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RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 6:44:33 AM

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Heather - I can't take credit for that word. I saw it in another thread. But I like it. It sort of sums it up for me.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to justheather)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 7:08:41 AM

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quote:

Regarding your sexuality, that can change as well and it doesn't have to mean that I am advocating poly or bi-sexuality. I would have never thought I was a masochist and I was not interested in a sadist. But because I did not allow that to be an excluding factor with my Lord, I had the opportunity to discover that I am an intense masochist and I absolutely love pain. This is a huge shift in my self-image and has nothing to do with poly or sexual orientation. Now, if it had turned out that I was not a masochist, then the play between my Lord and me would have been vastly different.

Knight's kyra

Well, i cannot respond to something as amorphous as "your other posts left this-and-such impression" kyra, so let me set that aside. However, i would like to say it's not always easy to write from a POV not your own; we all tend to write from our own POV's. i never assume anyone who writes thusly is disrepecting anyone else, and i doubt that's ever the case with any member.

By it's nature, a relationship with a Dom or Master who desired a bisexual woman would not be monogamous...thus, i could not find peace, never mind flourish, in such a setting. Then there's the expectation that i'd be sexual with a woman. This i cannot do, will never be able to do; this is not an aspect of my sexuality that is "in flux". So to accept a collar from such a Man would ensure He could not please me, and i could not please Him. i try to avoid self-defeating behavior.

Does not appeal, as you can imagine. Accepting and learning to love cats is not the same as agreeing to a sexual relationship with a woman. Not the same as giving up on monogamy.

i think straight women get disrespected here sometimes, as some people think they are bisexual and just haven't figured it out yet. If i said lesbians were straight women who just hadn't figured it out yet, people would be angry. i don't expect anyone to be angry -- a destructive emotion anyway -- but i point out the contrast so you can see where i would feel disrespected at times.

Anyway, returning to the Op post; my point was the high percent of Doms and Masters seeking bisexual women is somewhat discouraging...but as KoM has said; it's a case of a smaller pool of candidates...and having a larger pool doesn't ensure happiness.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 12/23/2005 7:16:00 AM >

(in reply to kyraofMists)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 7:12:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
By it's nature, a relationship with a Dom or Master who desired a bisexual woman would not be monogamous

That's where you're wrong, and that's exactly the same discussion that was in the link I posted at the beginning of this thread. We've tried to explain to you a dozen different ways how bisexuality does not exclude monogamy.

(in reply to candystripper)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 7:32:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
By it's nature, a relationship with a Dom or Master who desired a bisexual woman would not be monogamous

That's where you're wrong, and that's exactly the same discussion that was in the link I posted at the beginning of this thread. We've tried to explain to you a dozen different ways how bisexuality does not exclude monogamy.

I'm bisexual but am fairly monogamous leaning (my preference is monogamy but I'm flexible - which is why I'm passively [and unsuccessfully] looking for/open to playing with female tops). I've been monogamous to my owner for quite a while (for about six years) and completely fine with continuing it that way. Just because I like being with women and am attracted to some women doesn't mean I want to be with them when I'm already in a relationship. Just like straight women don't want to be with other men just because they are attracted to men.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 7:35:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Well, chalk it up to my BDSM learning curve. In my whole life i've never met (in real life, nor online) any woman who found sex between two men exciting. Which is why i added "as a rule"; because i knew there must be exceptions...just had not met them yet.

Hope this suits for an explanation.

candystripper

I just wanted to chime in that I like watching two men together. I read gay male pornography and on the very very very rare occasions that I've seen two men playing ... well I like to watch it (much to the chagrin of my owner who is grossed out by it).

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to candystripper)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 9:42:58 AM

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Let me be the first to say it: MEOW!!!!!!!!!

