
Jan-22 I am playing with the idea of having an affair
Jan-21 Enough of those quick guys
Jan-21 are you into oral with a female rainwoman???
Jan-21 Woman looking for 12 inches and THICK
Jan-21 I luv having flings
Jan-21 gang bang girl
Jan-21 white lady sucks black men
Jan-20 Please help me out - I want you

Note: edited the 200 of the not so obvious in the title.

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos
Thinking you are in control of a Pro simply because you are paying is the swiftest way to get her boot up your ass.
Edited to say: (and not in a good way). ;)

Market News Flash: stock plummets as amayos corporation realizes sharp declines in sales

quote:

ORIGINAL: veronicaofML
a gift is one thing.......but $500 for an hour?
i never spent THAT much in a weekend........on a vanilla woman.
THAT's the DIFFERENCE...in MY eyes.

Mmm 336 glorious peaceful hours of walleye fishing at canada resort!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

Ironically, Marriage = long term prostitution is a traditional feminist viewpoint, slavery is also occasionally thrown around (I was raised by a rather hardline feminist at the height of the fight for the ERA amendment).

Boy the traditional feminists are tough broads, especially on the poor married women.

Maybe poor feminists?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lokisgodhi
I'd suggest that it's more like being baited and switched with the 'domme' claiming to be providing one thing when they're really delivering something else.

Now that went right over my head, how about you pros?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lokisgodhi

"It's hard to find compatible play partners. It's hard to find true dominants."

It's a lot harder because of the scam artists and frauds that characterize themselves as dommes.

i'm cured! Thats why i rarely write anyone on here any more. sadly i am finding more real and potential from yahoo messenger of all things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Very similar since being a nudist is much more than just walking around naked. They have a complex set of beliefs and behaviors that go far beyond not wearing clothing.

I'm naked a lot but I'll never be a nudist.

Free?

Hmm Pro nudist, now there's a concept.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

The irony is those of us that *aren't* are often approached as if we were (as happened, again, tonight - sigh.)

Now I know my profile does not say one single thing about tribute or "gifts" or "spoiling" or any other subliminal messaging, and I still get the "I'll be in town for a week and would like a session."

Well trained client?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
How about emailing and getting to know a Lady as a woman and human being, and if during the get to know phase M

Because they ignore your email?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood

quote:

Injecting money or goods and services

dating and courting

No difference?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lokisgodhi

A dominant should take on the responsibilities of being a dominant. If you want all the vanilla stuff then find yourself a master.

"I can't say I'd spend much time with such an individual who expected to do nothing for me"

If feel the same way obout this scam artist dommes. They do as little as they can get away with and try to extract as much as they can in the form of money, gifts and/or service.

Hmm responsibility, now there is a concept!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn
Quite the comical exchange, but I nearly bit my tongue off when I found myself about to say "and I'll do women's stuff and make you a nice cup of tea!"

THats cute!

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood

Interesting. In a nutshell, you feel that if a Domme expects anything, she's a scam artist and out for your money. In my experience, those so paranoid (whch is the correct word here) about women being out for their money, don't actually have any.

Nor a good attorney

quote:

ORIGINAL: MIstrezzTanya
I just want to know when
"Pro" Domme
and
'Lifestyle" Domme
started meaning the same thing.....

Creative advertizing?

quote:

ORIGINAL: seaturtle50
OK, i just have to ask ...

Why exactly would a Dominant Woman wish a submissive man to pay for dinner on a date?

seaturtle50

To be submissive?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood
I accept and have no problem with the fact that I provide the technical knowledge, the guidance, heck, even the phenomenal toybag. But buy you dinner as well? Ahh no.

Thanks for sharing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: McWhips
As far as women who expect the man to make more of a financial contribution to a relationship is concerned:

Its too bad that some women use the reason that they are 'women' in order to make the situation different from that of when I enjoy the pleasure of my freinds company simply because they are actually my freinds hence dont feel as though I should be giving them anymore in material terms than they are giving me, except in extenuating circumstances such as if they where living in poverty or needed a favour from a mate.
Even rich people with Ferraris are very selective of who they choose as freinds for similar reasons as they want 'real' freinds.

Granted that whoever has to stay at home and look after the kids etc is contributing as much as the other who is working whether that be the man or the woman.

i like this guys posts, the guy has both feet on the ground.

