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RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:03:00 AM

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quote:

I do not need anyone to "inspire" me to change, to be a better person or Dominant. I've come to the realizations through life on my own. If a female comes my way..she will get the same passionate male that I was born to not that she sparked to action.

What a perfect analogy for our differences: I wouldn't want a woman who didn't cause sparks for me, you would. I know I am far from perfect and you feel you were born that way. I think it is rather clear the women you desire are very very different than the women I desire and the relationships we both strive for are equally different. I think the women who's lives I have touched wouldn't want it any other way.

(in reply to Icarys)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:03:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

This brings up an interesting point.
I am dominant whether I like it or not. People tend to see me as someone who can get things done and is not afraid to lead the pack or wander alone.
And yet, I am submissive when someone inspires it from me.

That's me as well. I'm an alpha personality. I'm more dominant than probably 90% of the Dominants I've met. But, yet when I do meet someone that is more alpha than I am, I find I can let go and be submissive to that person.

My ex used to tell me that I was like a lioness. Self-sufficient, strong and willing to rip your head off if you pissed her off....but yet submissive to one alpha male.

So, yes, he inspires my submission.

_____________________________

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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Missokyst)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:05:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Marie, I do get all you said.

My only thing to add would be that it's more helpful when talking about relationships and BDSM in general to not focus on that great relationship being between a dominant and a submissive. Great relationships and personal growth come from all quarters. That deep connection doesn't have to depend on the orientation of the person and yes - being honest. If Michael had been anyone else new to the forum, or less well appriciated, then tons of bricks would have fallen on the mention of 'great submissives' - just as they would and do when people come in and dare to mention the word 'true' or 'real'. If - as you say - we(generic) are to take his words as a personal thought on what makes a great *insert here* then why is this not done for the hundreds of people that post similar concepts just in different wording? Is it because it's Michael that we are expected to accept it without a disclaimer when there are countless others are ridiculed and berated for doing the same because they don't have this imagined postion?
No offense to Michael, I have encountered the same on a personal level where people hold one up in such high regard that almost nothing you can say can be perceived as a mistake or badly worded. But people should understand that even the perceived 'great' fuck up and make mistakes and issue bad comments and instructions and it's not fair to belittle those with lesser 'standing' to receive more and nasier responses because they just aren't known.

The OP came in here and issued a volitile example - and a difficult worded post which people have been callous and nasty about in their droves. A regular poster comes in and exhibits a similar volitle example and thought and I - we - are told we should take it only as a personal introspective thought because we challenge and disagree politely and that they were only passing over a personal viewpoint of what makes something or someone great?? What are we supposed to do - admire and adore from afar with the backs of our hands to our foreheads because its a regular and seemingly well liked poster? Can people not see the hypocrisy in this anywhere?

the.dark.

I have noticed this too without a doubt. I honesty think, though I'm sure I've fucked up too, that if the OP (a "non-reg") had said "This is what submission is", I would have had the same comments if people had been telling him his feelings were flat out wrong.

And despite the fact that he came in from the gate with an obvious tone of condescention, insults and blatant name-calling even towards the people who hadn't yet been nasty with him, he still got some very nice answers, which he seemed to throw back at people while addressing them as idiots. I don't know. I don't think too many regulars would get away with calling people idiots, yet people still gave this guy's post the time of day. Yes, he was met with some of the subbie mafia lol, but of course that was going to happen after he started flinging shit in every direction and completely losing his composure.

As far as the hypocrisy, Im sure if I look at myself deeply enough I will find it at some place or another. Your general comment about newbies getting torn apart vs regulars getting away with whatever they want is something that I agree with whole-heartedly and something that personally and privately bothers me to a point where I want to jump in and rail on people for doing it. In fact, I have, and I've gotten torn a new asshole for it plenty of times. I'm not exactly among the crowd of most-admired posters. Plenty of times on these boards I voice the minority opinion even though I know I'm gonna catch flack for it, because I'm not one to blow smoke up the asses of the regulars just to be a part of the crowd.

