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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 3:30:19 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Saddened, with a hope that they've at least had a chance to try Domination, and a wish they teach their daughters they always have a choice. Sadists posing as doms who are threatened by Dommes, and passive-aggressive masochists with zilch self-esteem are big reasons I eschew most meetings.
And I'm repulsed by the sadistic banner ads in CM; I have to alter my browser to keep 'em out.

That doesn't make me sad in the least. Well no more sad than seeing a man treated like a dog.

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 3:32:15 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reigna

How do I view femsubs? As people who are way, way, WAY on the wrong side of the kneel. I don't get my feminist panties in a twist over it, though.

How do I view female submission? As I would a place where I once spent a couple of miserable years. Count me as someone who doesn't understand why anyone, male or female, would submit--though I sure love it when they do!

How do you feel about lesbian couples? Is one of them on the wrong side of the kneel? Should they both be dommes?

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 3:38:52 AM

MsFlutter

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Shaktisama, LadyPact and Lashra have already said it so well :)

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 5:01:21 AM

MsStarlett

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I admit to agreeing with all that has been said in prior posts. To each her own. As long as that is what SHE wants!

I also have to admit that Female subs are one of those areas where I have to consciously work on my tolerance levels. One the one hand, I am the type of Dominant who believes the true power is in the sub, because s/he has the right to say "No" or "More". It also takes a great deal more personal strength to take a beating than to dish one out. I just feel that this area is more pronounced in the FD/ms arena because most men possess the physical and mental strength as well as social standing to stand up, say "Enough!", and walk away.

As a victim of domestic violence, date rape, and what could be called socially dictated non consensual forced submission in male dominated workplaces, I don't believe that is always so for female subs. YES! I know that many MD/fs dynamics work perfectly well and all is great between them. But I also know that 99% of cases of domestic violence and rape are perpetrated by frustrated men who take out their agressions on women who do not have the physical ability to fight back or who feel 'trapped' in a situation where they have no financial or social support to leave. It just is always grating on the back of my mind, "Does that woman actually WANT this or is it being forced upon her?"

Having said this, and before people go all crazy on me, I want you all to know that I do have several male Dom friends. My best friend and mentor is a Dom who is a true sadist and takes great delight in tormenting his fem subs. But I know HIM! I know that he would never, ever do anything to a woman that she didn't actually want done. I just do not have any female sub friends who can honestly explain why they do what they do to me on a personal level.

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 5:47:25 AM

beeble

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quote:

MsStarlett wrote:
I just do not have any female sub friends who can honestly explain why they do what they do to me on a personal level.

I don't think I could explain why I submit, either. I can tell you that I enjoy pleasing my partner and that various physical acts turn me on but that doesn't really explain why I allow myself to be brought close to tears from pain and frustration. I don't think I can say that I enjoy that but I do seem to need it and, when my Mistress gathers me up and makes it better, my thanks for my suffering are genuine and not just because of some protocol.

I'm not worried by what I do and I don't feel guilty about it. But it doesn't make much sense to me, either.

beeble.

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 6:03:16 AM

LadyLou

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Female submission as a singular entity; then as has been said here, to each their own. Assuming all is consensual and is what the woman wants, then more power to 'em. I would hope that I would look beyond someones orientation, and not judge them as a whole person, by one innocuous aspect of who they are. What would be tragic, is someone denying themselves, and ultimately screwing themselves over, by trying to be something they are not, due to peer pressure or social expectation. I find some woman attractive, particularly, strong, confident submissive women who embrace their nature, makes no difference to which gender they choose to submit. I certainly don't see male dominants who dominate women as threatening in any way. Nor do I see the women who choose submit to them as 'lesser' in any way. We are what we are, we do what we do, it is what it is. Sometimes, it seems as if our society is gender obsessed, over-analysing, and inadvertently attributing all kinds of crazy notions and standards in doing so.

That said, (with some exceptions) I can sometimes find it a turn off watching the act a woman submitting to a man. I can be aroused by, and enjoy the energy involved, but it's just not my cup of tea – along with face masks, carob bars, and instant decaf coffee. But I like to think I am intelligent enough not let my 'kink ick factor' dictate how I relate to a person.

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 6:42:35 AM

DeferentialBaby2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett
I just do not have any female sub friends who can honestly explain why they do what they do to me on a personal level.

I am not surprised. The ability to explain a sexual orientation to someone who does not share that orientation in a way that insures the other "gets" it requires levels of introspection, analysis, and communication that most people do not have. In my experience, however, it can be done, and done quite sucessfully.

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 8:05:55 AM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Females who submit to males don't bother Me in the least. I don't happen to believe in supremacy or domination according to gender. It's not genitalia that dictates what side of the kneel a person is on. It comes from within.

If a person is inclined to be submissive, that's who they should be. For Me to want to change them is no better than someone wanting to change Me because I happen to be a Dominant. If they are happy in the life they are living, who am I to tell them that they are doing it wrong?

LadyPact has expressed how I feel almost exactly.

I didn't always feel this way, but then I realized the hypocrisy of my thoughts.

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 8:13:45 AM

SunNMoon

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As long as they are happy, that's all that matters. Other people already stated to each their own, after all everyone is different. Why would I look down on someone for choosing to submit or not? Gender shouldn't matter after all it's all about choice.

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 8:20:23 AM

colouredin

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Humm well talking about womens lib is ironic becuase surely its all about choice?

I read this article recently saying that paris hilton shouldnt be admired by girls because femininsts had done all this work and yadda yadda. thats just complete crap. Some people seem to think that feminism means having to have a high powered job, not like chivelrous men etc etc feminism has simply given us the option to choose to be who or what we be. The point is we dont HAVE to be housewives but we CAN be.

