RE: YNSHO please on a training clause...

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RE: YNSHO please on a training clause... - 10/15/2008 7:54:47 PM

MadRabbit

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I don't really have any input.

I just wonder what the scene would be like if everybody stopped bullshit like this and just started interacting with each other like normal adults.

*plays "Imagine" in the background*

It's easy if you try....

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RE: YNSHO please on a training clause... - 10/15/2008 8:32:28 PM

SailingBum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: girlivy
Exactly my point, the ones who do not give a "rat's patootie" are quickly weeded out. Caring is another fine trait in a person...

No, you missed my point. But I don't think you're going to see it anyway. You're 44 years old... I would think the biggest "care" is that you feel you need a gatekeeper.

Cali

Dont waste your breath. Anyone who is 44 and doesn't have enuff fucking sense to make their own choices about who to date.... Well doesn't have enuff sense about who to date. Sheesh. Sounds more like a parole board.

BadOne

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RE: YNSHO please on a training clause... - 10/15/2008 8:58:53 PM

YourhandMyAss

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unless you're going to become his sub or join his family in some way permanantly after training, why does his house protocals matter once you're out seeking a new dom. His protocals won't be the new doms, and the new dom may not e ven have entirely diffrent protocals, and you'd just have to unlearn everything protocal wise and relearn the new doms.

quote:

ORIGINAL: girlivy

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I think this sort of thing makes her trainer hard.

I would like to ask her what, exactly, her trainer is "training" her and if these are transferable skills that work universally for all dominants.

Protocols that pertain to the House of the Noble Heart, along with allowing me a safe space to learn more about my likes and dislikes in the LS, and the can not do withouts.
Cheers!

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RE: YNSHO please on a training clause... - 10/15/2008 9:07:04 PM

YourhandMyAss

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A good example for instance of protocals of others I'd heard in the past not matching the new guy was my X Andrew. Hed id not want submissives he owned and was adressing to look at the floor, he wanted them to look him in the eye. After all he was not addressing the floor he was addressing you. So if I'd ever of gotten into the habbit of averting my eyes, he would of had to spend a lot of time untraining me on something he didn't want his sub to do.

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RE: YNSHO please on a training clause... - 10/15/2008 9:38:53 PM

CruelDesires

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FR.

Actually. I've known where some submissives feel a "need" to submit so badly that something like this situation works out perfectly for them until they find someone worthy of having a relationship with. As that "need" may cause them to overlook peoples shortcomings and ignore red flags, having someone there to act as a buffer or filter can be of a great assistance to them when it comes time to make out their selections. In return for that time and effort, they may exchange their time and favors as recompense. It is a fact of life people. Maybe the idea is so alien to you that you have to look down your noses at it or poopoo it as someone having no intelligence. Give that notion a thought before you dismiss them as idiots. Thank you.

C-D

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RE: YNSHO please on a training clause... - 10/15/2008 9:49:52 PM

marieToo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

FR.

Actually. I've known where some submissives feel a "need" to submit so badly that something like this situation works out perfectly for them until they find someone worthy of having a relationship with. As that "need" may cause them to overlook peoples shortcomings and ignore red flags, having someone there to act as a buffer or filter can be of a great assistance to them when it comes time to make out their selections. In return for that time and effort, they may exchange their time and favors as recompense. It is a fact of life people. Maybe the idea is so alien to you that you have to look down your noses at it or poopoo it as someone having no intelligence. Give that notion a thought before you dismiss them as idiots. Thank you.

C-D

I agree with this in general. I think though, that a lot of people have this perception (and maybe rightfully so) that trainers and mentors are out to take advantage of newbies by exploiting their naivete when it comes to something new that they've never experienced. I'm not saying that's what's happening in this instance, but it does happen a lot, and I think that's why a lot of people jump to this assumption, and have this stigma when it comes to "mentors/trainers".

I think if the OP believes this is helping her on some level, and if she isn't being played, then it may be beneficial to her to have this "guidance" at this point in her journey. And I don't think her age has much to do with it really, because some people find this stuff all of a sudden, and they are in some kind of frenzy mode and they don't know which way to turn or where to start. Yes, for a lot of people it IS just common sense, and for some others, they feel more comfortable seeking the guidance of someone who's been into this for a while. As long as this guy isn't taking advantage of her in some way, I don't see the harm in it.