This may come as a surprise, but in the nearly 3 yrs that I have been here, I have never had a single exchange publically or privately with Michael, with the exception of when I said "welcome back" last week and looked at his link of wood works. In fact most times I have not liked a lot of what he has said, which is why I never commented to him in all the time I've been here. In the case of this thread, someone said something that resonated with me deeply, and it was incidental that it happened to have been Michael.

Btw, I don't take your post as some personal attack on me. I think your point is a valid one and something I have noticed myself. I think it makes for a great topic in and of itself actually. And although I'm probably guilty of a lot of shit, favoring regulars over newbies isn't one of them. I actually tend the lean the other way if anything.

Example of the exact same argument I made two years ago:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_570314/mpage_1/tm.htm

edited to fix the link

< Message edited by marieToo -- 10/3/2008 8:44:02 AM >

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RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:14:53 AM

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It's taken me a while to read up to the point where the.dark finally says what I have been waiting to read.
I have been reading what Darcyandthedark have been saying for a while and for me (yes I had to make sure I said for me) they have a D/s relationship similar to the one I wish for myself except the other way around.
I will always want to learn from my submissive. Firstly what it's all about for him. So that I can make sure, without going against what I believe to be right for him, that I learn how to satisfy him.
At the same time I will be teaching him how to satisfy me.
I offer to dominate. He has to come to me to be dominated.
I can humiliate someone without their permission but I can't dominate somone without their allowing it.That's how I see D/s.
Others see it differently.
I can have a D/s relationship and remain vanilla.
However finding someone BDSM in everyday vanilla life isn't easy.
So I came to this site.
I was shocked at the impoliteness of some people I read, spoke to and met. I assumed quite wrongly that the more experienced people would be willing to teach those newbies who wanted to learn. Then I realised that it is actually impossible to teach someone if they are not receptive. I have been seen as being very submissive because I'm polite. I help people. I work very hard. Are these things seen as submissive qualities? I hope not. I hope they are personal qualities that we all aspire to. I hope the op will read the comments made here very carefully. There is a lot of useful advice. Seek and you might find the person who is the right person for you. If you find her then you must find a way to satisfy her while teaching her to satisfy you. Taking all and giving nothing will not in my opinion ever lead to happiness in a relationship. It isn't submissive to give. Being a 'good' dominant isn't easy. Perhaps the only person who has a right to judge what a 'good' means in this context is the submissive who is being dominated.
It's taken me a lot of soul searching to come to these conclusions.
It hasn't found me a BDSM submissive lover but it has helped me to get over a lot of bad things that have happened to me.
I'm not seeking anymore. I'm trying to make friends with others who have a similar vision to the one I have.
Thankyou once more the.dark for saying very eloquently what I have been struggling with.
The submissive for me might be far more assertive, far more knowlegable, far more authoritative than I am etc etc but if he allows me and only me to dominate him then he is my submissive.

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:16:19 AM

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The OP came in and complained that nobody was really submissive. So he is saying they are "bad" submissives. My point was that one person's "bad" submissive is actually a GREAT submissive, just that person is either wrong for them or a shitty dominant.

And yes, I do think there are people who are shitty dominants just as there are shitty submissives. There are also ones who suck because they do not yet know what they are doing and with growth could become great. I sure as hell didn't show much promise when I was new and I think a few might think I show a bit of promise now as well...

However, clearly for some that is a matter under discussion...

(in reply to marieToo)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:19:16 AM

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quote:

I know I am far from perfect and you feel you were born that way

Where did i say i was born perfect?lol. I was born a Dominant personality(I believe my mother would attest to that lol)Even at the age of two I was very headstrong among other things. I've gradually modified my belief over the years of what a good Dominant is for me. I've never needed someone's help in that. I will always find my own way in life and Dominance.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:23:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

I do not need anyone to "inspire" me to change, to be a better person or Dominant. I've come to the realizations through life on my own. If a female comes my way..she will get the same passionate male that I was born to not that she sparked to action.

