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RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 12:55:17 AM

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If my partner told me to "be ready for him" at a certain time and then came home a hour or two later, I would be pretty miffed as well..

If he hadn't said "be ready" I would not have a problem with it .

I'm talking about a PT D/s relationship not a 24/7 M/s

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RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 8:23:17 AM

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You don't get over it until he's demonstrated that he has changed. And he demonstrates that by not dropping the ball anymore. Instead he accepts that either he keeps his word every single time barring emergencies or he doesn't merit your trust and as deep a level of submission, if any. Ball's in his court.

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RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 10:23:32 AM

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quote:

i have a lot of issues from things that have happened to me in my life that prevent me from trusting very easily...this issue manifests itself in my need for Him to do as He promises.

From experience with trust issues---REMEMBER these are YOUR issues. It's not fair to push someone else's breech of trust onto an another person. Just an FYI most men have no concept of time---it's no biggy---it's best not to sweat the small stuff.

(in reply to yellowtail)

RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 10:31:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yellowtail

thank y/You all for your attention and responses....it is nice to read other p/People's perspectives, sometimes i think that's all i really need to put my mind at ease...

a few points....when i said that what He did may not be a big deal to others i really meant that....He has NOT abused me physically..nor has He cheated on me...in the end the issue is a matter of not doing something that He said He would.

i have a lot of issues from things that have happened to me in my life that prevent me from trusting very easily...this issue manifests itself in my need for Him to do as He promises. no matter how big or small the actual thing is that He says He will do, i absolutly need Him to carry through on it. if He doesn't, i can't let it go. He knows this about me...and is very careful about what He says He will do because He doesn't want to hurt me. The incident in particular that started all of this was He told me He would be home at a certain time....mind you He picked the time, not me.......He did not come home at that time....He came home late....

right before He left i said, "this isn't going to be a situation where you lose track of time, end up seeing someone...have a conversation...then call me later and say, gee I'm sorry...I'm on my way now..." ..and He said no, that He would only stay for X amount of time, and he would be home at exactly X time and i should be ready for Him when He got home.

well what happend? exactly as i predicted....He ran into someone as He was leaving...and bam..there goes the time....

this is not a matter of Him intentionally hurting me...this is a matter of Him being completly scatter brained and not thinking.

i just don't know how to open up to Him again...i feel so closed off right now.

and also as a side note i have communicated explicitly how this has made me feel, He has told me how this has made Him feel. i don't think this is a matter of crossed lines...we both are on the same page....but i don't know how to give negative or positive reinforcement towards getting Him to change this behavior, and keeping true to our roles.

Um ... hmm.

Talk to him about the issue (again) and if it bothers you so much that you can't move past it, then move on to someone new.

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RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 10:35:44 AM

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quote:

exactly as i predicted....He ran into someone as He was leaving...and bam..there goes the time....

I think you are making your own life very complicated. That is of course your prerogative, but you're not coping with it very well.

You have a Master who is also your husband. You have personal trust issues that you allow to impact your current relationship. You have expectations that you are not willing to adjust according to circumstances.

I don't think you're going to be happy until and unless you unravel all those things. And I would especially like to caution you that it is a really bad idea to allow your trust issues to impinge on your relationship. You have personal issues that aren't related to him (or Him), deal with them. Don't bring them into your marriage. They are capable of only one thing: wrecking your relationship. Take responsibility. And adjust to the capabilities of the other person. And be aware that if you have a "fits any size" relationship, you've picked the hardest way of living together. Most people find being married without the D/s dynamic enough of a job, anything beyond that requires hard work - on your part, regardless of whoever else needs to work on it. Remember: you are in charge of making you happy, nobody else is.

(in reply to yellowtail)

RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 10:41:55 AM

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quote:

The fact that he's continually late isn't your problem, my dear, it's HIS.

Uh-uh. Wrong. The problem is always on the side of the person with the expectation, and can only be solved there. If your partner has a behavioural pattern that annoys you, you CAN change your expectations, you CANNOT change the other person. It isn't a problem to him, it doesn't annoy him, he does it because he gets something out of it. And if someone isn't inconvenienced by their own actions, they won't change them. I'll go one step further: if someone is habitually annoyed by someone else's response, they may "go off" that person.

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RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 10:50:30 AM

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I grew up in a house with a man like that and I am now a slave with someone who does this on a regular basis though his is work related and not social related. Alandra and I are both amused by it and very rarely let it get us twisted up in knots.

I think feeling betrayed by this behavior is overkill and that is on you to work through and not him to adjust his behavior.

