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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 9:02:43 AM

Missokyst

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I thought I was bowing, but turns out I only slipped on a bit of spit-up.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Worldly1
I was brought up in the bdsm lifestyle by old guard leathermen, where honor and integrity is stressed above everything else.

In that environment, for a collared submissive or slave to openly challenge his or her Domininant is not acceptable behavior.

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 9:16:20 AM

sambamanslilgirl

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personally, having someone telling me whom i should vote for would be an instant red flag.

it's my right and liberty as a citizen of this nation to pick and choose - not Daddy's. otherwise i would be a mindless sheeple without a real opinion.

my pov

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 9:19:35 AM

WinsomeDefiance

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I've never once been given the impression that Tsaske was 'an ignorant sub' who couldn't think or speak for herself. Quite the contrary. Sometimes, people just need an outlet for their frustrations, and she was pretty up front and honest about the reason for this post being just that.

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 9:27:43 AM

WinsomeDefiance

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Hypothetically speaking (just my own thoughts rambling about in my head), I like to believe that if the person I submitted to, had a broader knowledge of the issues than I - was someone I trusted, to be logical and knowledgeable, who made good choices for themselves and me; and I gave them dominion over my choices, I don't see why I wouldn't respect their choice and decision enough to back their pick (,and honor my commitment to submit) . However, just because he says he's going to tell her how to vote, doesn't mean he couldn' just as easily give her permission to "vote her conscience." But even if he does tell her how to vote. It still remains her right to determine for herself how she will go about determing who she will vote for. If obeying her Master is how she makes her determining vote - it is her rigt.

I would rather hope I wouldn't submit to someone who DIDN'T meet such basic requirements, but on the off chance I dummied up and did just that, then I suppose I would be extremely reticent toward the idea. Then again, I've never come across anyone who even vaguely hinted at a desire to tell me I couldn't vote or think in any paricular way. I'm not really sure HOW I'd react, in an actual circumstance like that.

< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 9/27/2008 9:41:32 AM >

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 9:29:07 AM

persephonee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Youresomine

Ahhh, yes one of those ignorant subs that just want to stay ignorant. Why use your brain when you have a body?

No, with respect, i dont believe that is ms t.'s experience in her world. Not that i know her from anyone...i just think that the above comment is unduly harsh and not in keeping with what she was even trying to say.
If she, in fact, negociated this into her contract, then she must have felt that that was right for her. i firmly believe that she has the right to do things the way she wants to. And i wont pretend that just because she tried to post here that she "asked" for rude remarks....i dont know what sort of people you deal with in your daily life, but the submissive men and women i know and spend time with are far from ignorant. Perhaps you should consider reevaluating your circle of friends.

i have personally read some very well thought out and articulate posts from this woman and have on more than one occasion found her advice or comments to be sound. i personally disagreed with this one and posted as much. Does this one disagreement make her someone i shouldnt pay heed to in the future, no...it makes her even more interesting in that we dont agree on every topic.

And yanow...i dont know why i am defending her, as she is more than capable of defending herself. But im owly today...so beware.

Back to the issue at hand....does a person's relationship affect their vote? Yes. Its not a D/s thing...its an interpersonal thing...some members of my family hinge their votes on their husband's vote. Believe me, it took me years to adopt the sleepy-eyed shrug combined with a smile that i use whenever im anywhere near some of these people. Once i did, i found i was much better equipped to deal with them. Funny thing is, they never changed their behaviors...i changed how i responded to their behaviors. Is it possible that my very elderly extended family members are involved in a dynamic of which i am not aware? Sure. Either way, its none of my business how another person votes...and its none of my business if their votes are in effect given away.

i would prefer this to not be the case...and as soon as i get my island and set up my own government...and my own rules....i wont have to deal with anyone i dont like. Of course, ive already invited CreativeDominant to reside there with me, so now i need to make sure that everyone else is going to agree with him...as he is the domliest of the doms...and we all need to bow to his will.

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 9:32:56 AM

HeavansKeeper

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I'd like to start by saying My Pet has been told she won't be told who to vote for. We will be watching some debate material together. She has been told she will be voting.

Tsatske has a good point. It seems hypocritical for someone to say "Educate yourself enough to make a decision, but you should know, the decision is made for you."

Compared to some, I'm a softy when it comes to owning a girly. She's encouraged to ask questions and grow her mind. She is encouraged (expected) to know (or seek out) the "why" to my orders. Sometimes the "why" is simple. Sometimes its more complex.

It sounds whiny, but it isn't. It is to ensure she understands the point of her disciplines.

Why do I need to post on 1 CM topic per week?
So you can see other people's issues and perhaps feel like you're not alone in yours.

Why do I need to kneel when I hand you gifts?
So you can appreciate your offering.