What a perfect analogy for our differences: I wouldn't want a woman who didn't cause sparks for me, you would. I know I am far from perfect and you feel you were born that way. I think it is rather clear the women you desire are very very different than the women I desire and the relationships we both strive for are equally different. I think the women who's lives I have touched wouldn't want it any other way.

I think you're both right. (I just had a great idea for a new Doublemint commercial

)

I wouldn't want a Dominant who NEEDED to be inspired by a woman/submissive before he could be a Dominant. But on the other hand, I think a good relationship is one where they feed off each other, and if the submissive inspires the Dominant to be even better than he may have been before, what's wrong with that?

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:27:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

I do not need anyone to "inspire" me to change, to be a better person or Dominant. I've come to the realizations through life on my own. If a female comes my way..she will get the same passionate male that I was born to not that she sparked to action.

What a perfect analogy for our differences: I wouldn't want a woman who didn't cause sparks for me, you would. I know I am far from perfect and you feel you were born that way. I think it is rather clear the women you desire are very very different than the women I desire and the relationships we both strive for are equally different. I think the women who's lives I have touched wouldn't want it any other way.

I think you're both right. (I just had a great idea for a new Doublemint commercial )

I wouldn't want a Dominant who NEEDED to be inspired by a woman/submissive before he could be a Dominant. But on the other hand, I think a good relationship is one where they feed off each other, and if the submissive inspires the Dominant to be even better than he may have been before, what's wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with either of those. Just don't come at me and say how sad for me that i don't see it your way. It comes off as foolish and not near as enlightened as they might think.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to windchymes)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:30:00 AM

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What's wrong with that?

It doesn't have that ring of "uberness" some so desperately need. Me, if I was born anything, it was a domineering asshole. I had to LEARN to be a loving nurturing dominant and it was, and is, a long slow process, one that I certainly hope I will never be done with.

(in reply to windchymes)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:30:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLupineNYC

I think he might be upset strangers seem to have no interest in sucking his cock? Oh woe to mindset that there is only 'one twue way' of domination.

Ha ha ha - knodding in complete agreement!

(in reply to LadyLupineNYC)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:31:05 AM

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I've always looked at the d/s relationships as being symbiotic. Each component owes part of it's existence to the other part. How the nitty gritty to make this happen solely depends upon the rules each part has worked out for their mutual benefit.

edited to fix incorrect terminology.

< Message edited by beargonewild -- 10/3/2008 8:33:03 AM >

_____________________________

Do Not Rile da Chosen Bear

Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

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(in reply to windchymes)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:34:22 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

I've always looked at the dominant/submission relationships as being symbiotic. Each component owes part of it's existence to the other part. How the nitty gritty to make this happen solely depends upon the rules each part has worked out for their mutual benefit.

I'm inclined to agree with part of this sentiment, but not with the premise that the "existence" of Dominance/submission is dependent upon the other. No moreso than a baseball's existence is dependent upon a bat. They both exist independently, but the manner in which they can be employed is dependent upon each other.

I think that's a meaningful distinction.

John

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RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:37:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

I've always looked at the dominant/submission relationships as being symbiotic. Each component owes part of it's existence to the other part. How the nitty gritty to make this happen solely depends upon the rules each part has worked out for their mutual benefit.

I'm inclined to agree with part of this sentiment, but not with the premise that the "existence" of Dominance/submission is dependent upon the other. No moreso than a baseball's existence is dependent upon a bat. They both exist independently, but the manner in which they can be employed is dependent upon each other.

I think that's a meaningful distinction.

John

Good point and thanks for the further clarification.

_____________________________

Do Not Rile da Chosen Bear

Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

Resident MANWHORE ~1000 Bear pts~

10 NZ points
Whips~n~Cuffs

(in reply to Rover)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:44:20 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

awwww thanks, think you're pretty cool yourself *blushes*

Ain't she though. Lucky Fella, that Darcy. *winks at the.dark"

I am all a blush now, thank you both for your kind words. It means so much because of the people it comes from.

the.dark.

