Collarchat.com

Join Our Community		 Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

RE: Is being a sub a subtle art?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 3:26:08 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
To All:

YMT
As Wickad says, we have the enduring problem of the two sexes 'coming from different planets'. So some degree of a "yes and no answer" is inevitable, I expect. I can't help thinking of that joke that was flying around the net a while ago: two control-boards representing the male and female sexual responses, respecitvely. The female control board was covered with knobs, buttons, dials and meters of all kinds. The male one just had an on-off switch. As for being 'who you are' - of course. That's always the bottom line.

CallaFBW
Ah - I guess things are bound to be more straightforward if you go for the seriously wimpy types. I'm not a frantically competitive type and few people would accuse me of being macho. But I couldn't be that wimpy no matter how hard I tried (now there's a sentence I never thought I'd ever say!)

Akasha
That was a subtle answer, but I think I grasped it nonetheless
If a sub is just shopping around for a lady to do "act A" to him and I'm number 64 on the list, chances are, I will not want to engage. I'm not surprised. That way lies sterility for both D and s, I'd imagine. It seems peculiar to me now. It's like, why would a sub want a snack when a feast is available? "Authentic vulnerability" is a good label for the target for me, too - but, as you say, the route there might well be complicated. .

LPslittleclip:
Oh yes. I didn't think I'd find a "one answer fits all Dommes" here. I'd expect there to be differing levels of debate allowed on different things from any given Domme.

CdnE:
Being a strong man in the vanilla world and also a submissive does seem to be a contradiction, and when I was brand spanking new at this I had quite the little freakout about it. Somehow I felt that if I gave in to what I wanted, I wouldn't be myself anymore. What started to get me over that was the realization that there was only one person who I was going to really be submissive to. After actually getting a taste of it I discovered how it balanced me, and for a time afterwards I felt more like myself and more relaxed / confident doing my "vanilla man" things. On top of that with things that I find extemely difficult to do, and challenging to my identity, I find it helps to consider that they're not things that I'm choosing to do...but that are being done for the benefit of someone who I have placed an incredible amount of trust in.

That's both fascinating and very, very encouraging. I don't think that I'd feel my identity challenged in a D/s relationship
quite as much as you imply was the case for you but aside from that, everything you say there chimes in a big way.

Ventratrix
Of course you're a "real woman". I was beginning to form a coherent overall conclusion there - then you come along and upset it all. Utterly typical of an authentic woman ;-) I'm not sure I could draw up a list of 'things that I want', as such, because such things change every day. In fact, every time I look at this site I think of something new. It doesn't matter - they all feed the same feeling, the same need and desire in me - to, well, submit..
It makes little sense, on reflection, that I try to keep my likes and dislikes quiet from my own, (hypothetical) Domme. It probably wouldn't work for more than 24 hours anyway. It wouldn't work at all if that Domme happened to have read this thread: she'd just demand I spill the beans and that would be that. But, until time as she and I meet, I think I'll stay a little quiet. Aforementioned reasons.

Shakti:
No. As with other posts I've seen you make, I know full well you have no fantasies about unconsenting partners, nor subs who have conflicts about being submissive. Maybe some Dommes who are 'new to living as Dommes' get a buzz out of it, but I could see it draining the hell out of them eventually. In fact, I could imagine it being downright embittering and disheartening.
The difference between someone who gets true joy from pleasing me and someone who has to force himself is just night and day--and I'm not interested in the guy who has to force himself. Life is just too short. If you want to be miserable, get a dayjob, not a domme.
. . . All that is how come I ended up here on this website in the first place.  If you need to be a sub, get on with it, because life's too short. 









_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 4:42:21 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Yes!  Subtleties.  I can see that the 'geisha girl' analogy is growing on you, Sea, like it is me - though I do have difficulty with the idea of either of us in white powdered faces and large pins in our hair.  My own favourite is telling a Mistress how much she might want a bath - but a sub can get seriously nasty results if done the wrong way. 

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 4:44:38 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		I happen to have a weakness for cheeky subs.
 
Oh lordy, Venatrix, I've barely even begun . . .