So lets see, i have learned that this evolves around sex and is sexually driven from the words of a few pro dommes.

i have learned that pro dommes provide a service that attracts these sexually driven individuals.

and from the dictionary i have learned that prostitute is defined as:

1) To offer (oneself or another) for sexual hire.
2) To sell (oneself or one's talent, for example) for an unworthy purpose.

For those who are literary challenged:
sex·u·al (sksh-l) KEY
ADJECTIVE:
Of, relating to, involving, or characteristic of sex, sexuality, the sexes, or the sex organs and their functions.
Implying or symbolizing erotic desires or activity.
Relating to, produced by, or involving reproduction characterized by the union of male and female gametes: sexual reproduction.

i suppose from all the evidence i have seen that providing a service for sexually driven men that consequentially provides sexual relief for that man direct or indirect, could by definition be legitimately descibed as a hooker or prostitute, the findings of social law not withstanding.

Imagine if life were only governed by law, ethics or morals not withstanding, what a sad place this would be for all but the attorneys.

Its supply and demand, the pros would not exist if the men did not want them.

i do feel that advertizing their pro domme business on this site is inappropriate and not in the spirit of a site that is for finding a partner. They should put a check box not to see anyone advertized as a pro. that would solve this issue. i personally hate the increasing amount of spam put up by pros. That is what it is to the greater majority of us who have no interest in wallet rapists. If CM wants to intermingle business and lifestyle the very least they could do is to put in the search section of (Actively seeking) "pro domme" as one of the choices so those who want to find a pro domme and vice versa can go diectly to each other without reading about the lifestylers seeking partners. Which would be spam to them.

Personally, this site has been considerably less than i had hoped it would be. Overall i like yahoo messenger better. At least they are respectful and dont ignore me like they do here.

Cheers!
The real 1

(in reply to openmindedslave)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/23/2006 8:35:02 PM

Posts: 1194
Status: offline

quote:

mistressravyn:

I am glad to see someone other than Myself was offended by this "cloudboy".
the men and women who choose to serve Me are required to divulge all of their interests, fetishes, fantasies AND their limits before I even begin sessions with them.
quote:

Topping from the bottom???

quote:

amayos:

There simply IS no problem with it, other than what some "highly moral" individuals perceive as a problem.

We all exchange and receive tributes, gifts and money in our romantic/sexual/whatever interactions. I don't see what we do as "prostitution" at all, from either side of the fence.
quote:

these are completely different from straight out giving money for what some still see as sexual in nature.

just my .02 worth

_____________________________

Are we having fun, yet?

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/23/2006 10:09:59 PM

Posts: 69
Status: offline

BlkTallFullfig wrote:

"Well hot damn! No wonder you're a submissive seeking a "twooe" dominant. You are a gift, and I'm shocked no one's collared you yet."

I'm not a slave. I'm not particularly submissive. If you consider being able to delivery a steady stream of sarcastic one liners a gift, then I'm you're man. I don't wear collars. I consider the concept to be an insult.

If if a woman can dominate me then she can be my mistress. If she can't then she's just a chew toy. Or as I like to refer to them as tame dommes. They're great. You can throw them over your shoulder, steal their panties and play matador.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/24/2006 4:55:41 AM

Oumae

Posts: 911
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline

I don't see allowing someone to buy me dinner as giving them power over me. I see it as allowing someone to treat me, as a way of showing affection, respect or courtesy/chivalry.

Likewise if I treat someone to something I don't see it as giving me power over them.

It is the mindset that something is done in and accepted in that gives the dynamic.

Oumae

_____________________________

Is cuma le fear na mbrog ca leagann se a chos.
( The man with the boots does not mind where he places his foot)

(in reply to seaturtle50)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/24/2006 5:34:01 AM

MysticalPhoenix

Posts: 212
Joined: 11/30/2005
From: Kelloggsville, Vanilla County MI
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oumae

I don't see allowing someone to buy me dinner as giving them power over me.

I think part of the problem (over and above the fact that we've been hearing from some real cheapskates with axes to grind who want the women to pay for everything and give them everything) is that somehow people see perceive a vanilla woman and a vanilla man out for dinner and think that she's the submissive one when he pays for the meal. We tend to see the vanilla world as a place where the men are always dominant and the women are always submissive. Not during courtship. Otherwise the male would never go down on his knees before the woman he's proposing to, and offer her two months of his salary to sparkle on her finger.