_____________________________

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Icarys)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:49:32 AM

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This is one of those threads that has turned into the a high-school debate free for all. With people attempting to out-wit, one-up, and under-cut each other. Y'all are brutal and I can't quite figure out why? And ya... these boards have always been about a popularity contest and cliques... just go back and see how many people just reinforce each other's celebritism (I think I made that up) in an endless mutual appreciation society circle... and then nit pick others for (from what looks like on the outside) minor infractions.

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:50:29 AM

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Darcyandthedark are totally rocking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I so totally adore them both.. and I love what they contribute to the forums...

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RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 8:54:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverything

This is one of those threads that has turned into the a high-school debate free for all. With people attempting to out-wit, one-up, and under-cut each other. Y'all are brutal and I can't quite figure out why? And ya... these boards have always been about a popularity contest and cliques... just go back and see how many people just reinforce each other's celebritism (I think I made that up) in an endless mutual appreciation society circle... and then nit pick others for (from what looks like on the outside) minor infractions.

Well, you know how those Brit's are........

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to giveeverything)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 9:02:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: giveeverything

This is one of those threads that has turned into the a high-school debate free for all. With people attempting to out-wit, one-up, and under-cut each other. Y'all are brutal and I can't quite figure out why? And ya... these boards have always been about a popularity contest and cliques... just go back and see how many people just reinforce each other's celebritism (I think I made that up) in an endless mutual appreciation society circle... and then nit pick others for (from what looks like on the outside) minor infractions.

It is sad that you feel this way and perceive that many of us are part of a "clique." many of us do have similar viewpoints yet at the same time we will be brutal in our comments especially if it it's strongly perceived as a personal attack without provocation. Yet the only celebrity that I know of on these boards is John Warren.
You say nit pick, I say heated discussions, as it is pointed out earlier, it's a matter of semantics. It might be advisable to ask for a clarification to avoid the misunderstanding. Seems to me that several who participated in this topic have done so without hard feelings or an out and out flame war. Yanno, I type this with a grin, knowing that your mileage may vary as mine does. Thus I wish you a great day and may you get what you richly deserve.

< Message edited by beargonewild -- 10/3/2008 9:03:11 AM >

_____________________________

Do Not Rile da Chosen Bear

Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

Resident MANWHORE ~1000 Bear pts~

10 NZ points
Whips~n~Cuffs

(in reply to giveeverything)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 9:05:47 AM

RCdc

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I know that you and I are kind of on the same wavelength marie. I don't say that the OP's reaction isn't without 'faults' but then the tirade he endured after his postings, I can see why his reaction was less than polite, even the mods popped in. Not an excuse for him, but understandable under the circumstances. It's all down to the perpetuating behaviours of people in general. I have seen other posters come on here, years ago and be branded complete 'assholes' and then evolved through the years to become admired. I am definately not the same person, nor s-type, I was way back in the when.

I would disagree about you not being 'admired' because there are times you inspire me. I honestly believe that for all the hype certain people seem to get, that sensibility can see past all that and realise that there is no such thing as 'godz of bdsm' who are able to lead entire armies or communities - but there are individuals who lead by example. Name dropping counts for nothing - recommendations by people we do not know are essentially pointless - what counts is what a single person sparks as an idea at any given moment to oneself on an individual basis.

If that makes any sense?
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to marieToo)

RE: Where are the submissive submissives? - 10/3/2008 9:08:39 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

I've always looked at the dominant/submission relationships as being symbiotic. Each component owes part of it's existence to the other part. How the nitty gritty to make this happen solely depends upon the rules each part has worked out for their mutual benefit.

I'm inclined to agree with part of this sentiment, but not with the premise that the "existence" of Dominance/submission is dependent upon the other. No moreso than a baseball's existence is dependent upon a bat. They both exist independently, but the manner in which they can be employed is dependent upon each other.

I think that's a meaningful distinction.

John

Good point and thanks for the further clarification.

This discussion between John and Bearone has been a lightbulb moment hey. Well, at least for me.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to beargonewild)

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