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RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/13/2004 11:50:14 AM   
stormiKnightBEAR


Posts: 306
Joined: 3/14/2004
Status: offline 		dark Angel,

Thanks for all that you've taught this girl as well.

That's what it's really about LEARNING!!

Be safe chicky!


stormi
property of Master Bear

_____________________________

owned white silk slave of TEMJI aka Master Bear

PROUD TO BE TEXAN AND AMERICAN BY BIRTH~
GOD BLESS TEXAS AND THE U.S.A !!!!

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/13/2004 11:15:06 PM   
Thanatosian


Posts: 765
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline
quote:

However, I'm a little bit confused with others, as to whether they are actually living the Gorean lifestyle in real life, or playing an online game, and applying some of the "game" to lifestyle "play".


cant tell your players without a scorecard

my understanding/interpretations (so far)
GreyDragon - online
Temji, Sundew, Leonidas, Stormi - real life
Dread - applying what she sees fit to her lifestyle

as for myself, I have taken tenets of Gor and tenets of Old Guard and tenets of New Guard and tenets I have learned elsewhere and tenets I have made myself and blended them into this collage that I use for my own lifestyle, which is why I must disagree with Temji when he says
quote:

love it or hate, there's no inbetween
as I define myself as an inbetweener, utilising some aspects of the Gorean lifestyle admixed and conjoined with other aspects of other lifestyles in my own philosophy of what I consider the lifestyle - oh, and I dont view the Gorean aspects I have incorporated as part of a 'game', but as part of a lifestyle that is not quite exactly right for me, but more right than wrong

clear as mud?

_____________________________

Apply Usual Caveats Here

An expert is somone who has made all the mistakes there are to be made

(in reply to LadyBeckett)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/14/2004 12:24:38 AM   
GreyDragon1952


Posts: 40
Joined: 1/18/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Everyone on this board is equal to everyone else. I am neither inferior or superior to anyone, and unless you're in a relationship with that particular person, it is not your place to judge how whether they should or should not reply.
Ahh if that were true then there would be no need for this board for we all be equals in every thing we are and do.
I must disagree with you the only thing equal about us is our access to these boards and even that can be taken away for cause.
Every time I hear someone say they are my equal I have to see if I’m looking in a mirror, since I don’t see a reflection of myself then how can you say you’re my equal. I can not give birth to children, and likely you can’t bench press 200lbs like I can (I’m getting old) I’m sure I could list 100’s of things about us that are different, so how can you say we are equal? Would your boss at work think your equal to them, think They would give up their parking place because you said your both equal, I think not, chances are you did it more than once you be looking for a new job. Are you equal to your children, does your child have the right to tell you what you can do? Or do you let your child tell you what they are going to do and when. Your neighbor parks his car in your driveway they are equal to you? So it’s ok?
Sometimes you will know something I don’t and sometimes I will know something you don’t but don’t say everyone here is equal we are not. I can’t be sure but if your Master were here on the boards would you feel equal with him and would he think you were his equal.
This just my opinion but I don’t even see identical twins as being equals, they look a lot the same but they will be the first to tell you they are not

So please don’t tell Me we are all equal. And if we ever were what a boring world this would be. To be reduced to the level of ants, because that’s what equal means being.

Just my opinion

Grey Dragon

(in reply to kiki blue)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/14/2004 1:41:24 AM   
GreyDragon1952


Posts: 40
Joined: 1/18/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

quote:

GreyDragon: (Thank you for speaking up Leonidas I do hope your owner's Ok to speak, have a cooke )


You know, I missed this. Interesting, in a cowardly sort of way. I'm generally willing to chalk up someone expecting deference from submissives on a message board to simple inexperience. Treating someone as if they are a slave who doesn't claim to be is, well, about what I would expect from a 14 year old who is being naughty on daddy's computer before he gets home. Some people's children, I guess.

The other thing that I notice is that the sentence structure here (or lack of it) is awfully damn familliar. Hmmmm....

