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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 8:43:37 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

"S" types who can take high intensity pain are often revered...to the point that many who can't take such a high degree of pain are sometimes made to feel inferior.


Having been on the recieving end of this reverence i can say it baffles the hell out of me. Submissives \ slaves do tend to look up to those who may have a higher pain threshold themselves and yes on occasion it becomes a jealousy / competitive thing. Some Dom's also hold high pain threshold subs in higher status than lower ones. I have experience of all of these.
 
Why does this happen? I can think of a few reasons but there are probably many. Maybe the Dom's who hold them higher are truly looking for someone with a higher pain threshold, so yes they are of more value to them than a lower pain threshold sub. But thats just like saying a Dom wants someone into rubber so a sub into rubber is of more value to them than someone who is not. Maybe on the other hand they just want to show off, 'look how much my sub can take' kind of attitude. But thats just the same as those posing Dom's you see who wanfer round a club with a tool belt on screaming 'look at me'.
 
The sub themselves, well its not their fault they have a high pain threshold and i'm pretty sure most don't want to be revered for it. Then of course there are those who do, maybe take the pain just to look good, better than others. Again though it's no different to anything else we do that people admire that is natural for us. No different to things we do to get admiration, envy.
 
Truthfully i have good and bad experiences mainly through heavy play in clubs. I find in general in my personal experience that Dom's revere me and sub's get jealous and bitchy. Neither reaction i understand or want. I am what i am, i play what  most who see me play or have played with me class as hard. I rarely play in clubs now as i don't need the complaints or the bitchiness aimed at me for me just being me.
 
Honestly i get sick of being berated for being what others class as me being a heavy player and i see as normal. Rant over
 
Edited to add............rant not over. We are all revered by our partners and others for something, why is it always brought up as a bad thing to be revered for being a high pain threshold slave. I personally am proud sometimes of the beatings i take and i do celebrate them. No different from those who are revered and celebrated for something they do well.
Rant now over.




< Message edited by missturbation -- 12/19/2008 8:50:10 AM >

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 9:01:01 AM   
OneMoreWaste


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline 		I don't know about being revered or looked up to, but I will say this:

I get great personal satisfaction by having marks that linger after a scene. It's an important part of the S/m experience *to me*. So, when I can take a beating that leaves heavy marks, I feel some pride in it. Consequently, I'm sometimes jealous of those who are better able to take a beating (or at least bruise more easily), because that is an experience that I want, and am sometimes "too weak" to get.

Aside from that, I have a high pain threshold, but low tolerance, with some weird if/thens thrown in. Which overall kinda sucks, although it's very useful for ignoring minor injuries while I'm working on stuff.


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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 9:05:24 AM   
kaiaTimoty


Posts: 1
Joined: 11/10/2008
Status: offline 		Tis interesting...the community i live in there is no notice of such that is mentioned...no pain tolerance revered.
Another noticeable here is this one sees alot of  "I" ..."me"...."I"..."me"....seemingly about the submissive....when here it is Him...He....Master...tis about one's Master.

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 9:07:46 AM   
sadomasokisti


Posts: 221
Joined: 10/20/2005
From: Iceland
Status: offline 		I have not so much noticed this.

My masochism and sadism is subjective and relative to the situation.

It's not just about how much pain I can endure. If it was just a question about pain for me, I would simply do the hurting all by my self.  For me it's about connection between sadist an masochist.  I like to suffer for the right person.  For the special one, my usual limits fly away and it becomes a question of simply avoiding permanent damage - or maybe even not (have some battle scars).

When topping in S&M play, I don't care if the sub has little or much pain tolerance.  If I can get the sub to his or her limits and then to agree to suffer a little bit more for me I get my fix.
One of the biggest kick I have gotten as a top in a S&M play was when I was playing with some nasty nipple clamps on a friend.  The clamps were adjusted by few levels (clicks) and I had them already in the last position.  She is not much into NT, actually she hates nipple clamps.  I was talking to her, pulling gently, twisting and playing with her mind.  Then I asked her to  allow me to tighten the nipple clamps one more click for me.  Actually when she reluctantly agreed I told her to beg for it, which she did.  That's when I got my big kick.  I gave her a big reward, told her how glad I was and all.  She was willing to go that extra length in suffering for me me me me.