< Message edited by marieToo -- 10/15/2008 9:50:47 PM >

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RE: YNSHO please on a training clause... - 10/15/2008 10:03:57 PM

SailingBum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

FR.

Actually. I've known where some submissives feel a "need" to submit so badly that something like this situation works out perfectly for them until they find someone worthy of having a relationship with. As that "need" may cause them to overlook peoples shortcomings and ignore red flags, having someone there to act as a buffer or filter can be of a great assistance to them when it comes time to make out their selections. In return for that time and effort, they may exchange their time and favors as recompense. It is a fact of life people. Maybe the idea is so alien to you that you have to look down your noses at it or poopoo it as someone having no intelligence. Give that notion a thought before you dismiss them as idiots. Thank you.

C-D

Look I didn't say not discusses it with someone. However having a boss discuss whether or not your "worthy" enuff to meet the 44 year old OP for coffee to get to know each other is lunacy. Yes it's really that simple. I reject your theory and your accusations that somehow this involves snobbery.

If she truely needs a security blankie get a dog.

BadOne

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RE: YNSHO please on a training clause... - 10/16/2008 12:13:20 AM

monywildcat

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My POV, is if you are okay with your "trainer" to screen any potential partners, then hey it's all you. Good luck with that. Personally? I would rather kiss me some frogs on my own, and laugh about them with my friends the next day over coffee. What may be an unacceptable person to your trainer, may have very well been your Knight in Shining Leather. Sorry about your luck. Now, nothing would be wrong with you saying "hey Mr. Trainer, this guy has been emailing me, we have been chatting, what do you think?" and share what you know and get feedback. But a gatekeeper?

But that's just me.

As for the whole training aspect in general? No, a "trainer" isn't going to be able to teach me that Daddy is allergic to Tide, or how much ice to put in that glass of soda. However, a trainer or mentor COULD provide me with first-hand experience with things that I haven't experienced yet, such as wax play, or needles, or shibari. In this regard, I can see the value in having someone take you under their wing.

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RE: YNSHO please on a training clause... - 10/16/2008 2:46:43 AM

JumpingJax

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I would not want a dominant who would agree to go through another dominant to get to me. For a number of reasons.

This made me think here... If a Dominate had to work an arrangement with another Dominate to get your ownership doesn't that border on slave trade? Which I know is acceptable practice for some - but wouldn't you be concerned that this new Dominate might feel like he can just trade you away in the future to someone else?

imho when you deal with a 3rd party it seems almost like a property transaction and less like a relationship between 2 people.

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RE: YNSHO please on a training clause... - 10/16/2008 4:39:20 AM

colouredin

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I had an experiance ages ago when someone that i had played with a few times started to try and set up meetings for me, I told him to bog off actually and set them up myself, I like to think that I know the type of people that I am attracted to better than someone else does,

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RE: YNSHO please on a training clause... - 10/16/2008 7:57:35 AM

leadership527

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OK, I've been thinking about this for a few days. My viewpoint in this story would be as someone who was evaluating the sub as a potential life-partner since I don't "play". If I had even gotten to the state where talking to the trainer was on the table, then I have already made some determinations about the potential suitability of the sub -- including the fact that I think she is a level-headed, mature individual. At that point, I would have to conclude that someone I respected (the sub) felt for reasons that seemed sufficient to her, that such a thing would be helpful to her. From my standpoint, it costs me nothing and demonstrates that I care about her fears and concerns even when I don't understand them myself. If this is all about the other dom "claiming" her, I'll find that out soon enough in which case I can back out of the situation gracefully until it resolves. The idea that this would somehow be a dominance game between myself and the other dominant is laughable -- it takes two to tango and I would not engage on that basis with him even if he wanted to. If she lost respect for me because I chose to do so, then great! I sure am glad that I found that out right away because there is no way that she'd ever be a life-partner for me. I need a partner who can see beyond such surface levels. I do not see this situation as "asking permission" from the trainer and even if I did construe it that way, I cannot for the life of me see how that affects my dominance. Last I checked, I still ask for lots of different permission as I go through my life. How is this any different? Whether or not my dominance is imperiled in someone else's eyes through such an action is really irellevant to me.