My apologies I mixed up the name, and thought I was speaking to a submissive. Next time I will make sure I have my reading glass on and use eyedrops more often. I should also have checked the profile before saying anything. and pardon the sentance form I think I will have to reset the res of my computer srcreen on it so I can read what the hell I'm typing. proof reading is a bitch and I do try so hard to get it right. After so many hours in front of my computer my contacts just dry out to the point where even the reading glasses I wear don't help.

quote:


ORIGINAL: Leonidas

As a submissive man, it's probably not something that you'll want to pursue. Submissive men among lifestyle Goreans are rare. Unlike the broader D/s community, the Gorean way is a group dynamic, not an individual one. You would be treated as a slave by all the free men and women in the accepted group. As a kajirus (male slave) about the best that you could expect from Gorean free men would be regular humilliation, general distain, and, if you were an extremely good slave to your mistress, maybe, just maybe, grudging acknowledgement of your value. Needless to say, being in that position isn't something that appeals to most submissive men.


It was the part 'As a submissive man' part that threw me, and after as I said long hours didn't make the right conectiont. Don't take it to hard. It was an error I didn't catch in time. and as you said you missed it the first time so we can all make them. Sentence structure Pardon me, I'm sure most of the people here got far better marks in English and language than I ever did in school it was something I hated and never did understand fully. For me now its just one of the things I keep working on to improve now that I better understand its value.

Grey Dragon
You know shoe leather don't taste so bad once you get used to the taste and use a lot of salt

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/14/2004 2:12:42 AM   
GreyDragon1952


Posts: 40
Joined: 1/18/2004
Status: offline 		Temji KnightStorm

You have a fine slave, And you don't need Me to tell you that.

This has helped me a great deal and I'm glad you were able to take the time out of your busy day to make your replies. It can be hard for some us to realize that there is more to life than these boards.

But you did prove one of my points. that if it was important enough to you, you would say so, and you did. That your girl had your blessing was not made clear. It is now. I hope I'm learning to better understand the ways of those that live it real life verse what I have learn of online. There are more differences that I had first realized. And thanks to everyone here I’m beginning to understand better some of the changes I still have to make in my thinking.

It should be easier now, now that so many have enlightened me. Its not so easy when you do not have many t talk to.

Grey Dragon

(in reply to Temji)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/14/2004 7:59:35 AM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyDragon1952
Ahh if that were true then there would be no need for this board for we all be equals in every thing we are and do.


You are not inferior or superior to anyone on this board. The moderators have authority over us, but they are not superior to us. We all have opinions, which can and do differ - that does not make one person more superior than another.

quote:


I must disagree with you the only thing equal about us is our access to these boards and even that can be taken away for cause.
Every time I hear someone say they are my equal I have to see if I’m looking in a mirror, since I don’t see a reflection of myself then how can you say you’re my equal.


I have the same rights as you. I have the same access to the same or similar government bodies as you. I look at those on this board as being my peers, my equals. I deal with people as people first, not how they ID themselves in a relationship.

quote:


I can not give birth to children, and likely you can’t bench press 200lbs like I can (I’m getting old) I’m sure I could list 100’s of things about us that are different, so how can you say we are equal?


I didn't say we were the same, I said we were equals, on this board. We all have different experiences and different outlooks and opinions, but we are similar in wants and needs and desires.

And our need to express those.

quote:


Would your boss at work think your equal to them, think They would give up their parking place because you said your both equal, I think not, chances are you did it more than once you be looking for a new job.


My boss doesn't believe she's better than me, she has a different role to play. She knows my role is vital to the success of the company, as is every other employee's role. Also, for those who do drive in, there are no set parking spaces, as it's a public car park. The company I work for believes in Open Book Management - the only things hidden are personnel files (though I can see mine at any time) and anything that is bound by a confidentiality agreement. Those are usually revealed to us in due time, though. So, at my work place, we reinforce the idea that we are all on the same playing field, but with different positions to make it work.

quote:


Are you equal to your children, does your child have the right to tell you what you can do? Or do you let your child tell you what they are going to do and when.


You're confusing authority with equality. A parent has legal and moral authority over their child, it is their place to teach, guide and lead their child. Which will at times involve discipline and assertion of authority.

quote:


Your neighbor parks his car in your driveway they are equal to you? So it’s ok?


Now you're confusing ineptitude and/or rudeness with equality. And my neighbour can park in my driveway - I live in a block of flats, so we share a driveway.

quote:


Sometimes you will know something I don’t and sometimes I will know something you don’t but don’t say everyone here is equal we are not.


The levels of experience and knowledge will vary from person to person. Just because one person knows more doesn't mean they're better than someone else. Just because someone knows less, doesn't mean they're worse than anyone else.