< Message edited by sadomasokisti -- 12/19/2008 9:09:19 AM >

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 9:10:52 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
I personally am proud sometimes of the beatings i take and i do celebrate them.


I think that it is a good and fine thing to feel that way on a personal level. I believe that it becomes a problem though when we view it in a light that it makes us "better than" or "more valuable" than the next person. I love that I can take pain at the level that he enjoys giving me. But the reality is that he is a sadist and it is my suffering that fuels his fire. If my pain tolerance was lower and all I could take was a light spanking it wouldn't mean that my suffering wasn't just as real. It doesn't always take great physical effort to cause suffering. As an example, I can stand stoic for a beating with a bat...but I will cry, beg, scream and write bad checks if he tickles me. And sometimes that is the exact reaction he is looking for.

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 9:14:02 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sadomasokisti
When topping in S&M play, I don't care if the sub has little or much pain tolerance.  If I can get the sub to his or her limits and then to agree to suffer a little bit more for me I get my fix.




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Peace and light,
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When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 9:39:23 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

I think that it is a good and fine thing to feel that way on a personal level. I believe that it becomes a problem though when we view it in a light that it makes us "better than" or "more valuable" than the next person.


I completely agree but i think in the main we point the finger at the wrong people in this. The sub who has the high pain threshold seems to take most of the flack when in actuality it is in the main other subs or Dom's who revere them that make this attitude.
In actuality a high pain threshold sub IS more valuable than a low pain threshold sub BUT only to a Dom who wants / needs / requires that. We all have our higher value to some and lower to others.
What annoys me is we don't berate those who think sucha and such in a sub is higher value than such and such. It always seems to be the high pain threshold subs that get it in the neck.

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 9:47:41 AM   
missturbation


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From: another planet
Status: offline 		Actually an example comes to mind here. The last time i played in a club there was another couple playing, i have mentioned them before. Now please bare in mind the following is written from my perspective of soft and hard play.
 
The couple in my opinion were playing gently, he was tapping her with a paddle and flogger whilst she was restrained. Her skin had turned a shade just slightly above pink. The sub was extremely annoying, giggling loudly, crying red every two minutes and in general seeking attention.
 
I was playing with floggers, paddles and a single tail. My back and ass were flaming red with single tail dots and a few welts. It was quite heavy. I cried, yelped, snotted, wriggled, was probably reasonably loud but not as loud as the other sub.
 
Guess who people complained about?
Guess who a few revered?
 
Did i want that attention? No certainly not.
Did she want attention? Yes she most certainly did.
 
My point, i didn't ask for that reverence, i didn't ask for the complaints. I just went to play and enjoy myself at a club but it is nearly impossible in public clubs to go and come away without some attention negative or positive when you play hard. It gets tiring.
 

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 10:06:32 AM   
cpK69


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Status: offline 		I don’t revere, nor am I jealous. Amongst other masochist, and sadist, I would claim to be a wimp. I’m curious about watching a scene involving heavy play, and have wondered what it would be like to have the privilege of watching certain people doing those scenes, but that’s just the mental masochist in me, who likes to torment me with ideas of things I know I don’t really want.

Kim

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 10:17:54 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		Despite your implied presumption, many “pain sluts”, even the vain ones, have a lot of character, compassion and enjoy the spirit of service.  A high pain threshold or being proud of that does not negate all other personality traits. 

Being a socially active sadist, I can tell you that the pain threshold “priority” you speak of is alive and well on these boards and in real life.  There is a tendency to hold “pain sluts” in higher regard then a tenderfoot because they interface more easily with a wider range of people and BDSM ‘play’.  The same goes for “slut” verses a “prude” when applied to sexual play. 

If I were given a choice between a sexy “pain slut” and a tenderfoot prude, I would take the slut any day.  A priest may choose differently. 

So why do some of the girls that are pain sluts hold an ego about it?  I am sure it is the same answer as to why some pretty girls are vain . . . or why someone with a different ego structure “living for the spirit of BDSM” would make a post like yours. 


Vanity, to me, it looks the same on you as it does them.  Vanity  ....pfffffttttt.



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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 10:24:29 AM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Whoa everyone....