Why can't I eat chocolate without permission?
Because its not safe for puppies.

Why do I have to watch political crap?
Because your owner wants a pet who is a contributing member of society. If you want to go watch MTV you better put on a bikini and dowse yourself in beer, I heard "Spring Break" re runs are tonight.

In short, when I said "because I said so." to My Pet I mean:

"I have a rationale, but at this point in time you are not privy to that line of thinking, for explaining the nuances of the exercise may inhibit your ability to fully appreciate the lesson. As always, there will be a proper time to discuss this particular act of discipline and devotion in which I will be completely transparent in all regards to any questions you may have."

That deals with MadRabbit's objection to "because I said so." Which, I agree, is no rationale at all.

LittleKitten's thoughts on voting are similar to my own. My Pet is devoted to me. I could easily tell her who to vote for, with no reasoning expressed, and I know she would get it done. I trust her with that. But the reason I don't is because I feel voting is not an appropriate field to exert and express my dominance over her. I can control what she wears, what she eats, when she sleeps. I'm not going to get into a thing about electoral colleges and the merit either way, but in short, to keep a dream alive, I insist on being part of the system... In a good way.

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 9:33:28 AM

tsatske

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sweet kitten,
I understand how you feel. I am going to try to state how I feel about this in plain language, while hoping to not offend or to make you feel attacked. It is a fine line. Please know that I mean no disrespect to you, and am not trying to attack. I am expressing only MY views, not what is right for you.

BDSM is not a sex game I play. Yes, the sex is fantastic, and I love to get beaten, but M/s is my daily life. interesting that, while this thread, (predictably, not complaining about that) might have made some feel that I 'submit too much', i just got a letter in my CM telling me that someone who only 'plays at silly little D/s games', like Master and I, has no right to have the kajari's creed on my profile-journal.

slavery, for me, means I turn over to Him anything and everything he choses to have control of. Not just the fun sexy stuff in the bedroom. Not just the hard, crying, oh-please-Master-No stuff that makes me feel wonderfully and deeply submissive. Also the boring stuff. How to spend my money. what to wear today. Time to clean the kitchen. How much time to spend online. What to watch on TV. Did you write family this week? all the *yawn* stuff of daily life.

I am well aware of what a privilage it is to vote. I have one son in the Marines, another trying hard to join the Army. My Marine was in Georgia when it went hot, we only very recently got him home, to our great joy and relief. No doubt soon enough will find him back in country. Have I mentioned how proud of my sons I am?

The way this Democracy thing works is - everyone gets a vote. One vote. And they decide how to use it based on all kinds of things. That's the way it was written up, and, imo, the way it *should* be, as well.

People vote on single issues. There is a thread here on the boards called 'the deviding issue - abortion'. People vote because they always vote with a given voting block - they always vote strait ticket - they always vote with the union - they always vote whomever a certain newspaper or editorialist endorses. Are you saying these things are wrong? I simply chose to always vote with Master.
Before I was owned, both my middle son and my father disagreed with my voting decisions, for opisite reasons. I will vote third party. Dad feels that is a wasted vote. I disagree. conversely, though a registered Libertarian, I will not vote for any canadate that can not field the ballet in all 50 states. My son always votes Libertarian. We disagree. How is deciding to vote with Master any different from any of these descions?

Thomas Jefferson said, the only way America would ever cease to be Democratic, is if they voted Demoracy out. And that is a *Good* thing. The country should be ruled by the people - all the people, not just the ones you think are intellegent enough, worldly enough or take it serriously enough. (you being generic, not actually you.)

When Germany voted in a leader that Americans found racist and offensive, *I* was offended that we would even discuss sanctions on them - it is their country, they have the right to chose their goverment and their leaders, just as we do. How can you seriously call it democracy if you are going to put lmits on how I express my vote?

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 10:02:00 AM

Loric

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well said tsatske, well said...you have the right to choose how you vote, and if you choose to vote the way you are told by your Master, then it isn't anyone else's place to say that you are wrong...and as for anyone saying that you're playing at being slave they aren't around you 24/7 so take what they say with about a ton of salt...some people have to stoop to name calling and such because it's the only thing that makes them happy in their sorry sad miserable lives and others just get off on seeing if it will make you angry...either way, it's not worth the stress of trying to respond to them in kind, you know that you're a true slave and so does your Master, so really...that's all that should matter.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and most of 'em stink.

