RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 6:28:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Well, right off the top of my head, I would say because she is your mother. However I do realize that not all families are as close as mine is. I guess I was just lucky that way.

She is my mother, not my ward.

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 7:35:02 AM

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This question of how much obligation we have to our family and extended family is going to draw a lot of different answers. Some will be the answers of the tested, some will be holier than thou hypotheticals. I doubt any minds will be swayed on this.

As I was raised, we help out in a crisis, but the day-to-day is not our problem. Leaving $100 in the basket of a coffeemaker is strictly optional, and so is giving the ___'s some decent clothes at Christmas.

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 8:50:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

As I have stated, some of us have something called pride, perhaps you do not have any so asking your nieces and nephews for handouts would not bother you....

A great many of us have pride. That particular vice, however, is categorically irrelevant to the discussion at hand, given that the One's aunt is already receiving a "handout" from the State of Massachusetts, and formerly from the federal government.

Which ultimately comes back to my original point in this thread: If people were more willing to help (or, to use your construction, give "handouts") to family members down on their luck, government-funded--taxpayer-funded--welfare arguably would not ever be needed.

I just do not agree with you. I have received state help. I have also paid my fair share of state and fed taxes. I would rather do it that way then to burden my extended family...

I see a difference between extended family and immediate family.. an aunt is extended family.

Edited to add... if a person is unfortunate enough to have nothing but poor relations, I suppose they would just be fucked if they came into hard times under your view of the universe

Also, I am one of these people that knows something, that the second family gives you something they expect you to answer for it. I have seen it one too many times. If a person accepts money then every cent they spend comes under scrutiny... often for a lot longer than their problems last. No thanks, I would rather keep my economic stuff to myself.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 11/2/2008 8:54:43 AM >

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 8:50:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

She got herself in the situation she is in. It's not my place to try and save her, even if I could.

Would you allow the rest of community that same disinterest?

Since when were you interested in "the collective" and in mutual solidarity ?

I'm not. Not even the least little bit. Hence the question.

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 8:54:13 AM

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quote:

I just do not agree with you. I have received state help. I have also paid my fair share of state and fed taxes. I would rather do it that way then to burden my extended family...

Understood. I would prefer people care more for their extended families and thereby reduce the overall tax burden.

(Which, as lower taxes have generally positive effects on the overall economy, has the potential to reduce the overall need for help from any source. As Kennedy observed: "A rising tide lifts all ships.")

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 8:55:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

I just do not agree with you. I have received state help. I have also paid my fair share of state and fed taxes. I would rather do it that way then to burden my extended family...

Understood. I would prefer people care more for their extended families and thereby reduce the overall tax burden.

(Which, as lower taxes have generally positive effects on the overall economy, has the potential to reduce the overall need for help from any source. As Kennedy observed: "A rising tide lifts all ships.")

I edited my last post

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 9:01:48 AM

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quote:

if a person is unfortunate enough to have nothing but poor relations, I suppose they would just be fucked if they came into hard times under your view of the universe

Actually, the only time people are fucked is when their relatives adopt a posture of
"She got herself in the situation she is in. It's not my place to try and save her, even if I could."

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 9:01:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

This question of how much obligation we have to our family and extended family is going to draw a lot of different answers. Some will be the answers of the tested, some will be holier than thou hypotheticals. I doubt any minds will be swayed on this.

As I was raised, we help out in a crisis, but the day-to-day is not our problem. Leaving $100 in the basket of a coffeemaker is strictly optional, and so is giving the ___'s some decent clothes at Christmas.

That is true and what I was pointing out is where's the line in obligation?

A couple years back, I helped out one of my uncles who was going through a hard time. He had been laid off from a very good job some years back and was relegated to work a very low wage job to get by. However the bills mounted and they were forced to file bankruptcy in the midst of that his wife started cheating, ran out on him (with his kids) and left him in tremendous debt.