Not every person who wants to develope a higher pain tolerance wants that in order to compete or be better than someone else. 

I don't have a very high pain tolerance, yet I like or need or desire the pain for various other reasons, most of them being psychological.  Therefore, I would like to be able to tolerate a higher degree of pain, for a more extended period of time.  Plus, there are times when I wish I could actually enjoy the pain.  

I have never scened in public or with another submissive, nor have I ever had a dominant give me the sense that I'd be of more value to him if I could take more pain, so it's not a competition thing or one of "worth" for me.   I want to have a higher pain threshold for myself.  One:  So that me and a partner can enjoy more various methods of pain,  Two:  So that me and a partner can enjoy it for a longer period of time.  Three:  Because I'd like to, for once, look pretty and floaty when I'm taking pain, instead of writhing, crying, and clenching my teeth.  And Four:  Because the s-m is a big part of this for me, in that I enjoy the surrender to the pain, and the act of enduring and suffering at someone's hands, therefore it would be really nice to be able to have a higher tolerance and more "endurance".

Is this all there is to my submission?  Not even close.  But it's an aspect of it.  Do I lose sleep over this or question my worth because I have a low pain tolerance?  Nope.  Is it something I would like to adjust if I could?  Yes. 

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 10:39:05 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
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Status: offline 		There was no "implied presumption", nor was there "vanity" in what I wrote....but you're welcome to interpret it anyway you like. Just please don't tell me what I was trying to imply. I'd have to say that I'm a lot closer to knowing what's on my mind than you.

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Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 10:41:10 AM   
Jeptha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
.... However, a sadist, at least an ethical sadist, should be just as happy with someone with a lower pain tolerance if it is the suffering that does it for them. Actually, a lower pain tolerance would be a lot less work for them. ...


I don't think that's quite true. It's not only the suffering (and I'm not even sure that I'd use the word "suffering"; it might be more of a feeling of complete submission being mixed in with it, or something like that) that interests me; it does have something to do with my own physical involvement as well. There is a physicality to it that I seek. If I had a partner who was in discomfort at the drop of a hat, if I *constantly* had to reign in my physical touch in a very major way, I don't think I would be as engaged.
And I think I'm ethical.
Is that just me? I don't know.

As far as the celebrating part goes...
To be able to engage with a partner with those parameters a bit wider like that - it is something to celebrate, I think.

It's not that you celebrate it at the cost of anything else.

But if you find something you like, then indeed, it is a good thing - why feel guilty about celebrating it?

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 10:50:18 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

There is a physicality to it that I seek. If I had a partner who was in discomfort at the drop of a hat, if I *constantly* had to reign in my physical touch in a very major way, I don't think I would be as engaged.


Thank you for that perspective, I find it interesting and it really does explain where many might be coming from and why pain tolerance is so important from the Top perspective. I really do believe that it ends up boiling down to an issue of compatability. Not all sadists will be the perfect match for all masochists.

As far as your questions on celebrating I believe you may have missed my answer to that when I responded to missturbation.
quote:

I think that it is a good and fine thing to feel that way on a personal level. I believe that it becomes a problem though when we view it in a light that it makes us "better than" or "more valuable" than the next person.



_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 11:11:10 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Not to derail the thread in any way, but I have to throw this in there.

Whether the masses think being a pain slut brings a reverence from others or not, please do everyone a huge favor.  Please assess your own personal pain sluttiness by using a measurement from the reality stick.  Don't worry.  It's not that anyone's going to want to play with you less.  It just means that I'm going to play with you differently.

Now returning you to your regularly scheduled thread.


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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 11:11:29 AM   
happypervert


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From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		Maybe the high pain tolerance submissives are revered by tops who would rather get a work out by beating the hell out of someone instead of joining a gym. I'm lazy and much prefer submissives with low pain tolerance so when I feel like hurting them I can do so in no time at all. 

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 11:13:23 AM   
missturbation


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From: another planet
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quote:

But if you find something you like, then indeed, it is a good thing - why feel guilty about celebrating it?

 
Actually it's not just the guilt about celebrating it, it is the guilt you are made to feel about the whole thing. Why should i and others be made to feel guilty that we are revered by some? Why should we feel guilty that some people are jealous? Why should we be made to feel guitly we have high pain thresholds in general? We shouldn't, but quite often we are.
 
