RE: slavery

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: slavery

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> RE: slavery

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: slavery - 12/5/2008 10:34:37 PM

Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

Greetings..

I'm not really sure where or what your going with the questions you asked tsatske other than yes initially in the here and now I saught to be owned by this Master, however, it was his decision to accept ownership of me..not my choosing him in any manner other than begging to be owned by him.

I do not utilize the current legal affordables available to me now unless Master makes the decision to allow that. If he says no..then it is no. His actions upon me if he chose to do or not to do belong to him, and he is just as capable of treating me ill, trading me off, killing me or any other unthinkables that anyone can think of..laws standing against them or not. Again he dictates his own actions and the consequences are his alone to bare..good, bad, indifferent.

Now if your asking if slavery became legal and back to just anyone being snatched up off the streets with no fore shot of atleast starting out under this new law with a owner that would value the health and life of his property so that it continues to work for him at optimum? Then my answer might be alittle more hesitant but probably would still end up being a yes.

Hope that answers

starshine

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to tsatske)

RE: slavery - 12/5/2008 10:52:42 PM

Surrenderwithin

Posts: 368
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline

I have been with Master for nine years this month......and I do not feel that I need to "sign myself over" as my heart and devotion has already sealed my fate. However, hypothetically speaking... if there were an option to make it legal... Yes, in a heartbeat I would....and I yearn for a way to make it so.
Maggi

(in reply to tsatske)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 7:41:20 AM

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

I know this is a hot fantasy for many but considering that slaves rebel, it is clear that legal ownership is far less controlling and "owned" than many submissives and even bottoms and bedroom subs feel for their "owner".

To me it would be meaningless and as Leadership said, I would fight against it because it is morally wrong. Let's not forget, we lost more Americans in one civil war battle, 50,000 men, than we lost in Vietnam over this crap.

I value the look of devotion in her eyes far more than any words on any piece of paper, for in the end, what else is there?

(in reply to Surrenderwithin)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 7:47:10 AM

Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline

Best answer yet Michael.

. I have to wonder what people think when they try and rationalize or even envision government sanctioned and sponsored slavery..again. Perhaps some history lessons are in order to show the ugly of this little fantasy?

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 8:23:04 AM

Posts: 5732
Status: offline

quote:

If the government brought back real and legal slavery

The question is absurd.

If by "real and legal" you mean "non-consensual"--then the question is moot. The putative "master" would simply take the woman/women he desired and that would be that; the putative "slave" and her desires are by definition of no consequence.

If by "real and legal" you mean a person can choose to be a slave, but after that choice is made the capacity to choose is forever forsaken--such a construct is a legal impossibility. The nature of contract law necessitates an ongoing power of choice on both parties, and the concept you propose would necessarily be of a contractual nature.

For myself, as others have already stated, I rather enjoy the "extralegal" aspect of owning my slave. She kneels by choice, and stays by choice, and could at any time leave by choice--yet she stays. Who needs a law when you have that?

_____________________________

(in reply to lynn1947)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 10:59:42 AM

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

In the construct she provided, she said - 'would you sign yourself over into slavery to a Master you had chosen?'
I am not saying that anyone who said no 'should' have said yes - the answer given by each person is fine. I am just curious about all this 'non-consent' talk. Where is the non-consent in this fictional scenario?

Nonconsent comes in the fact that once you said yes, you lose the option of saying no. So if he started ignoring me, belittling me etc then I would be stuck with someone who had changed in his feelings towards me.

There's a lot of harm that can be done even without lending me to others, bringing others in to rule over me, etc. Contracts control actions, not feelings. And for me the emotional connection is why I am here. If he stopped loving me, caring for me, and showing this then I wouldn't want to be with him, and I certainly wouldn't want to be forced to keep having sex with a man I no longer desired because of the fact that he stopped loving me.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to tsatske)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 1:52:13 PM

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lynn1947

please let me know how long you have been in the lifestyle.

Honestly, i have never been in "the lifestyle", however, i have been submissive my whole life. That's 52 years. And, i have been enjoying B&D/S&M, within my intimate relationships, since i was 21. So, that's 31 years.

quote:

If the government brought back real and legal slavery, would you sign yourself over to your Owner as his/her slave?

The government abolished the institution of slavery, the trafficking of humans and the enslavement of persons against their will.

There is no contract between my Master and i but, i did "sign myself over" to Him as His slave 3 years ago. We have a relationship established on a verbal agreement. Our relationship is real and there isn't anything illegal about it. He and i agreed to the terms, which included my relinquishing to Him my right to refuse Him anything that He wants and my right to do whatever i want, without His approval and permission.

