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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/2/2008 1:05:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakkan

Will the doms/dommes be tempted to "play the dom card" and avoid long arguments about who is right?

That's no dom card as far as I'm concerned. Authority is exercised through persuasion or force, rather than what amounts to no more than ignoring the issue.

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/2/2008 1:39:18 PM

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Let me tell you a story:

Early on in our relationship, my Master and I got into possibly the stupidest argument in the history of arguments (and I mean this in a completely non-hyperbolic way). It was about yak herders. Yak herders and whether the Nomads on the Mongolian steppe kept primarily yaks or horses (I'm an anthropology student and was taking a class on Nomads at the time). It went on for an entire night--dualing sources, attacks on credibility. Think Karl Rove but without the illegitimate children. Normally, and further on into our relationship, we're much more civil and can usually talk through things to a pleasant resolution. He allows me to speak my mind freely, which I think fosters good communication, especially since we're young and in many ways still feeling out ourselves as well as each other. He doesn't tend to play the "Becasue I said so" card, which is fortunate for me because it's not something I can accept easily. But to this day neither one of us is allowed to bring up yak herders.

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/2/2008 1:46:32 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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For me, the answer to this depends completely on what the disagreement is about. If it is about something philosophical or subjective, I won't play the D-card. I actually like intellectual discourse, and enjoy being challenged intellectually and philosophically. I like having people around me (servants included) who are capable of that, so when I have it, I don't tend to screw it up by ending disagreements with a "Because I Said So".

On the other hand, if it is about something I have commanded or about how something is done that I've asked to have done, then yes... "Go scrub the toilet." "Why? I just scrubbed it yesterday!" (or even "I don't think it needs to be scrubbed again -- I just did it yesterday.")

OR

"Wash the glasses first, then the silver, then the dishes, then the pots and pans -- then scrub the stove, counters, and wipe down the walls and cabinets of any flying food or grease." "But I always do the pots and pans first!"...

... will undoubtedly be met with a "Because I Said So.", and in those cases, yes, I am very much inclined to play the D-card. I don't care if xhe thinks hir way is better -- I want it done, and I want it done -my- way. If xhe comes to me -after-, and says "Hey, I think I can do this more efficiently the next time by doing X instead of what I just did." I'll consider it for the next time -- but in the end, it will be my decision which way I prefer, and I make no apologies for it.

Calla Firestorm

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(in reply to zakkan)

RE: Settling disagreements - 10/2/2008 1:47:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daes

We have disagreements sometimes, we voice our opinions and sometimes we dont agree, nothing wrong with that. If He feels its being drawn out he usually tells me to hush - The same applies if he feels a conversation can lead into an argument.

We don't have arguments. Arguments are different and we have not had one yet.

Yep yep and yep. We have been together for 9 years and yet to have a argument. I value her input in a discussion however I have the final word. It's that simple. I don't get the need for the dom card. If you are in a LT relationship they should know there place.

BadOne

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/2/2008 5:35:37 PM

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The only time one of us could not convince the other of the logic of our position was on a blended family issue. Finally I asked to table it and could we please go to sleep. A night spent holding each other eased our emotions enormously and we discovered in the morning when the emotions werent running so high that we had each misunderstood the other.

As far as how we solved it? We agreed that neither of us knew what would be the right thing to do in this case and we went to see someone who is a professional in the field.

In general I don't disagree as much as I worry. I don't really care how he solves a lot of stuff. What I need to know is that he's taken the emotional cost to people into effect and if it's a more nuts and bolts problem if he's thought of all the things that have occurred to me.

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/2/2008 5:55:12 PM

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best way to settle this do you file your tps reports

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/2/2008 5:56:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakkan

My question is, in any relationship, not just a D/s one, there are bound to be disagreements. Will the doms/dommes be tempted to "play the dom card" and avoid long arguments about who is right?

I don't believe there is any universal answer to your question. However, I can relate how it works in my world.

I don't need or want to play "the Dom card" in order to end or avoid a long arguement. For the simply reason.. we don't have arguements as I understand the term. We do have difference of opinions. We do respect that we can have a different opinion on a give issue. But.... we all respect that I have the authority to make the decisions. So.... it's no big surprize that I make the decisions based on my opinion in the end...

I see an argument as a issue of when a person is more than just having a difference of opinion... but also have an issue of the decision making that is going to occur based on the prevalent opinion. When people become passionate on having the decision made based on their opinion... they can become rather stubborn and resistent to a difference of opinion that would threaten the decision being made.

Because my girls do very well on respecting my authority.. we don't have arguements... even though we might have a difference of opinion on a given issue..

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/2/2008 10:50:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeIgnited

Let me tell you a story:

Early on in our relationship, my Master and I got into possibly the stupidest argument in the history of arguments (and I mean this in a completely non-hyperbolic way). It was about yak herders. Yak herders and whether the Nomads on the Mongolian steppe kept primarily yaks or horses (I'm an anthropology student and was taking a class on Nomads at the time). It went on for an entire night--dualing sources, attacks on credibility. Think Karl Rove but without the illegitimate children. Normally, and further on into our relationship, we're much more civil and can usually talk through things to a pleasant resolution. He allows me to speak my mind freely, which I think fosters good communication, especially since we're young and in many ways still feeling out ourselves as well as each other. He doesn't tend to play the "Becasue I said so" card, which is fortunate for me because it's not something I can accept easily. But to this day neither one of us is allowed to bring up yak herders.