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 1:03:07 PM

lally3

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Worldly, hi.

on the whole i tend to respect all and every view. i jumped on my high horse over the vote thing because its something i think is profoundly important and a basic human right that should not ever be taken from anyone ever. it is one of the most important things anyone of us can do for ourselves, our country, our planet and our kids.

what urked me a little with your post and markbuggers' was that you completely missed this point in favour of some high ground that was frankly irrelevant and not in the least bit asked for since tsatske has permission to post on here and has done so, frequently and always with interesting and worthwhile things to say. she wasnt whinging or whining, she was kicking her heels and looking for a chat on the topic.

so i got a bit narked, because really, in my opinion what the Old Guard used to do or stand for is all well and good and i respect your knowledge and experience, but right now the world is in crisis and i just cant help feeling thats slightly more important than whether or not she has the right to write on here.

ps: my profile is back on - so feel free, im always up for a hearty discussion

< Message edited by lally3 -- 9/27/2008 1:28:09 PM >

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 3:43:32 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske
why do I have to watch the speeches and debates that He keeps having me watch with Him?

In my world.. the most important opinion, thougths and feelings that I wish to hear are those of my two girls. So... If they are going to give me well considered opinions, thoughts and feelings on a given subject... shouldn't they be well informed to make those carefully considered opinions, thoughts and feelings? I am thinking if they are not well informed... I suspect the quality of their contribution would be somewhat lacking.

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 4:56:12 PM

tweedydaddy

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Listen carefully, can you hear it? it's a bit faint, but getting louder all the time.
There, now you can hear it, can't you?
It's the Pankhursts, the suffragettes, and millions of voiceless women all turning in their grave that anyone could possibly consider allowing anyone to tell them how to vote.

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 5:02:32 PM

GreedyTop

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SHE AGREED TO THIS BEFORE SHE WAS COLLARED!!

THis would say to me that she TRUSTS her master.

While this is something that *I* personally would NOT agree to.. I cant see why so many are slamming her for it. SHE KNEW WHAT SHE WAS AGREEING TO.

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 5:06:37 PM

VivaciousSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

SHE AGREED TO THIS BEFORE SHE WAS COLLARED!!

THis would say to me that she TRUSTS her master.

While this is something that *I* personally would NOT agree to.. I cant see why so many are slamming her for it. SHE KNEW WHAT SHE WAS AGREEING TO.

*covers her ears and ducks from Greedy*

Do you think they heard you in Scotland?

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 5:09:18 PM

GreedyTop

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no.. Wales, maybe.....

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 5:10:45 PM

scarlethiney

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

When He collared me, we discussed the voting issue. I agree that He has every right to tell me how to vote, He said He would be unlikely to, esp. in a national election (I think His words are 'where there isn't any real difference between one and the other, anyway), more likely to for a referendum, where we know in advace we will disagree.
Several weeks ago I asked him about that, in regard to the upcoming election. He said He was still undecided, but that, once decided, He would be telling me how to vote.
Okay, I'm fine with that. He knows who my chosen canadate would be, He is leaning strongly the other way.
My question is, if He is planning to tell me how to vote, why do I have to watch the speeches and debates that He keeps having me watch with Him?
Yes, I know you don't know the answer, and I know to ask Him, I am just blowing off a little steam (otherwise, my asking is not going to be as respectful as I might wish it to be), and, thought it would be interesting if other Dominants had views on the topic, as well.

Perhaps my relationship with my Master is quite different. My Master values my opinion even if it differs from his.

scarlet

< Message edited by scarlethiney -- 9/27/2008 5:52:42 PM >

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 5:11:54 PM

VampiresLair

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I dont understand why she is being ripped for his telling her how to vote since she isnt having a problem with that. She doesnt want to be bothered with the debates, and yet he is making her. Think of it as homework. It might not matter in the long run, but how would you feel if he decides to have a discussion with you about one of the debates you were supposed to be watching and you disappoint him becasue you are clueless?
You might or might not have to make up your own mind this election... but what happens if he changes his mind and DOES want you to make your own choice? Or even if he asks you who or what you would have voted and why if you had been allowed to. That should make it fairly clear why you have to keep up.

DV

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 5:14:08 PM

GreedyTop

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**applauds DV**

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 5:21:58 PM

Phoenixpower

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quote:

no.. Wales, maybe.....

It reached to here

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 5:24:53 PM

GreedyTop

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*smooches Phoenix* How are you?

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RE: Why do I have to pay attention? - 9/27/2008 5:25:17 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney

Perhaps my relationship with my Master is quite different. My Master values my opinion even if it differs from his. He would never expect me to make a decision that could affect an entire country because of his ego.

wow... that was a really nice passive aggressive attack.

Just because her Master is going to decide who she should vote for... Doesn't mean that he doesn't value her opinion. But in the end... for their relationship and understanding was established that he would make "That" decision. I fail to see how she is Harmed or anyone else for that matter because he chooses to exercise his authority in this manner. And.. just because he makes this decision doesn't not mean he is motivated because of his Ego either. Just maybe they seek to have a transfer authority dynamic and seek ways to demonstrate this dynamic by a multitude of ways in order to bring a sense of well-being for themselves and their relationship.

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