The government has no jurisdiction over how i define my personal relationship with another. We don't have a document filed at the courthouse listing me as His property but, i am His slave. Some people never get the legal document of marriage but they consider themselves to be married to each other. They don't have the legal status of being married but, they live their lives as such. We don't have the legal status of being Master and slave but, we live our lives as such.

i am a slave, of my own free will, to a Master of my choosing. It's not forced on me and my slavery isn't enforced by any legal body. i walked into this relationship on my own power and if i were to ever decide to leave it, i could do so. Some might say that i am not really a slave, then. And, by their definition, that might be true. But, since i don't define myself or my life by anyone else's definitions, it really doesn't mean much to me or to my Master. There have always been many forms of slavery and many different types of slaves. Within my Master's house, He defines what a slave is for Him. And, i am the lucky one who is able to be a slave for Him.

joy
Master David's erotic-domestic slave

_____________________________

Don't ask yourself what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. ~Dr. Howard Thurman

(in reply to lynn1947)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 1:58:59 PM

Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline

No.

I like having choice. I like having control.

I have been in situations where I did not have any control, choice, say (etc) and do not want to be in a similar position again.

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 2:03:36 PM

Posts: 1030
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline

If girl was in a situation that allowed girl to be owned by a mistress in the capacity of a slave, girl would do so. But since girl has always been treated as a submissive, when younger, a sexual submissive, and currently a non-sexual service submissive. To become absolutely free of self-will and live by the will of a mistress, girl would think quite possible.

(in reply to lynn1947)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 2:24:46 PM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lynn1947

If the government brought back real and legal slavery, would you sign yourself over to your Owner as his/her slave?

Probably not. Bringing back the slave system that was already in place would mean my children would become slaves by virtue of having been in my womb - I can not consent for them therefore I will never consent to anything that forces my children into slavery by virtue of my choice.

quote:

you would think this question could be answered with an yes or a no in a heart beat.

I wouldn't. But I grew up in an area where you couldn't study local history without studying slavery.

quote:

and maybe for some in there relationship they would jump on board before the ink dried on the contract. but we are not talking marriage here where you can find a divorce lawyer on every street corner.or you wouldn't be able to say i am leaving because we are no longer compatible. this would be a real, legal and a law if you signed you would lose all your freedoms and rights. and you would only have the freedoms and rights your Master would afford you. our constitution.for the signer they would lose all there rights. at this time i don't believe i know myself or my Master well enough to answer this question today. i am a very strange willed women who has given my Master a gift. my slavery to Him i don't think W/we need a sign piece of paper for that.

I'm sure there would be many who would jump at it. And I'm sure that some of those would live happily. And others would, after some point, regret it with every moment that passed.

If the government allowed for a different kind of slavery, or some other system, which allowed me to be owned but protected the rights of my children and there a "Slave ASPCA" in place, I would more seriously consider it. However, it would have to be system where I didn't lose all rights - I lost the rights I agreed to lose in my contract.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/6/2008 2:25:05 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to lynn1947)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 3:03:32 PM

Posts: 41
Joined: 12/5/2008
Status: offline

Consensual means consent was given, the person was not knocked in the head and carried to a home and chained up. However, the first episode of 'COPS' where they pulled someone over for speeding and found out they were a runaway slave... That would be amusing.

I would probably buy the DVD.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 3:56:26 PM

Posts: 1030
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline

AquaticSub
I'm sure there would be many who would jump at it. And I'm sure that some of those would live happily. And others would, after some point, regret it with every moment that passed.

If the government allowed for a different kind of slavery, or some other system, which allowed me to be owned but protected the rights of my children and there a "Slave ASPCA" in place, I would more seriously consider it. However, it would have to be system where I didn't lose all rights - I lost the rights I agreed to lose in my contract.

Reply:
Girl would have to agree with AS in regards to the suggestion made. If such was active back in the day of slaves in the americas, there might still be a slave registry and people might still own slaves.
Actually girl believes there is a master registered here in CM that specializes in transfer and contract when a sub/slave is transferred from one dominant to another. Certainly the subject of 'Terms of Agreement' or 'Contract' did come up, even to help with negotiations.
Why was it abolished in the first place? Inhumanity towards other human beings, deplorable treatment and generally abusive in all aspects that would be considered criminal. (geisha trivia)The purchasing of young girls to become slaves in japan from fathers that had little use of females, ended in 1959. Now its by choice. (geiko (sp)).
How many of the submissives on here that have being a slave as just fantasy? How dominants have it as their fantasy to own a slave?
Even to become a slave, to live by the guidance and will of another human being as their master/ mistress takes a lot of determination on the part of both individuals involved.
There is of course the responsibility towards the health of the slave. If the slave becomes ill or unable to carry out their duties to the best of their ability, will they simply be discarded?

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 3:57:17 PM

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline

In a heart beat I'd sign over everything.

I read this and I didn't even have to think about the answer. I just know it would be yes.

Just had to add....this is a really nifty question!

< Message edited by Opalescence -- 12/6/2008 4:02:27 PM >

(in reply to lynn1947)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 4:16:15 PM

Posts: 41
Joined: 12/5/2008
Status: offline

My earnest fear would be knowing how many subbies would leap at the opportunity to sign themselves over after meeting 'their one true Master' online. Sub frenzy is a dangerous thing, and it could lead to some lifelong mistakes. Granted, the Darwin Awards would have a whole new smorgasbord of material, but I would not wish that mistake on anyone.

