Dari
Posts: 192
Joined: 10/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Geisha girls, trained for years to be submissive, but artfully submissive - that's what finally prompts this question. I don't want to push the comparison between geisha girls and male subs too far because that would be too, well, weird. But:
I keep seeing comments from Dommes along the lines of "It's really simple. The sub that I want is one who obeys and wants to do just that". Yet, there's a mass of contradictions involved, as far as I can see - and they have to be absorbed before the point when a sub even begins to write his profile. 'Make it clear you're a sub', I was told, 'but do not list your likes and dislikes. A Domme will see the 'likes' as a list of demands and she'll place you in the category of "one those standard, tiresome kink-fans who wants to control from underneath"'. Yet, how else do you express your need to be a sub otherwise? I'm pretty damned proficient at writing ( though I say it myself) but I found it hard. What about other men who can't write as well? More fundamentally: how does a man have a long-term desire to be submissive without that desire 'fixing' on certain fantasies?
Speaking for myself alone, when I read a man's profile here, I want to know about them. My ideal read would be:
1) Things that he enjoys doing from a vanilla perspective. He likes Sci-Fi, or Fantasy, or plays video games, or likes football or whatever - those are the things I'd prefer to see written about. For those who don't have an ability to write well, a simple list of things that are enjoyed works fine:
"I'm 24, I like football, soccer, and hockey. I read a lot of books, and I majored in Mathematics. A couple of my favorite authors are David Weber and John Ringo." (please note: this is not MY list of things.)
2) A few things about the type of person he's looking for, maybe even a little about the type of submissive he is:
"I'm exploring a bit of masochism at the moment, but I'm primarily a service sub. I prefer to keep things private, but my submission is never far from my mind, when I'm with a dominant woman. I'm looking for casual partners for play as I explore, friends to talk to in order to expand my horizons, and maybe eventually someone I can be with permanently."
For likes and dislikes? Fill out the check boxes. Even if you don't write well, you can select check boxes, and do the likes/dislikes/loves/hates/lives for/hard limits just fine. When I read profiles, I look first at their vanilla things. Then at their kinks. That tells me whether I'm going to message him or not, and if I do message him, whether it's as friends, or with the potential for play, or what.
It's not about subtlety - as another woman said, I don't really care to be a service Top. I do want to know what my partners enjoy - or don't - but I don't care about some stranger's idea of perfection. I think that kind of thing is pretty limiting anyway, and it's a large turn-off when I try to see if I want to talk to someone, and am faced with their fantasies.
quote:
ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Then I read of Dommes who want to find 'real men who are subs'. That is, Dommes who don't want wimps. Fine - but are such Dommes aware of just how much of a contradiction they're asking for in such a man? I mean, it's such an enormous paradox. You, the sub, have succeeded in a male culture that demands that you compete and win yet, somehow, you have to reconcile that with submitting to your female partner. How could that be anything but difficult for any human mind?
I don't think it's a paradox. On the other hand, it's not what I'm looking for either. I have no interest in wimps, but I do love the full-on, submissive in every area of life kind of man. That doesn't mean he has to be a doormat, or dependent upon me for everything, but submissive no matter what, with no desire to lead in anything? Mmmmmm. Tasty.
quote:
ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
OK, assume you've found such a sub anyway, and now he's your partner. Or one of your partners. You don't want him to be an automaton - if you did, you'd be happy with a blow-up doll. You want him to have his own brain and his own desires. But he's got to want them just so much, but no more. The level of his desires has to be perfectly tuned - too much, and he's dominating you; too little, and he's a bore and you might as well stick with your vibe.
I don't have a vibe, anyway. ;) I want a man who has wants and desires, and wants them less than he wants to please me, yes. I make sure that my subs are taken care of - I expect them to make sure I'm taken care of. However, I don't feel threatened or dominated when he expresses his wants, desires, needs. I like strong opinions - as long as he understands that I'll make the decisions I make, and that's not always going to be to pander to his every whim, then where's the conflict?
quote:
ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
The clincher for me re that is that enormous and still-growing thread on hetero men sucking cock. I've seen the same answer, time and again, from Dommes - just as I've had it from past vanilla girlfriends: "I want to see you aroused, but against your will". How the fack does that work, exactly?
I have no idea how that works. I do know that I enjoy it when my subs do things for me that I know they hate, but that they're happy to do because they know it makes me happy. It's not a matter of arousing, it's a matter of the demonstration, by the action, that they're putting me ahead of their own desires. It's a real turn-on. And gives me a good reason to fulfill some of his dreams too.
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RE: Is being a sub a subtle art? - 
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