Since his wife was gone and they lived off of two incomes, he could not afford to live in his apartment any longer, so I offered to let him stay at my place rent free/utility free/ until he got on his feet again. I even let him have his own room.

I was in a position to do that at the time, but with the understanding that he would save his money and actively seek out an affordable place for himself, so that in several months he could move. Did he do that? No. In addition before he moved in I asked him if he would do things like run take me to the grocery store when needed, due to my anxieties (and fact I wasn't driving at the time). At first he was fine with that, but after a month, he was complaining.

However, when I bought food for the home it was for everyone and I never stated that he couldn't eat with us and so on. I would even treat him to dinner out from time to time. I really empathized with him and wanted to see him get on his feet.

However I started to notice things that really began to bother me. One, as I stated, he was not actively bothering to look for a place

All he would do was come home from work and talk to his young girlfriend on the cell phone for hours. Then, he started making plans to go on vacations with some of the people he worked with. He worked for an airline so could get standby flights for free to where ever. I thought, now wait, who goes on vacation (even for a weekend) broke? So I knew that he was not saving his money.

Then at one point he went out to see his wife and kids in the State they moved to and he comes back, with some crazy suggestion to me that it might be a good idea to let his wife and kids move in, since things weren't working out for her and she wanted to come back. WTF!!!

My own financial situation started to change and my bills grew and do you know this man never offered me a dime. Finally I came out and said, listen, how is your apartment hunting going? He said, well he still hadn't found an affordable place. I said, well do you think you will have one before Christmas, because things are getting tight around here and I'll have to ask you for some help if you continue to stay. Well he didn't like that, shortly later, I asked him if he could help on the utitlity bill. He gave me 70 dollars.

That's all I ever got from him and he finally did move out but our relationship was never the same. He was really offish to me from then on and we use to be close.

So basically, that's only one story I have about 'helping' family.

I'm all for helping family, but only when I can and how I can. However when I hit hard times my 'family' is nowhere to be seen.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 9:05:03 AM

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quote:

Also, I am one of these people that knows something, that the second family gives you something they expect you to answer for it. I have seen it one too many times. If a person accepts money then every cent they spend comes under scrutiny... often for a lot longer than their problems last. No thanks, I would rather keep my economic stuff to myself.

Well, if a person is accepting state help (i.e., from me, the taxpayer), yeah, I expect them to account for how they use that largesse.

If you value your privacy, I do understand that. I have never even taken so much as an unemployment check, because I value my privacy (and my independence) far too much. Maintaining privacy and accepting assistance of any form are and ought to be mutually exclusive options.

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 9:15:14 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
Well, if a person is accepting state help (i.e., from me, the taxpayer), yeah, I expect them to account for how they use that largesse.

I hope you will extend this scrutiny to the private businesses who have just inherited 700 billion bucks worth of public money.

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 9:16:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Members of our family have been known to leave cash when visiting a struggling, proud relative's (immediate as well as extended) house in a place where it would be found later

That would offend me, but then again I was raised that just isn't done... pushing my help on people who have let me know they do not want it. If I tell someone I do not want their help, I mean it.

It would offend me as well.

Using my fathers family as an example. He is the youngest of 17 (yes, 17) and is the most successful in monetary matters. Every couple of months his siblings have hit him up for cash, as have their children and their childrens children. I have over 100 first cousins and there is no feasible way I can track their bank accounts, nor should I have to simply because I am related to them.

Unless they come to me and ask for help. Its sad how many of them have done just that, hoping that I can finagle money out of my father to give to them. Its sadder that they don't even see 'me', just the link of family. Responsibility for others is important, yes. However it is not a one way street.

Is my father supposed to hold his wallet out simply because his relations didn't work as hard?
Is he supposed to continue this bullshit concept of entitlement that so many have adopted?

If someone is struggling then they should be forced to accept family help even if they put themselves in that place, even if they don't want the help?