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RE: YNSHO please on a training clause... - 10/16/2008 10:15:26 AM

Jeptha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: monywildcat

...What may be an unacceptable person to your trainer, may have very well been your Knight in Shining Leather. Sorry about your luck. Now, nothing would be wrong with you saying "hey Mr. Trainer, this guy has been emailing me, we have been chatting, what do you think?" and share what you know and get feedback. But a gatekeeper? But that's just me.

I was thinking things along these lines.

If she's new, I can understand wanting to get a little experience, to get to know her likes and dislikes better before she gets into something that goes a lot further or involves a lot more commitment.

I also agree with the latter part: I can understand the value of having a confidante to consult with.
I think women sometimes get so many requests for their time that it becomes hard to seperate the wheat from the chaff, because they all start to resemble one another after awhile. (correct me if I'm way off base about that.)

If somebody you aren't committed to is actually screening your e-mails and deciding which ones you get to read, though, I'd find that odd and I probably would not be interested in pursuing it further - unless I felt there was something really compelling about your profile or I got to know you some other way first... But, if I casually stumbled across a profile with an arrangement like that, it would not initially appeal to me.

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RE: YNSHO please on a training clause... - 10/16/2008 11:49:32 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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We have a similar situation in our household, when someone outside the household wants to borrow, or even start a separate relationship with one of the servants in a 'training' collar with us (yes, we have trained some servants who weren't there for us-- they were there to learn some of the specific protocol styles and skills we teach... those folks were in 'training' collars... if anyone's curious about why and how, they can offlist me and I'll be happy to share our reasoning and process).

The reason that we encouraged our training s-types to run prospective new keepers through us was because these s-types were already committed to a training program, and we explain to them up front that while they're in training they're 'off the market', so to speak, because we're not keen on half-way measures, so ditching training mid-program is really frowned on. We ask them to tell anyone who approaches them that they are in a formal training program that required a contracted commitment, and if the d-type is interested in following through with to get in touch with us. This way, we can explain the training program to the person, and explain how important we believe it is for a person to finish what they've committed to... can let the person know about when we feel the s-type in question will be 'graduating', and can discuss the impressions we got with the s-type after the meeting... it gives breathing space. We wouldn't hold someone if xhe didn't want to stay, but we encourage following through on commitments as part of the program, and in the end, it benefits everyone involved.

The other time that I've told an s-type that it would be good to have potential d-types run past us before xhe made a decision is when an s-type came to me via a traumatic situation, for pastoral care. Especially if there was trauma or grief at the end of a previous relationship, I may encourage the person to plan on meeting newcomers with myself or another pastoral care provider or Keeper from our household present, and then discussing the meeting before any decision is reached. This slows down the process to a point where poorly working patterns of behavior have the chance to be re-evaluated prior to embarking on a new relationship.

It seems to me that it is in both parties best interests, as long as the ethical foundation for the training is in place, and the individual trainer isn't using the position as a way to manipulate and hold on to an s-type who wouldn't, under other circumstances, be interested in extending the relationship beyond training. I think it is valuable for someone who thinks that xhe needs this kind of support to be able to get it. Part of the disclosure, though, IMO, does need to be that some D-types will pass hir by as a prospect, because of the decision to involve a 3rd party in the process. Then the s-type can decide whether or not xhe wants the training under those terms and with those particular risks.

Calla Firestorm

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RE: YNSHO please on a training clause... - 10/16/2008 3:02:53 PM

akisha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JumpingJax

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I would not want a dominant who would agree to go through another dominant to get to me. For a number of reasons.

This made me think here... If a Dominate had to work an arrangement with another Dominate to get your ownership doesn't that border on slave trade? Which I know is acceptable practice for some - but wouldn't you be concerned that this new Dominate might feel like he can just trade you away in the future to someone else?

imho when you deal with a 3rd party it seems almost like a property transaction and less like a relationship between 2 people.

My gf was bought from her former Master by her current Master for 47 cents hehe

She had been part of a poly family in a trail period situation, tho the relationship didn't work out they remained very good freinds so when she met another guy the two Dominants got together and planned the sale for a lark during the next play party *S*

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