I have a serious question though. I consider myself bisexual and poly-friendly, but Im involved in a monogamous relationship. Maybe it's just me, but in my whacked out little head, I dont see our relationship as being NON monogamous if we encounter another female on a physical level together. If it's something we explore together and there is not a sense of incorporating this other woman into our relationship as a partner, I still see us as having a monogamous relationship. Is that just too convenient of me or does anyone else see it the same way?
I see 'poly' as opening up the relationship to include other people, not just the sex or even the D/s for that matter. Maybe Im delusional.
Labels can be convenient, but I think they might end up being more limiting than they are worth in the end.

It does, candy, seem as though you have placed some very specific parameters on what you expect your One to look and feel and smell and taste like when he shows up. It may be possible that you are hard-limiting him out of existence before he even arrives.
Speaking as one whose One showed up in a slightly different package than she had expected, I mean these words only with the best intentions. You might want to consider taking a deep breath and letting the Universe take care of the specifics.
And you are certainly free to ignore that advice.
Peace.

< Message edited by justheather -- 12/23/2005 10:16:43 AM >

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 11:42:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

This i cannot do, will never be able to do; and i could not please Him. i try to avoid self-defeating behavior.

I can only verbalize this because it is something Im learning from Mine:
Maybe trying to avoid "can't" might be a better idea. Let His business be to worry about what pleases Him and make it your business to find a way to do it.

You might be surprised at what you are able to joyfully transcend, together. But you arent giving him a chance to exist much less teach you how to transcend.
Again, meant in the best possible of spirits. Peace.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to candystripper)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 11:58:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Well, chalk it up to my BDSM learning curve. In my whole life i've never met (in real life, nor online) any woman who found sex between two men exciting. Which is why i added "as a rule"; because i knew there must be exceptions...just had not met them yet.

Lots and lots of exceptions.

Sherria here on cm affectionately refers to herself as a 'fag hag.' I've never gotten any sense that she is anything other than non_judgemental about anybody's sexual preference (of course I only co-habited with her for four years, so I may not know her well enough to say), but it's a common enough term and she uses it in an endearing way.

If it's common enough to have a widely known and used derogative created to describe or label it then I'd say it's pretty common.

Perhaps it got by you because you are averse.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to candystripper)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 12:20:47 PM

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quote:

That might be better recieved than NO F***ing WAY! ;O)

B1gBear

i think (blushing) it is better spoken in my profile, but if You have time please take a look and see if it is too vague..TY dear.

candystripper

(in reply to B1gbear)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 12:29:42 PM

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quote:

I'm bisexual but am fairly monogamous leaning (my preference is monogamy but I'm flexible - which is why I'm passively [and unsuccessfully] looking for/open to playing with female tops). I've been monogamous to my owner for quite a while (for about six years) and completely fine with continuing it that way. Just because I like being with women and am attracted to some women doesn't mean I want to be with them when I'm already in a relationship. Just like straight women don't want to be with other men just because they are attracted to men.

Wildfleurs

i have never met a bisexual person in real life (as far as i know) so i don't really know what to compare it to. Yes, monogamy between straight people means "forsaking all others" but at least it holds the promise that they can fire off one anothers' rockets.

In a marriage between a straight woman (who doesn't know) and a gay man, the sex is generally absent altogether or extremely perfunctory; gay men are known as gay because they do not desire women sexually.

i don't know what it's like for bisexual people; whether if they attempt monogamy they are left longing for a fulfilling relationship with the sex not chosen, or what. And does it vary from person to person, or over a lifetime.

Monogamy is not negotiable with me, but i do not want a Man to feel He's been chained to the relationship; i want a Man who places as much emphasis on monogamy as i do. Not One who compromises what He really wanted to have me, but One who shares my vision of how wonderful life can be.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 12/23/2005 12:33:11 PM >

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 1:59:31 PM

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Bi-sexuality to me is an obscure term as it denotes far too obscure a concept. Sexual preference is just that, a preference. I may prefer redheads over brunettes or blondes but does it mean I would not be with a blonde if I were to meet one, fall madly head over heels, and find that they were a perfect match? Absolutely not. To some, they prefer a far more unified life, they stick only within their preferences, never waivering, never experimenting, never even acknowledging that there is a grander world if they just open up their eyes. I think the term bi-sexual is just an easy way to spawn off an indecision and really tries to force a seperation that really need not be there.