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 4:46:47 AM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
For instance if a sub is craving a flogging, he can't just say, Mistress would you please flog me? Instead he should take the subtle approach and say:

Mistress, do you remember that time when you flogged me, and I squirmed and said ouch, and you just laughed and you left all these welts and bruises on me? Do you remember that, Mistress?


The latter approach wouldn't get him flogged at my house.  I really dislike this kind of "subtle".  I find it rather manipulative, and it kind of ticks me off.  If I'm asked, "Would you please flog me?", my answer will almost always be yes, although it might not happen right at that moment.


(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 4:53:56 AM   
MsStarlett


Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		Peon.... Yes, being a sub is a subtle art. 

Let's put all this in terms you can understand.  The Perfect Fantasy Sub (for me anyway) is Lancelot.  (Until he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and everything went to hell in a hand basket.)  He is the most biggest, strongest, bravest, most viral specimen of male human flesh.  He has his own lands and wealth to sustain him... yet he gives up everything to be near the woman he adores.  (Let's leave Arthur out of this... it's my fantasy.)  While he is at the top of his profession, he falls to his knees at a mere glance from his Lady.  If she but murmurs in her sleep that her morning tea would taste better in the Holy Grail, he will charge out to conquer the mongrel hordes and slay every dragon in the realm to bring it to her.  Should she come to a puddle in the garden during her morning stroll, he would throw his body into it so that she might trod across his back and keep her dainty shoes pristine.  If that single perfect rose growing in the thicket would bring a smile to her face, he would plunge into the thorns naked to pluck it for her.... then die of tormented humiliation when that momentary smile turns to a tear as she explains that now the bloom will fade because of his dire error in cutting it from the stem....  Yet he never, ever thinks himself worthy to even touch the hem of her gown.


The reality?  A very sweet young man with beautiful green eyes who makes coffee for his Lady every morning and emails a photo of it her.  Once a month, he drives four hours to reach her so that he can place that cup into her hand.  He does menial chores that clear her schedule so that she can spend some time doing what she wants to do.  He offers up his body as a whipping post to bring that sadistic smile to her face and relieve the stress that they both share.


_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 5:00:23 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks, slaveskin.  You try to get to the basics of the psychology here, which is what I always haver towards.  There is something inherently contradictory at the base of D/s.  I'm well-warned by Shakti and others (by their example as much as what they've explicitly said) not to expect the same from every Domme.  That's another subject of its own.  For me, though, I've got my conclusion, I think, now. 

Another thread produced the observation that there's a difference between a sub and a masochist.  Fine - I think so too.  A sub gets his joy out of serving - yes, that's me, that's what I want to be able to do.  For a Domme, my Domme, and no-one else.  Straightforward.  The contradiction is tolerable and manageable as far as I can see.

As for masochism: that's more of a recent fascination for me.  This is where the contradictions really pile up.  I've got a feeling that hatred (for oneself, not the Domme) and love feed off each other and it's this that brings the real explosion.

However, this could all be me over-thinking everything.  Who cares?  If it feels great, do it . . . .



_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to slaveskin)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 5:09:40 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		OK, Ms S, thanks for articulating that in a way that this poor boy can comprehend   I think you played merry havoc with the Camelot stories there but, like you say, it's your fantasy.  (Lancelot - not Galahad?)

I do love the idea of your "green eyed boy" being used as a whipping post as a "stress reliever for both parties".  Thanks for a rich variety of images to get me through my lunchtime  . . .

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 5:20:02 AM   
MsStarlett


Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		My pleasure.  I like the Sir Walter Raleigh twist myself.

But do you see the point that I was targeting?  The perfect sub is just as much a fantasy as the perfect Domme.  The joy of a relationship between any two people is when you figure out exactly what really is important to both yourself and to your partner.  Those are often very subtle things.


_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 5:31:25 AM   
MISTRESSKUMA


Posts: 226
Joined: 8/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
For instance if a sub is craving a flogging, he can't just say, Mistress would you please flog me? Instead he should take the subtle approach and say:

Mistress, do you remember that time when you flogged me, and I squirmed and said ouch, and you just laughed and you left all these welts and bruises on me? Do you remember that, Mistress?