In our house, if I were to be so overemotional by this behavior, then he would solve it very simply by not giving me any expectation of when he would be home. That is pretty much the way it works most times in our house anyway. He will say, "I will try to be home by X" or "I should make it home by X, but if something comes up I will call as soon as I can". About the only time we get a very specific time is when he is about 10 - 20 minutes from the house and is already heading home. There are times that we have sat dressed and waiting for him to come so that we could go out because he spent more time that he expected.

For us, he is in charge and if he wants to come home later, then we are expected to deal with it in an appropriate manner. Feeling betrayed by this is not appropriate in our house; it is seen as being overly dramatic and unreasonable. Being disappointed and expressing that in an appropriate way is completely acceptable. Expecting to him conform to our idea of how he should behave is highly unrealistic.

From my experience with people who are like this, expecting them to change this behavior is not realistic. The best that you can do is adjust your expectations of how you think they should behave. For the most part, your emotions seem to be more about your issues and past than anything that he is doing. Why force him to change his behavior in order to placate your insecurities?

Knight's Kyra

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(in reply to yellowtail)

RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 11:41:09 AM

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OMG...I hate it when people don't show up or call when they are supposed to be there!!! I would get him a new watch and tell him that he NEEDED to use it! My ex was like that, he was NEVER home when he said he would be..not that I really cared that he wasn't there other than when I had to wait on his dumb ass...but it is still RUDE as HELL!

Better yet, YOU be late sometime when it is really important and brush it off by saying you ran into a friend or something and just couldn't remember to pick up the phone and tell him. bitchy, yes, would work-sure!

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 11:55:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fragilepieces
Just an FYI most men have no concept of time

Well shitfire! How come no one told me this before now? That's it, I'm swearing off men. I'm switching to being a full time lesbian.

Cali

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(in reply to fragilepieces)

RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 12:15:52 PM

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From: Georgia
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Mine is very punctual. I'm chronically and habitually late. I never "mean" to be late, but I always am. I either don't plan well or underestimate how long it'll take me to get there. It's a rare thing for me to be early or on time, and when I am, people remark that they should mark the date on their calendar since it'll be a long time before it occurs again, kinda like an eclipse. *ggls* People don't freak out when I'm late. They expect it. Once, a friend of mine even lied about what time I needed to be somewhere. I thought I was late, but I was right on time! LOL

Mr. Punctuality calls me to find out where I'm at when he arrives at a place I'm to meet him. He's always early. This way, he is able to gauge how long he'll be waiting. For him, I try never to be more than 5 minutes late....meaning I've done a better job of estimating traffic, etc.....or overestimate so that I'm on time.

Maybe the OP could give him 5 minutes and then call to find out where he's at or how long before he's due to arrive....or just get over it since no one ever seems to get pissed at me, except my job. LOL

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RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 12:20:02 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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Yellowtail, I completely missed the whole issue that he'd made this a 'promise'... I think that's because I hear so many people use the word 'promise' in a different way than I do that I've stopped asking the "Did he really mean 'I promise'?" thing, because unequivocally, the individual on the receiving end tells me that it -was- a promise, and the one who reneged tells me that he never "promised" anything...

I don't ask people for promises, because I don't like "leading a person into evil". A promise is a guarantee that something is going to go a certain way, and for me, I don't think that it is honest or feasible to make a -promise- about some future time when one has no control over the future. For me, it feels like -asking- for a promise is asking someone to lie, since xhe doesn't really know what will happen and can't promise on something that doesn't exist.

Personally, I don't make promises either -- I let people know that I'll do my best, but that I won't promise.

Yellowtail, would it make a difference if he changed his wording so that he made it clear that he would try, but that it wasn't a promise? Would you feel more secure knowing that he loves you, and he'll try to do whatever it is he said that he'd do... but if it doesn't happen or plans get fouled up, at least you'll be secure in knowing that he didn't lie. It was so hard to teach my ex not to make promises to the kids, since there was no way he could guaranteed that, say, 3 hours or 3 months later he'd be in a position to do what he promised he would.

I know that, for some people, they want to be able to treat things people say as 'guaranteed'... so taking away the opportunity for the guarantee doesn't work for them, even though it would eliminate the whole issue of unkept promises. For me, though, I think that not falling into that trap of making promises (or extracting impossible promises from someone else) and then failing to keep them helps to alleviate some of that sense of betrayal and underlying dishonesty that can build up in a relationship where one person has a fundamentally more concrete idea of what a 'promise' means than the other's more ethereal or transient perspective. I think your idea of 'promise' is substantially more concrete than your husbands... so eliminating that as a pool of potential issues by not giving or expecting 'promises' seems like it would be a logical first step.

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RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 12:28:16 PM

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WOW --- this whole thread just shocks the hell out of me!