We don't make people feel guilty because they are good artists, teachers, dancers etc etc. They have worked hard to achieve their goals and so also have some of us high pain threshold people. Naturally i have a high tolerance to pain but i do as im sure others do too work at expanding on it.
 
It's implied revering or being jealous of a high threshold pain person is a bad thing, it shouldn't happen. Why not? It's human nature to revere, admire, be jealous and envy.



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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 11:24:30 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

My question is....WHY????

erin,
 
it's merely a guess, but it is what this slave came up with in answer to your question:
 
a high pain tolerance might not be the typical expression of masochism that most sadists run into...therefore it becomes viewed by them as "rare"...which can then lead to all sorts of assumptions.
 
it has been this slave's experience with things that are indeed rare, or perceived as rare, that they are either revered and held to be valuable with the potential for use as
* a commodity
*something to boost an ego about
*a celebrated aspect of Mother Nature's random uniqueness
 OR
*debased
*demoralized
*an aspect of individuals that, if brought to light, will have them burnt at the (if necessary, proverbial) stake
 
...depending on the individual community/agenda of the one(s) holding the power.
 
it can certainly have an effect on the individual who is cursed/blessed with the "rarity" to be viewed as such, either way, and not always in the way of vanity and pride.

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 11:28:13 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

There was no "implied presumption", nor was there "vanity" in what I wrote....but you're welcome to interpret it anyway you like. Just please don't tell me what I was trying to imply. I'd have to say that I'm a lot closer to knowing what's on my mind than you.

I stand corrected. 

To me, your OP reads parallel to someone saying:
“Why is deep throat revered in oral sex?  I suck cock too but don’t brag about it and hate it when someone likes the fact I can deep throat.  deep throat …. ....pfffffttttt”.”  

“Pain tolerance....pfffffttttt.” seems to discount people that value pain sluts.  Perhaps you can explain exactly what you did mean by that parting shot if it was to imply something else? 
~~~~~~~~
I agree that a pain slut and a submissive role have no connection or correlation to each other.  

My personal relationship values in BDSM are in accord with yours.  It is the spiritual side, the meaning behind the actions rather the actions themselves or someone’s ability to ‘tolerate’ or perform a certain action that motivate me.  Nonetheless, I do not discount the value of physical talents or attributes and find no more mystery in the appeal of deep throat for oral sex than the appeal of pain tolerance for BDSM acts.  Note, BDSM acts being a subset of a lifestyle relationship.  So why wouldn’t a deep throating, anal whore, rope addicted, pain slut hold more appeal because of the range of acts I can share in the relationship?  I don’t see how this could be a mystery to you? 

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 12/19/2008 11:33:34 AM >

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RE: High pain tolerance....why is it revered? - 12/19/2008 11:47:12 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
“Pain tolerance....pfffffttttt.” seems to discount people that value pain sluts.  Perhaps you can explain exactly what you did mean by that parting shot if it was to imply something else? 


Thank you for asking. What I meant by it is that I don't believe that pain tolerance should be held up as a standard that would indicate an overall level of value that needs to be strived for or emulated as that particular characteristic certainly does not represent the total, or even most important value of that person. I don't believe that others should ever look at such a characteristic and feel as though they are inferior beings because they are not at the same level. It is a characteristic that some folks have in their hard wiring that is far more dependent upon their make-up than their effort, although over time it can be developed. But it is certainly not the indicator of uber submissiveness that some people seem to view it as. Yes, it can be something that is desireable. But no one should feel like they are less of a person...or less of a sub/slave...because they don't have that ability. And no one should have to feel outcast or like other submissives are looking down their nose at you because you do have that ability. And yes, it goes both ways, as missturbation pointed out. I too, have gotten both responses. I am sometimes looked up to for it and desired for it...and on the opposite side of the coin I have been labelled a painslut by others who imply that being a painslut makes you more of a player and less likely to be considered as being serious in your submission. Certainly there are many wonderful "s" types who have high pain tolerances and it is wrong, in my opinion, to view them solely by their pain tolerances. Not sure if that makes any more sense or not...

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 12/19/2008 11:49:23 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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