The latter approach wouldn't get him flogged at my house.  I really dislike this kind of "subtle".  I find it rather manipulative, and it kind of ticks me off.  If I'm asked, "Would you please flog me?", my answer will almost always be yes, although it might not happen right at that moment.




Um yeah we too think that approach is patronizing and condenscending.

(in reply to MmeGigs)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 5:38:16 AM   
MISTRESSKUMA


Posts: 226
Joined: 8/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wickad



The only way this is a paradox is if men believe women are inferior. 



Wickad



Those that believe "real men," as peeboy put it, aren't subs, are still overcompensating their manhood after all these years. get a clue, most households have the woman in charge wearing the pants anyway, and it's nothing new. Only difference is now female dominance isnt hidden so much anymore. but that's o.k. tho men will be extinct soon as their gene the tiny 'y' is degenerating and crumpling with each generation .

(in reply to Wickad)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 5:40:39 AM   
FullfigRIMaam


Posts: 718
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: atypicalsub
Many (most?) Dommes want to see male subs doing something the subs don't want to do, but want the subs to simply enjoy the fact that it is making the Domme excited. 
I hope that isn't true of most dominas.  I definitely wouldn't want a situation where he is always ambivalent or hesitant in doing what I need or ask.   In fact, I think a relationship only has long term potential if the desires/kinks are compatible.  For myself, submission with minimal friction would be ideal.  Sure I get amused by occasionally thinking of something out of left field, but mostly what excites me is his being a compatible sub, not one I need to coerce/ test/push, etc.  M

_____________________________

"touching was and still is and will always be the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni
"Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence." Erich Fromm

(in reply to atypicalsub)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 5:54:54 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		The perfect sub is just as much a fantasy as the perfect Domme.  The joy of a relationship between any two people is when you figure out exactly what really is important to both yourself and to your partner.  Those are often very subtle things.

OK, gotcha, Ms S.  It's actually a big relief to hear you say that.  Of course.  It's only natural that things should be that way - as with the formation of any relationship between two people.


_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 6:02:59 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Mistress K,

Those that believe "real men," as peeboy put it, aren't subs, are still overcompensating their manhood after all these years.  I hope you don't think this is my view?  I just saw it as a possible source of contradictions in practice.  As I learnt many years ago, I don't have to try to be a man, I already am one.

And by "peeboy" do you mean me?  Believe it or not, the matter of peeing-on never entered my mind when I came up with "peon" as a nick.  I just looked in a thesaurus for synonyms of "servant, dogsbody, slaves" and thought that word would do..   

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to MISTRESSKUMA)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 6:04:16 AM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wickad

The only way this is a paradox is if men believe women are inferior. 
Wickad



agreed. if there's equality (which people will generally spaz out and attest vehemently to believeing in if asked) then there shouldn't be any sort of paradox here. if submitting to a woman makes you less of a man after you've competed and won brilliantly in the "world of men," then that says something about the way you truly view the relationships between men and women. that's saying that she is inferior to the men you've battled with all day, so then why submit to her in the first place? i can sort of see this as the flip side of how it's sometimes assumed that submission on the part of a female to a male is just some sort of biological default.

also, i wouldn't say it's just a thing about Dommes to want their subs to do things they don't want to do, you hear all the time about the same being done by Doms. =p no one ever questions when a femsub does something for her Dom that she may be reluctant about, and she doesn't get special points for it, it's all chalked up to her "need to please" her Dom; even if she doesn't always like everything they do together, she does it to please him, and therein lies her reward, or whatever. =p

i imagine being a Domme is complicated, to say the least. =p

(in reply to Wickad)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 6:13:30 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MISTRESSKUMA
quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
For instance if a sub is craving a flogging, he can't just say, Mistress would you please flog me? Instead he should take the subtle approach and say:

Mistress, do you remember that time when you flogged me, and I squirmed and said ouch, and you just laughed and you left all these welts and bruises on me? Do you remember that, Mistress?