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RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 12:36:04 PM

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Hi, CallaFirestorm----
I've not read this entire thread and I often strongly agree with what you said but I strongly, strongly disagree with some ofhte things you said about promises. While I rarely ask for a promise from someone, I expect it to be kept if it is made. A substantively layed-out commitment, much the same. Word is bond, if we can't trust someone to keep a promise or a commitment, what can we trust?!
And, as for myself, if I promise something, unless I am dead or otherwise unable to even drag myself by my freakin' eye-lids, I'm keeping my word.
There has to be a baseline.
Davan

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RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 12:57:17 PM

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It's incredibly rude to say to his wife that he'll be home by 6:30 and they'll go to the movies, and then he waltzes in two hours late because he ran into someone who is not that important to him and she's been stood up again. It's a subtle way of telling the other person that they aren't important enough to keep their word to. Trust me, if his boss wanted him at a meeting at 1:15 sharp, he wouldn't get carried away talking to an acquaintance at noon and show up at 3:00.

And yes, I've known men who think integrity and keeping their word is only important with other men or at the office. It's demeaning and denigrating to be continually brushed off as not important enough to keep your word with.

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RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 1:53:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: fragilepieces
Just an FYI most men have no concept of time

Well shitfire! How come no one told me this before now? That's it, I'm swearing off men. I'm switching to being a full time lesbian.

Cali

LOL---I would rather deal with the no concept of time than deal with a woman 24/7.

(in reply to CalifChick)

RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 2:13:57 PM

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And this is why I didn't want to get involved in this discussion.

You see My Personal Feelings are based on my experienced as are each other person who comments on this. In most cases you have history that shadows this idea.

So far people have made up little stories as to the extent that this Man has been late. Some make it sound like she was waiting by the door for hours awaiting his arrival, others make it sound like he walked in at 10:02 and she freaked because he was expected at 10:00 o'clock sharp.

The Issue I am having is there is a Power Dynamic in play here, One person has identifed as Dominant the other submissive, in addition to that they are also married..... and THIS is the problem that they are having? I mean Come the Fuck On? Are you kidding me? Two people have commited themselves in Marriage and then again in collar and yet she freaks out when he comes home late?

I say solve your problem. No matter what that takes.

Get a Cell Phone
Get a Pager
Get a Divorce

Whatever it will take to stop what I find to be petty bullshit. The Promise is something that people judge differently, How many parents have told thier children with a tummy ache that they need to try to go to sleep that everything will be better in the morning "I Promise"? I heard it everytime I had a tummy ache, I know many of you have too, I know many of us have said the same words. Do you have any idea how many children die from various diesases or infections that in many cases only show up as an upset tummy? How many Promises failed there.

Since we only have one side of the story I think we are being awfuly harsh on hubby/dom arent we? No? Okay so what if yellow is so persistent on her fear that the only way to leave the house without tears of "You're fucking some other woman aren't you, you're gunna leave me for that trap across the street aren't you!!!!" is to Promise that he will be home at 6:05 SHARP, It becomes Habit, Ritual if you will, In order to leave the house I have to Promise and that will stop the psychotic episodes I get otherwise then you BET CHA I will be Promising that I will be Home at 6:05 and most likely making sure I am home at 5:50 just to be safe. Why? Because the single word Promise said in 2 seconds, will cancel out the 45 minutes of Insecurity that I get every time I try to leave.

If I am USUALLY on time then all Ihave to do is fix the few times that I am not and appologise for it again still worth it in my book.

Integrity, now there is a double edged sword in this situation, On one side you are having to give empty Promises just to keep the insecure happy, and on the Other side you have doing what is necessary to maintain some sembalance of balance. Some may say he is a Douche Bag others may say he is a Saint.

The main issue here is that as yellowtail points out he has never done anything for her to have a rational reason to fear his activities she just expects him always give her a time he will be home before he leaves. That wouldn't happen in my home. When Asked when I will be home.... Dunno, but I'll call you if I'll be later than 10. Andi has been told not to even start worrying until Midnight.

The situation as it has been explained is one of insecurity, not of dishonor or foul play, it is of a wife and sub who wants to control the comings and going of a husband who is at times absent minded.

I think rather than here they need to be seeing a therapist because there is some deep seeded trust issues here that aren't even the husbands fault but he is sure as hell paying for them.

If you didn't find the answer here I would suggest checking in the foundation of your marriage, If it is struggeling over being a little late, how is it going to handle the hardcore stuff?

Steel

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RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 2:17:37 PM

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Someone else who perhaps has a minor trust issue brings out others with larger issues who want to banter and bash another's man just for being a lil sob-ish and lacking a lil responsibility.

I wonder why people are so eagar to make someone else want to rid of a man? I tend not to never want to be that lonley that I want everyone else to be too.

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RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 2:22:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
You see My Personal Feelings are based on my experienced as are each other person who comments on this. In most cases you have history that shadows this idea.