We do not know the full story. We don't know if she begged for help and was turned aside nor do we know if she kept up a facade of needing no help while sinking in reality.

Its all guesswork at this point.

One thing that strikes me is how some posters in this thread demand that Obama should be assisting her, yet those same posters are against 'government handouts' (aka social progams to help those in need).

I guess that Mrs McCain had no responsibility in sharing her inheritance with her half sister?...

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 9:21:58 AM

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CL... living in a state funded Project is far from being given a handout. It is reported that she works, that means she earns money and pays rent. It is not being paid for her. State funded housing is affordable housing that is often lower in rents than your average apartment making it possible for someone earning less than 30K a year to have a roof over their head. In New York this can mean that while a 550 sq ft studio apartment might go for 1800$ a month, a family of 4 who don't make nearly that much or an elderly person struggling on soc security can get an apartment for 800$ a month. While rarely are they in the best areas of the cities, and crime rates can be high, many of the people living in them are paying rent, utilities and raising their families as best as they can. Yes it can be welfare subsidized but if you are working you are paying your own rent.

poenkitten

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 9:27:35 AM

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quote:

CL... living in a state funded Project is far from being given a handout.

State funded == taxpayer (me) supported == "handout". It is a form of assistance, no matter how it's structured.

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 9:33:58 AM

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~FR~

I'm not quite getting how the apartment went from being reserved for disabled access to public housing. I'm also not quite getting how 'innocent until proven guilty' got left by the wayside because of two anonymous 'sources'. I'm also not getting how we 'know' that a judge ordered her to leave the country four years ago and that we 'know' that she didn't do that .. (as opposed to leaving then returning or something like that..) and I'm most curious as to how the liberal media, long accused of bias is suddenly the paragon of virtue and a reliable source of information.

Eh, I'm floating around in space right now .. maybe it will come to me when I get back down to Earth.

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 9:46:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
I'm not quite getting how the apartment went from being reserved for disabled access to public housing.

Straight from the article, actually:

quote:

a disabled-access flat on a rundown public housing estate in South Boston

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 9:49:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackPhx
living in a state funded Project is far from being given a handout.

Nonsense. Worse, these subsidized housing programs, Section 8 in particular, drive up housing costs for people who earn little, but don't qualify for assistance.

These programs don't take from the rich to help the poor, they take the bread from the mouths of working families.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 9:55:27 AM

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The area in which we live has several section 8 apartments, but many are there because they own dogs, not because they get the public housing. Why jump to the conclusion that she's getting public housing when she very well may not be?

I really don't care that much about this .. for me, it's not a campaign issue, but if it were, I'd be more than willing to wait for some real facts rather than rely on a few unnamed sources. Backwards B girl should have been a lesson in that regard.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 9:57:54 AM

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I haven't come across any denials of the deportation order, Bita. Even the Obama campaign is just saying he didn't know.

As for the housing, here is a decent article on the particulars, and the silver lining for Obama.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/politics/2008/view.bg?articleid=1129421&srvc=home&position=rated

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 10:19:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

if a person is unfortunate enough to have nothing but poor relations, I suppose they would just be fucked if they came into hard times under your view of the universe

Actually, the only time people are fucked is when their relatives adopt a posture of
"She got herself in the situation she is in. It's not my place to try and save her, even if I could."

Wow, you really are Pollyanna in your world view.... because many people do not even have a lot of family, many people live vast distances from what little family they do have.

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(in reply to celticlord2112)

RE: Obama's beloved Auntie Zietuni - 11/2/2008 10:23:48 AM

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quote:

I guess that Mrs McCain had no responsibility in sharing her inheritance with her half sister?...

Remember... this thread is all about Obama (snickering) we are not supposed to bring up hypocrisy about how Republicans (many against state aid for those who are less fortunate then themselves,, which Obama isn't) treat their extended relations like trash... such as dumping their wife for a better richer model

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(in reply to camille65)

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