The latter approach wouldn't get him flogged at my house.  I really dislike this kind of "subtle".  I find it rather manipulative, and it kind of ticks me off.  If I'm asked, "Would you please flog me?", my answer will almost always be yes, although it might not happen right at that moment.


Um yeah we too think that approach is patronizing and condenscending.


It was a joke and a play on a skit that Chris Farley used to do on Saturday Night Live.

While I wrote my prior post for sake of silliness, pondering it further makes me think I can see this approach working for me. If I were to use it, I would use it with a domme who was aware of my tendency for silliness and humor. And I would use it with the right tone and body language to let her know it was being said in spirit of humor. Such a delivery--a request for play wrapped in playful humor--can bring a positive response with a domme who appreciates this type of humor. With it known that it is not an attempt at manipulation, it instead becomes flirtatious and is more creative than a literal request. Most of the dynamics I have experienced have allowed for such playfulness, and for some women playfulness and creativity is a turn-on.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 10/22/2008 6:20:56 AM >

(in reply to MISTRESSKUMA)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 6:17:13 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Well put.  Me likewise.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 6:27:55 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MISTRESSKUMA
Those that believe "real men," as peeboy put it, aren't subs, are still overcompensating their manhood after all these years. get a clue, most households have the woman in charge wearing the pants anyway, and it's nothing new. Only difference is now female dominance isnt hidden so much anymore. but that's o.k. tho men will be extinct soon as their gene the tiny 'y' is degenerating and crumpling with each generation .


I sense what you are saying is that some men are threatened by growing empowerment of women. The question that comes to my mind is what makes you feel threatened by men?

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to MISTRESSKUMA)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 6:53:44 AM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline 		I have the solution to the questions you raise in this profile in two words:  Geisha boys!

How do you look with little sticks poking out of your hair?

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 6:55:11 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Or maybe I'm creating a bucketful of hypothetical problems that don't exist in practice.  I'm assured I'm quite adept at that.


Yup, I'm going to vote for that. Here's one way to break it down...

#1) You are a smart, competent, achiever of a guy
#2) You find some woman who thrills you and to whom you wish to submit
#3) You turn all of those "smart, competent, achiever" abilities of yours to this new goal of submitting
#4) You excel at your new goal of submission the same as you did all your "other" goals.

Seriously, what is the problem here? How is you setting a goal for yourself and achieving it in any way "unmanly"? I'll go further and ask, how is this different than any number of other situations you've faced in your past. I'm assuming you have bosses in the past you submitted to. Most people have. Personally, I say "screw the whole competing in this arena or that arena". When you submit to your dominant, you are not competing with them. This is not somehow some competition which you lost and you now are forced to submit.

I'm going to encourage you to look very very closely at yourself and try to figure out how, exactly, in the cold hard light of day submitting is "unmanning" you. I can guarantee you that that is not the only possible interpretation so why do YOU interpret it that way? I think you've got a nasty problem buried down deep in there that's going to need to be brought out into the open and dealt with. Might as well start now.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 10/22/2008 7:10:55 AM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		I believe the subtlety comes in being able to be a man in the way our society socializes us to be - responsible provider, protector, strong and able, willing to face challenges or even danger...

And being able to determine where and how your Lady wants those attributes used...and when it is time to give them over temporarily in favor of Her needs for domination.

I love this part of submission. 

It means that I am able to hold my Lady when she is having trouble in her life - let her rest her head on my chest and let her cry.  I am able to be forward and a little aggressive in my passion for Her, be a sounding board for ideas, move furniture, be protective in a dark parking lot, fix things in Her house and provide Her that male energy that She very much wants in life...

and then...

Give that power over to Her, kneeling before her and accepting Her restraints, Her lash, and give myself completely to Her pleasure and power.

For me specifically, it means understanding how to balance the male and female parts of me in our relationship and when to be in what head space - based on what She needs.

I too am very much attracted by the Geisha analogy and I find that I have some parallels in my service as I perform cooking, bathing and beauty services for my Lady.

Really good topic P! 


_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.172