On one side you are having to give empty Promises just to keep the insecure happy

Yes, your history with your wife does seem to color your posts on this more than usual. I'm having a hard time following what you said, but you basically said that you lie to your wife by making empty promises and hope you only have to apologize a few times to make it better?

Why is the OP's husband's integrity NOT the issue? Why is her insecurity the issue?

If you (generic "you") feel you have to give an empty promise for any reason, then perhaps the buck needs to stop there. I don't make empty promises, I don't tell my kids "it will be alright, I promise"... I'm not that kind of parent.

I certainly don't make empty promises to placate anybody. And I would wonder about the trust and honor in someone that would.

Cali

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 2:54:15 PM

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From: St George Utah
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
Yes, your history with your wife does seem to color your posts on this more than usual. I'm having a hard time following what you said, but you basically said that you lie to your wife by making empty promises and hope you only have to apologize a few times to make it better?

Nope, you mistook me, andi doesn't freak out over petty things like when I come home, there was a time she worried about me sleeping with other women, but we dealt with that as it came about and she made an effort to deal with her issues on that subject, but you alreay know that.

However if the situation were how I described, if I were the one who was married to yellowtail and I loved her and she freaked out about what time I would be home everytime I left the house, and because I love her and know that this issue she has is deep seeded and nurotic as hell but I was willing to deal with it to keep the peace and stay with her like I described in my possible OTHER SIDE of the story version, then yes I would give the empty promise. I would do it because not doing it would cause more friction in the marriage then learning how to live with the issue is. I am sure there are a Million and One ways of dealing with the situation that are going to take time but I am not going to live walking on egg shells for years because she has an issue with what time I will be home. Which is how I think this is working because it is usually the other part that requests the promise, I never fell the need to say I Promise unless someone asks me "Do you Promise?" and if saying NO causes a Hell Storm then you Bet I am gunna say Yes, Cause the issue isn't worth a Divorce but it also isn't worth the Fight that could come from saying not saying Yes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
Why is the OP's husband's integrity NOT the issue? Why is her insecurity the issue?

Because we have yet to hear from the OP's Husband you only have one side of the story but you are ready to have the Man Branded for a crime you may not know the back story on.

We do know from what she has said that he has never given her a reason to fear that he is doing something wrong and that she doesn't really know why she has such an issue with it.

With the Information given I would rather point out where she could do some internal work on her own to make this problem less of an issue rather than give her ammunition to attack a Husband who we don't really know exactly how offten this happens or what his reasons for it happeneing are.

I say witch hunts are bad, as a bunch of uninformed people have a history of shooting first and asking question later.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
If you (generic "you") feel you have to give an empty promise for any reason, then perhaps the buck needs to stop there. I don't make empty promises, I don't tell my kids "it will be alright, I promise"... I'm not that kind of parent.

I don't feel this way, I actually have issues lying to andi about even the stupidist things, like when money is tight and I am too lazy to make lunch that morning so I go to McDonalds and when she asks what I had for lunch, once I said nothing because I didn't want her worrying about cash, I called her not more than a minut after I got off the phone to confess cause I felt like a jack ass. When it comes to lines of communication sure andi and I have our own issues but we work through them until they are gone. They get addressed and discussed not just forgiven and forgotten. But that is OUR process and not everyone is like that.

Where as I am sure you don't make empty promises I am also sure you cannot say you have never had to break a promise to someone. I don't know many people who can actually say they have never broken a promise to someone for some reason. The Point is not every broken promise is a reflection on Integrity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
I certainly don't make empty promises to placate anybody. And I would wonder about the trust and honor in someone that would.

I understand this and you have made it known how you feel on this subject, but you don't have to make empty promises to placate someone. Just not being honest when someone askes you if you are upset about something is placating. Being nice to people you don't like is placating them. Trying to avoid an unnessary blow up by telling someone what they want to hear is playcating too. I however do not believe that placating is always a bad thing, there are times it is just the easiest way to get from one situation to the next.

Steel

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(in reply to CalifChick)

RE: disappointed.... - 11/14/2008 3:13:38 PM

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From what I understood, he asked her to wait for him at a certain time and showed up 2 hours later and this has happened quite a few times in the past, I certainly would have an issue with it. Now I'm usually always a bit late but I try to be within an acceptable time frame (10 minutes, sometimes I might even be there earlier because I never carry a watch, hate watches) but 2 hours is, excuse my French, taking the piss! It's inconsiderate and impolite and nobody should have to deal with that, as I said before, not a D/s issue, it's simple manners and how you interact in a relationship.

It possibly wouldn't be a trust issue for me, but it would make me angry and simply not appreciated, which is NOT the best way to feel in any relationship.

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