So which was it--yaks or horses?

(in reply to BeIgnited)

RE: Settling disagreements - 10/3/2008 3:09:46 AM

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At this point, I have absolutely no worry that he's going to make an impulsive and on the spot decision without thinking through all the contingences particularly when it comes to day to day life stuff so I don't feel much need to argue with him or question him. We do have disaggreements and differences, but he's willing to hear me out and take my perspective into considerations, and we're generally respectful of each other so we don't get into out and out arguments. We're pretty good at avoiding the blame game, and can usually approach conflicts without getting caught up with who's right and who's wrong. As far as I'm concerned, its rare that lifes problems are a simple matter of right and wrong anyway, so I'm not likely to go there.

Only once, has he pulled the Dom card, and, in context, it was the best thing to do. I why'd an order and to get caught up in answering my why would have been counter productive especially since I was already upset about something he had nothing to do with ie an unresolved issue from a previous relationship. Pulling the Dom card, using phrases such as 'because I said so' is, sometimes, the best thing to do. In our relationship it works because he seems genuinely interested in hearing, and taking into account, my thoughts and hasn't overplayed that particular move.

I have been with d-types who's only response to disagreement and difference of opinion seemed to be pulling rank and reminding me of my place. Rather than facing up to challenge and dealing with it openly, they supressed it. That never went down so well.

< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 10/3/2008 3:12:48 AM >

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/3/2008 7:08:43 AM

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There are times when arguments need to be simply ended- not to "win" but simply because no more productiveness will come at that time by continuing. I also have no problem with a slave saying "Sir, I do not feel this is going to go anywhere good if we keep going, can we stop for now?"

People who need to WIN and feel like they are right by shutting someone else down or making them fear consequences generally don't have long term positive relationships.

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/3/2008 7:34:32 AM

Rover

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First, as has been noted previously, if the issue is about who is "right" then it just doesn't merit an argument. If the issue is factual, then look up the facts. If the issue is opinion, I've never asked a partner not to have her own opinion or forbidden her from expressing it. Opinions aside, I still decide what is done and how it's done.

Personally, I enjoy good discussions and debates (yeah, I know some of you are shocked) and will happily engage my partner in both. If it becomes contentious, then it's time to stop.

But if the issue is one of direction or action (what actions are decided to be undertaken, or not), then that's an entirely different story. That begins to infringe upon my role as Dominant in the relationship. When that happens (not "if" it happens... it's only a matter of time until the next time), I may choose to provide explanation and reason for my decision.

But there may also be times (protracted disagreement would rise to that occasion) when the only explanation offered is that's the way I want it to be, or that's what makes me happy. What other explanation could possibly be necessary? In those instances I am always "right".

John

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/3/2008 7:57:19 AM

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Fundamentally, you cannot WIN over someone who is allegedly your partner. If you're having a fight with your life partner, then you've already automatically lost... you are no longer partners. Now the only real question is do you want to lose or lose more. I prefer to keep a focus on us as a team which neatly avoids this sort of problem. Sweeping problems under the rug is a fool's errand... dom or not.

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/3/2008 10:10:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakkan
My question is, in any relationship, not just a D/s one, there are bound to be disagreements. Will the doms/dommes be tempted to "play the dom card" and avoid long arguments about who is right?

My owner will. Generally speaking, I'm given the opportunity to express my view on the situation at least one time, and in full. And he will always give a decision/opinion within a reasonable amount of time. Beyond that, it's up to him how far the discussion goes (or doesn't). If he says "no more" and I persist, I will get a caged time-out.

It works well for us - both are heard and understood and there is no arguing.

Sybilla

(in reply to zakkan)

RE: Settling disagreements - 10/3/2008 11:52:20 AM

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I'm taking this from a billboard you see around in London.

With regard to disagreements...

... it's good to witness that penny-dropping moment...

... but even better to create it.

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/3/2008 11:58:28 AM

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It's a LOT simpler in Gor!

The sub ALWAYS has the last word, and those last words always are: "yes, Master"

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/3/2008 12:01:23 PM

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I forgot to add that sometimes the penny-dropping moment does require a lot of patience..

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/3/2008 3:49:13 PM

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quote:

So which was it--yaks or horses?

(It was horses, but don't tell him I told you.

)

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/3/2008 3:59:07 PM

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I never argue. If I'm wrong, I accept it. No one is right all the time.

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/3/2008 4:05:15 PM

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The interpersonal relations between Master and slave do not lead to such nuance.

I win. You lose. Take off your pants.

End of convo.

6

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RE: Settling disagreements - 10/3/2008 4:30:11 PM

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In the beginning, we debated almost everything. However, as I learned to trust and found he was almost always right, we debate on important things and I decide to follow his advice--most of the time. I will come back and tell him he was right and I didn't follow his advice if I didn't make the right choice.

Arguments are not about respect, debates are. I prefer debating, listening and weighing opinions and options. We are at opposite ends of the spectrum in politics and nearly everything else so we have had to learn to agree to disagree. It works. We don't butt heads, we simply let the other person make their own decision.

Not every Gorean is about always being right and in control. Many of them respect and honor their free companion's wishes and desires even if they don't always get it. (the male/female thing) Afterall, as several have already stated, picking your battles is often the wisest course of action.

Sage.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

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