So to me it's really a matter of hetero, homo, or pan. All this curious, willing, fantasy stuff really blurs the lines. If someone prefers men but would have an interest in being with a woman, that doesn't make them any more bisexual or bicurious than a man who gets setup on a blind date with a ravenhair who normally only dates blondes.

Again, people are far too concerned about placing statuses on things rather than just living the actual experience itself.

Also, to the point at hand about a Master desiring of this, again if you are doing something to please your Master it is not necessary that you enjoy the act itself for the act, but instead enjoy the act because it is pleasing of your Master. It does not make you a lesbian or gay, it makes you a vessel through which their desire in brought to life, no more so then being chained and barking actual makes you into a German Shepherd. People really just put far too many connotations into sexual or behavioral acts sometimes.

As a submissive or slave, you are placing yourself into a position of servitude and the moment you start second guessing and defying or disrespecting the will, you are losing the very reason that you took on that role in the first place. Likewise a Master who knowingly insists of consistantly forcing his subjects into things that they are vehemently opposed to is either a sadist (which to some is exactly what they desire) or simply a selfish and unthoughtful man and is not worthy of the title of Master.

It's about mutual respect people. I just don't see how topics like this can really be all that confusing to people.

_____________________________

Three are the Beasts wherewith thou must plough the Field; the Unicorn, the Horse, and the Ox. And these shalt thou yoke in a triple yoke that is governed by One Whip.
- Crowley ~ OTO Liber III

(in reply to candystripper)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 3:10:23 PM

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quote:

I have a serious question though. I consider myself bisexual and poly-friendly, but Im involved in a monogamous relationship. Maybe it's just me, but in my whacked out little head, I dont see our relationship as being NON monogamous if we encounter another female on a physical level together.

justheather

We cannot agree on terminology. To me, this is not monogamy. And there remains the problem of the Dom or Master who desires a bisexual woman but "settled" for a straight one. i don't know who you aimed the "MEOWW" remark at, so i'm glancing over that.

As for limiting a Man to such a degree He cannot exist, well, plenty of Men have told me they want the same kind of monogamous relationship that i do; others have stated they wanted something different. However, monogamy is not the barrier to finding my One; it's other, intangible qualities.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 12/23/2005 3:30:16 PM >

(in reply to justheather)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 3:14:47 PM

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quote:

i can only verbalize this because it is something Im learning from Mine:
Maybe trying to avoid "can't" might be a better idea. Let His business be to worry about what pleases Him and make it your business to find a way to do it.

You might be surprised at what you are able to joyfully transcend, together. But you arent giving him a chance to exist much less teach you how to transcend.
Again, meant in the best possible of spirits. Peace.

justheather

Sweetie, i appreciate the good wishes, and i'm pleased you're growing and having fun. Just return a bit of respect and accept that no, i will not change, i will not have any bi-sexual encounters with women. Ever. That's what "straight" means and it's not something to be ashamed of.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 12/23/2005 3:15:30 PM >

(in reply to justheather)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 3:19:46 PM

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quote:

Lots and lots of exceptions.

Sherria here on cm affectionately refers to herself as a 'fag hag.' I've never gotten any sense that she is anything other than non_judgemental about anybody's sexual preference (of course I only co-habited with her for four years, so I may not know her well enough to say), but it's a common enough term and she uses it in an endearing way.

If it's common enough to have a widely known and used derogative created to describe or label it then I'd say it's pretty common.

Perhaps it got by you because you are averse.