(in reply to Opalescence)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 4:32:21 PM

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

I am still shuddering about this fantasy of slavery. When we love someone, it is so easy to give the all of us, don't matter what lifestyle it is. When love burns out be it through the Master dying or wanting to get rid of you, then what do you do?
Fantasies are nice, but this is sick. I still sick that my country was a part of slavery. In the 60's, I was there marching for African American's rights. Though not of civil rights, my best friend in high school parents were bothi n the Nazi concentration camps. There were no rights there either. No rights means just that, take what is given to you, without any choice.
To give another all our love is a wonderful thing. Unconditional love is hard enough to do, without adding the fantasy of slavery. Remember slavery was not a fantasy at one time. It was a real and breathing thing.
oceanwynds

(in reply to Opalescence)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 4:44:51 PM

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

I think people are mostly responding from a place of emotion and not one from logic in this thread.

Given the scenario suggested was a form of legal slavery that one can sign up for, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that, outside of the arguments that nobody can consent to non consent or other jibberish like one has to be able to escape from a contract for that contract to be consentual.

I wonder how the debt collectors for my hospital bills would take to that argument...

In a sense, such a legal arrangement would be no different then the old institution of marriage before divorce began available. There was a period of time when people took the "death do us part" section of the marriage speech literally instead of merely giving lip service to it.

If such a legal contract was available, would I or any slave of mine make use of it? Nope, no more than I have intentions of getting married since I think the percentage of people who find a partner who can grow in the same direction as them the rest of their lives are incredibly lucky. As such, I have no intentions of entering into a legal contract with someone, because I don't think human beings are meant to necessarily spend the rest of their lives with one person. It's a great goal, but the internal commitment in a relationship is all I need or want.

If such a legal contract was available, would I deem it wrong and unethical for other people to sign up for it and enter into it of their own free will? Nope, I won't.

Do I think such a thing is realistic and workable? Well, given the number of people who enter into legal contracts with credit card companies and manage to destroy their financial health, I don't think I will be casting my vote for it.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to lynn1947)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 5:15:56 PM

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

In a sense, such a legal arrangement would be no different then the old institution of marriage before divorce began available. There was a period of time when people took the "death do us part" section of the marriage speech literally instead of merely giving lip service to it.

There was also a time when women had no rights in regard to their children and properity. Divorce was not an option for women either. Took a long time before we won the right to vote. This would hold with slavery as well.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 5:44:31 PM

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwynds

quote:

In a sense, such a legal arrangement would be no different then the old institution of marriage before divorce began available. There was a period of time when people took the "death do us part" section of the marriage speech literally instead of merely giving lip service to it.

There was also a time when women had no rights in regard to their children and properity. Divorce was not an option for women either. Took a long time before we won the right to vote. This would hold with slavery as well.

I saw no mention of instituting government sanctioned slavery of a gender. I saw the suggestion of a government sanctioned legal contract where one can sign up to become someone's legally recognized property.

Please don't project something into what I am writing that is not there.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to oceanwynds)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 5:50:13 PM

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwynds

quote:

In a sense, such a legal arrangement would be no different then the old institution of marriage before divorce began available. There was a period of time when people took the "death do us part" section of the marriage speech literally instead of merely giving lip service to it.

Please excuse my error.

oceanwynds

There was also a time when women had no rights in regard to their children and properity. Divorce was not an option for women either. Took a long time before we won the right to vote. This would hold with slavery as well.

I saw no mention of instituting government sanctioned slavery of a gender. I saw the suggestion of a government sanctioned legal contract where one can sign up to become someone's legally recognized property.

Please don't project something into what I am writing that is not there.

Please excuse my error.
oceanwynds

< Message edited by oceanwynds -- 12/6/2008 5:51:01 PM >

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: slavery - 12/6/2008 5:52:57 PM

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwynds

quote:

In a sense, such a legal arrangement would be no different then the old institution of marriage before divorce began available. There was a period of time when people took the "death do us part" section of the marriage speech literally instead of merely giving lip service to it.

There was also a time when women had no rights in regard to their children and property. Divorce was not an option for women either. Took a long time before we won the right to vote. This would hold with slavery as well.

I saw no mention of instituting government sanctioned slavery of a gender. I saw the suggestion of a government sanctioned legal contract where one can sign up to become someone's legally recognized property.

Please don't project something into what I am writing that is not there.

perhaps it would have been a better idea to suggest the words "indentured servitude", to describe the "sign yourself over to your Owner", for those wanting to run with the historically accurate version of the words/terms, instead of the controversial word "slavery".
it could include the romantic component, or not, just like today's traditional "marriage", but let's put in that clause that doesn't deny the gender or sexual orientation of the potential "indentured servant" and their Master/Mistress, so everyone can participate!!!

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> RE: slavery

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.078