Wrong. He's paying for the meal in the desperate hope that he's going to get sex. Just like the guys who buy drinks for women in bars in hope of getting some action. But in the vanilla world, women have an iron control over which date the guys are allowed to get sex (3rd date rule is the most common), how much, what kind, yadda yadda yadda. Men control the level of the relationship (i.e. dating, exclusivity, boyfriend/girlfriend, etc.), but the women control the access to sex. And that means after they've started having sex as well. He's going to do whatever he can to keep her happy so that she continues to put out. And that means taking her out for dinner, buying her gifts, flowers, accompanying her shopping, staying home with her instead of going out with the guys, etc.

So, in that situation, the male, in spite of him paying the check, is definitely the submissive one. Because in the vanilla world, women have the power of "NO".

So, why, should we reverse that and expect the female to pay the check if she is the Dominant one and he is the submissive? It is not logical, except that it's a wonderful way for guys to get out of paying for anything, by calling women prostitutes if they expect their sub partners to buy dinner.

Fortunately, in the bdsm world, we also have the power of "NO".

Phoenix

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Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are.

(in reply to Oumae)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/24/2006 5:54:57 AM

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I think part of the problem (over and above the fact that we've been hearing from some real cheapskates with axes to grind who want the women to pay for everything and give them everything) is that somehow people see perceive a vanilla woman and a vanilla man out for dinner and think that she's the submissive one when he pays for the meal. We tend to see the vanilla world as a place where the men are always dominant and the women are always submissive. Not during courtship. Otherwise the male would never go down on his knees before the woman he's proposing to, and offer her two months of his salary to sparkle on her finger.

So, why, should we reverse that and expect the female to pay the check if she is the Dominant one and he is the submissive? It is not logical, except that it's a wonderful way for guys to get out of paying for anything, by calling women prostitutes if they expect their sub partners to buy dinner.

I don't think anything else needs to be said here, since the lady above has nailed it.
I'm definitely not going to reply to the most remarkable poster to this thread yet, Mr lokisgodhi, because I feel like a tame domme this morning

... M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 1/24/2006 5:57:23 AM >

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(in reply to MysticalPhoenix)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/24/2006 11:04:28 AM

Posts: 382
Joined: 12/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

We tend to see the vanilla world as a place where the men are always dominant and the women are always submissive. Not during courtship. Otherwise the male would never go down on his knees before the woman he's proposing to, and offer her two months of his salary to sparkle on her finger

Thank You MysticalPhoenix, that clears thinks up for me and makes perfect sense as well. i have noticed that all of Your posts demonstrate insightful wisdom. (In my case though, it was more like 5.5 months of salary ;-)

quote:

He's paying for the meal in the desperate hope that he's going to get sex

i guiltily and ashamedly admit to this truth! (although in looking back it often did not seem to me that is what i was doing, in searching my truth however, that was of course the most base motivation, in every case)

quote:

So, why, should we reverse that and expect the female to pay the check if she is the Dominant one and he is the submissive? It is not logical, except that it's a wonderful way for guys to get out of paying for anything

This was not the point of my post or question at all. i was caught up in the imagined feeling that i would have of having Her be in charge, completely of the "date." I imagined a sort of sense of embarrassment, and passive acceptance of Her superiority, by being "treated" in such a way. i now have a better understanding and see that my view in questioning "why" was skewed.

Thank You very much MysticalPhoenix for Your wise and abundant counsel.

michael

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/24/2006 11:10:31 AM

Posts: 26
Joined: 7/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

OK, i just have to ask ...

Please remember that i am a virtually a newbie, and have not invested in any flame retardant gear yet. This is a serious question ...

Why exactly would a Dominant Woman wish a submissive man to pay for dinner on a date?

The concept did make perfect sense to me, until i thought of myself as a Dom, taking a little sub girl to dinner. At no time would i want her to pay, and would most likely look at the concept of her paying with contempt. (i mean, who exactly does she think she is anyway?)