MizSuz

My gay friends never accepted "fag hag" and so i don't use it. i wasn't lieing about not knowing any women who enjoyed gay men together but i appreciate (and anticipated) that some women i did not know would.

i'm not sure of your point...that i should know ever ethnic or sexual slur going? Frankly i've forgotten some. And don't feel bad about that.

candystripper

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 3:24:08 PM

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quote:

Also, to the point at hand about a Master desiring of this, again if you are doing something to please your Master it is not necessary that you enjoy the act itself for the act, but instead enjoy the act because it is pleasing of your Master. It does not make you a lesbian or gay, it makes you a vessel through which their desire in brought to life, no more so then being chained and barking actual makes you into a German Shepherd. People really just put far too many connotations into sexual or behavioral acts sometimes.

afmvdp

But afmvdp, i cannot offer this. First, i want/need/desire a relationship which belongs only to the two of U/us. Then, i cannot engage sexually with a woman to please a Man..any Man..ever. That's just not in my repetorie, nor would it be. Which is why i avoid Men who desire bisexual women.

candystripper

(in reply to afmvdp)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 3:29:03 PM

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candy, candy, candy ... it's not so tough girlfriend.

You get a little drunk ... you get some of that cool strawberry tasting oil, and voila!!!

(in reply to candystripper)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 3:32:58 PM

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quote:

candy, candy, candy ... it's not so tough girlfriend.

You get a little drunk ... you get some of that cool strawberry tasting oil, and voila!!!

caitlyn

You lovely girl; no; for me it's just no on. That is my definition of "straight". What mystifies me is why being straight is such a controversial stance...are we to run to closets now?

candystripper

(in reply to caitlyn)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 3:42:54 PM

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quote:

gay men are known as gay because they do not desire women sexually.

Hello Pinkie.

Gay men or at least the friends I have and the people I know, are known as gay because that is their orientation. Having been involved with male gay couples, I can safely say that they enjoy sexual relations full stop. Being with a woman does not make them bi... same as a woman being with another woman does not make her either a lesbian or bi... it just makes her experimental or obeying...

Orientation has nothing to do with who you have sex with - there are many hetrosexual and homosexual people who completely abstain from sexual intercourse but are still hetrosexual or homosexual.

You are still a submissive, even without a Master... orientation is what we are - not what we do.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to candystripper)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 4:22:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

quote:

candy, candy, candy ... it's not so tough girlfriend.

You get a little drunk ... you get some of that cool strawberry tasting oil, and voila!!!

caitlyn

You lovely girl; no; for me it's just no on. That is my definition of "straight". What mystifies me is why being straight is such a controversial stance...are we to run to closets now?

candystripper

I've followed this thread and I think it can be summed up by saying that although bisexuality is 'extremely popular by both Doms/Dommes, and female subs and slaves alike.....it is not for everyone. And not everyone can be converted. I don't know candystrippers reasons, but we all have our reasons for what we are and are not open to. To try and convince someone its cool when you only have this online forum is not fair. Who knows if she would find she liked it under the guiding hand of a future Master, but for now we should all just let it lay and accept that she ain't going there. I am right there with most of you in being all for it, but I know that every slave I've ever had did have certain issues that just made pushing them to a certain activity a no no and bad for them emotionally and psychologically. I for one plan to leave this discussion for candystripper and her future Master to deal with. If there is ever a topic that EVERYONE is extremely opinionated on and eager to share and encourage others to share our opinion on....this is it. :O)

We should probably agree to disagree.

Monogomy by definition btw means.....inclusive of only those two actively involved in the relationship. Now I can see poly families being monogomous within their family too, but by definition....if you play with others beyond the two that started the relationship....your poly, not monogomous.

Just my 2 cents worth.

(in reply to candystripper)

RE: Straight Woman Blues - 12/23/2005 4:40:44 PM

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I don't think anyone was suggesting that candy, candy, candy become bi, bi, bisexual. I'm not even sure you can "become" bisexual.

All I was saying, is that if it's a roadblock ... which can be assumed, since we are now on page five of this thread ... there are ways to make it a little easier.

One thing I will differ on, is that this is some sort of heavy emotional or psychological issue. Well, it might be ... but it's a really small one. I'm sure candy knows about much bigger ones, as we have discussed them before on this board.

If it washes off in the shower, it's nothing to get too fucking upset over.

(in reply to B1gbear)

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