By that way of thinking all women should be feminists and no women should be saying anyones choice is against the greater good just revel in the fact that we are allowed to make them.

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 8:35:36 AM

thetammyjo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcademyForSlaves

There's lots of women that are submissive to men even outside of bdsm. Maybe your mom stayed in the kitchen and always did what your dad wanted or maybe you have female friends that are not dominant or maybe you attend bdsm parties and see female slaves being tied up and led around by men.

As a dominant mistress what do you think about women that submit to men?

On a gut level reaction I have only negative feelings. As a survivor who has seen other female relatives have to survive her family and as a historian who looks at issues of gender and sexual dynamics, I cannot in my life understand why mothers and fathers, children and partners will treat daughters, mothers and partners as less than sons, fathers, and partners.

On an intellectual level I can understand why people do this both consensually and non-consensually.

On a BDSM level I have known several male dominants and female submissives I have grown to respect and admire -- sadly it's less than those I'd rather I never meet again. As I decrease my interactions with anyone who does not do Ds or Ms 24/7 or seriously the numbers I can respect goes up dramatically.

The same is similar to those who are female dominant and male submissive. The numbers I have a negative reaction outnumbers those that I respect and this changes when I limit myself to interactions with those who have a more realistic and honest approach to their lives.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 1/4/2009 8:41:07 AM >

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 8:37:19 AM

MsStarlett

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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Humm well talking about womens lib is ironic becuase surely its all about choice?

Yes, it is. But sometimes it is just difficult for those of us who made a different choice to understand why someone else went the other way. I have spoken to my male subs and asked them "Why do you do this?" because I never want one of my boys to do something just for me that they didn't really want to do on some level. My Westie is my only "natural born" pain slut. He explained it as a 'runner's high'. That yes, it hurts. It hurts a lot when I let go with the floggers. But after a bit, the endorphins kick in (or something like that) and it starts to feel good.

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 8:40:39 AM

chiaThePet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcademyForSlaves

As a dominant mistress what do you think about women that submit to men?

Well, I'm not a Dominant Mistress, but I play one on T.V,
(think Honey West trapped in Tyne Daly's butch) sooooo;

As long as I can borrow those Manolo Blahnik alligator boots,
we can be BFF's without a doubt.

Hey.

chia* (the pet)

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 8:41:41 AM

colouredin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

Humm well talking about womens lib is ironic becuase surely its all about choice?

Yes, it is. But sometimes it is just difficult for those of us who made a different choice to understand why someone else went the other way.

Oh I am sure that it is, but isnt that true of everything? I dont understand why some people like loud shouty music, I dont understand why some people dont read books. But what gender they are makes no differance. Not understanding what someone gets out of being a submissive has nothing to do with whether that person is a woman or not and therefore has nothing to do with womens lib. It is simply something about that individual.

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 8:45:36 AM

Celene

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Submission is certainly a choice, and I am all for choice. And all for accepting responsibility for choice.

I used to not be able to see female submission as a power exchange; and still have difficulty accepting the idea that M/f is "TPE", based on our social stereotyping. But I had the pleasure many years ago of attending an informational gathering at the Lair (before they had "Venus" night) and hearing Nina Hartley define/describe what submission did for her. While I can't express it nearly as well as she did, it opened my eyes to the fact that if what you desire and are most happy doing is submitting then do that and be happy.

Also touched on here is the fact that not all females are submitting to males, just as all male submissives aren't looking for females to dominate them. It isn't a problem for me that we are not all wired the same. I'm not going to ask the straight to be gay, the dominant to submit or vice-versa. One size does NOT fit all.

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 8:57:00 AM

laura2161

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RainydayNE

i'm not a mistress so i might be "overstepping" or whatever, but this thread reminds me of a response to ANOTHER thread by a Domme, where she basically said that femsubs made her sick or whatever and she felt like all the work women's libbers had done was being thrown out the window =p
women's lib, as far as i understand, was essentially about freedom to be who you are, without having society dictate what you "should" be
i can be submissive because i WANT to be submissive, not because i'm supposed to be, or because men are better or God made women that way. =p
i see consensual submission as being totally in line with "liberation," just not the type that makes certain types of OTHER people happy.
oh well.
just my $0.02

I saw that remark also and I agree with you that women's lib is about choice. I happen to choose submission, like you.

I guess we both will go on making her sick to her stomach.

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 9:23:17 AM

MISTRESSKUMA

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcademyForSlaves

There's lots of women that are submissive to men even outside of bdsm. Maybe your mom stayed in the kitchen and always did what your dad wanted or maybe you have female friends that are not dominant or maybe you attend bdsm parties and see female slaves being tied up and led around by men.

As a dominant mistress what do you think about women that submit to men?

It is just a clever Woman getting her way through other means.

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 9:32:14 AM

Celene

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 9:35:25 AM

beeble

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quote:

MISTRESSKUMA wrote: It is just a clever Woman getting her way through other means.

I should damn well hope it's a woman getting what she wants: we call it `abuse', otherwise. But by slotting `clever' in there, you imply a scheming manipulation that I, as a submissive, actually find rather offensive.

beeble

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RE: How do you view female submission? - 1/4/2009 9:46:18 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: beeble

quote:

MISTRESSKUMA wrote: It is just a clever Woman getting her way through other means.

I should damn well hope it's a woman getting what she wants: we call it `abuse', otherwise. But by slotting `clever' in there, you imply a scheming manipulation that I, as a submissive, actually find rather offensive.

beeble

I wondered about that also. So she's not really submissive, she's just acting like that to get what she wants?

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