In my past vanilla relationships, i have always considered it my place to pay, and only ever gave in for the sake of those bent on a sign of "equality." (which probably was more a sign of "you are not fucking me tonight" )

So it would seem to me that a Dominant Woman, technically, and power-exchange wise, would have no need for my petty attempt/desire at paying for her dinner. (That said, i would eventually expect her to own and control all that i have and may ever produce ) i mean as Her submissive, is it not She who is taking me on this date anyway?

Ahh dear... I don't mind paying for dinner.. after all I have your wallet!

also

its not a "petty" attempt when it comes to paying for a meal. I am a Dominant woman, and if I want to pay for My own meal, its quite obvious that I would, but I do not. I want YOU too.

I must make mention that the Dom/fem sub.. Domme/male sub .. relationships are two different things.

also I think you're viewing date in a vanilla way, which doesnt really work here

<I don't know a man yet that hasnt happily paid for a meal while being foot handled, or butt plugged, or otherwise tortured..lol>

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(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/24/2006 11:37:02 AM

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MysticalPhoenix

you have just witnessed why the feminist movement never became the womens movement back in the seventies

(in reply to MysticalPhoenix)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/24/2006 1:32:49 PM

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Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

Mummy's sorry she didn't give you a lollipop, wipe a tear, pat you on the back and say there there, then hold you close to her bossum and stroke you're hair. Mummy's sorry the big bad feminists didn't keep women all sugar and spice and all things nice.

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"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/24/2006 1:45:17 PM

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: seaturtle50

OK, i just have to ask ...

Please remember that i am a virtually a newbie, and have not invested in any flame retardant gear yet. This is a serious question ...

Why exactly would a Dominant Woman wish a submissive man to pay for dinner on a date?

The concept did make perfect sense to me, until i thought of myself as a Dom, taking a little sub girl to dinner. At no time would i want her to pay, and would most likely look at the concept of her paying with contempt. (i mean, who exactly does she think she is anyway?)

In my past vanilla relationships, i have always considered it my place to pay, and only ever gave in for the sake of those bent on a sign of "equality." (which probably was more a sign of "you are not fucking me tonight" )

So it would seem to me that a Dominant Woman, technically, and power-exchange wise, would have no need for my petty attempt/desire at paying for her dinner. (That said, i would eventually expect her to own and control all that i have and may ever produce ) i mean as Her submissive, is it not She who is taking me on this date anyway?

seaturtle50

Its a matter of how you view the slave's role.

In some relationships the money is part of their service.

In others the slave turns over their money so it becomes the dominants.

In others it a repeat of traditional roles.

In others the top pays to feel something, I guess what the preceive to be power.

In others who pays depends on who had the idea to go out.

In others they go dutch.

In general, I follow the last two above. If its my idea that we go out, I pay; if its his idea to go out (and yes, my slaves have always had the right to come up with suggestions on what we'll do), he pays. Most often we make a mutual decision (we're going to this movie, let's got out to dinner to discuss it afterwards) so we each pay for ourselves (or he gives me the cash and I use the credit card).

In my household Fox doesn't give me his income. I don't want it because I don't even have the stress of my marriage's financial matters so I don't want this extra stress and Tom doesn't own Fox so turning money over to Tom is not appropriate. However because we are not wealthy Fox pays into the general household account each month to cover groceries and utilities -- not the mortage (this house is not in his name).

This may change when we move once I have a teaching position. If Fox wants to be more incorporated into the family we would do this in part by each of us buying the house and contributing to the mortage. We would then set up a "house" account that we each would contribute to and then the rest of our incomes would go into personal accounts. Fox's education loans would remain his own as would mine; everyone would cover their own insurance, etc.

I think its more complicated for us because we are a poly household. I've given a lot of thought to it though and it would be the same for anyone else moving into the house. Everyone contributes to the collective welfare, everyone is responsible for their own financial issues.

This is just my preference.

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TammyJo

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And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to seaturtle50)

RE: Does tribute equal being a hooker? - 1/24/2006 2:30:05 PM

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

My boy has a well paying job and I am finishing off a post-graduate certificate program.
We make plans together and he usually pays. We both purchase gifts for each other,
not just for the expected holly days but also "just because".

Once I begin working again the dynamic may shift a bit. But overall, he feels that it is his
place as a gentleman to pay most of the expenses. It is also his way of expressing his
feelings for Me and an act of service.

Vendaval

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to thetammyjo)

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