Equal as humans, as kinksters, as peers, is what I'm referring to. I'm not saying we've all got the same outlook, opinion, experience and life style.

quote:


I can’t be sure but if your Master were here on the boards would you feel equal with him and would he think you were his equal.


My ex and I were equals. He had the authority, but as people, we were equals. Submitting to someone does not make one less or inferior to the other. Having someone submit to you does not make you better or superior to them.

quote:


This just my opinion but I don’t even see identical twins as being equals, they look a lot the same but they will be the first to tell you they are not


Again, you're confusing "equal" with "same as".

Big difference.

quote:


So please don’t tell Me we are all equal. And if we ever were what a boring world this would be. To be reduced to the level of ants, because that’s what equal means being.


I for one don't treat people like they're beneath me, nor do I assosciate with people who believe they're superior. Delusions of grandeur are still delusions.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to GreyDragon1952)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/14/2004 8:34:14 AM   
stormiKnightBEAR


Posts: 306
Joined: 3/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kiki blue

I for one don't treat people like they're beneath me, nor do I assosciate with people who believe they're superior. Delusions of grandeur are still delusions.



kiki,
YOU sound FABULOUS!!!

stormi
property of Master Bear

_____________________________

owned white silk slave of TEMJI aka Master Bear

PROUD TO BE TEXAN AND AMERICAN BY BIRTH~
GOD BLESS TEXAS AND THE U.S.A !!!!

(in reply to kiki blue)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/14/2004 9:47:14 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		I apreciate you taking the time to clarify

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to GreyDragon1952)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/14/2004 8:33:05 PM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stormiKnightBEAR
kiki,
YOU sound FABULOUS!!!


That'd be because I am LOL

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to stormiKnightBEAR)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/14/2004 8:41:28 PM   
gitta


Posts: 110
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Looks at kiki, indeed you are....thanks for all of your views, always a pleasure to read them

_____________________________

smiles,
gitta

(in reply to kiki blue)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/15/2004 12:57:58 AM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Nicely said, kiki.

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to kiki blue)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/15/2004 12:59:04 AM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gitta

Looks at kiki, indeed you are....thanks for all of your views, always a pleasure to read them


Thank you, and you're welcome :)

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to gitta)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/15/2004 2:51:31 PM   
Thanatosian


Posts: 765
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline 		I have found that, when reading GreyDragon's posts, it helps to remind myself that he is coming from the online only viewpoint - where anyone designated as a submissive is considered lower than anyone designated as a dominant - it puts it into perspective, as it were (at least for me) and helps me (somewhat) understand his point of view

_____________________________

Apply Usual Caveats Here

An expert is somone who has made all the mistakes there are to be made

(in reply to stormiKnightBEAR)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/15/2004 9:57:39 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

where anyone designated as a submissive is considered lower than anyone designated as a dominant


*looks at his world map and Dominantly opines*

Not in Australia.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Thanatosian)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/16/2004 6:03:17 AM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thanatosian

I have found that, when reading GreyDragon's posts, it helps to remind myself that he is coming from the online only viewpoint - where anyone designated as a submissive is considered lower than anyone designated as a dominant - it puts it into perspective, as it were (at least for me) and helps me (somewhat) understand his point of view


If you're dealing with Gorean chatrooms only, sure I can see that - those are the only rooms I've seen where anyone female was put on a lower level than men.

But that doesn't mean it's ok to treat everyone who ID's as a subly type like they're not worthy of conversation elsewhere too.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to Thanatosian)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/16/2004 7:14:10 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

If you're dealing with Gorean chatrooms only, sure I can see that - those are the only rooms I've seen where anyone female was put on a lower level than men.


Depends on what you mean by "on a lower level". Our free women, and certainly slaves, don't have equal license to become combative with men. To do so shows a lack of respect in two directions: Toward the man, and also toward the institution of Gorean free womanhood or female slavery. When a woman self-selects into one or the other of these groups, she is expected to behave in a manner that is consistant with what she says she is. Nobody is forcing her to claim either status. That is her doing. If the woman in question is a guest among us, she is expected to follow the adage that your grandmother probably taught you "if you don't have anything nice to say.....". Does that put her on a lower level? Not really, just in a different role. In another context, you seem to understand the notion of different roles fairly well. It looks like your understanding breaks down here. In the culture that is the company you work for, you wouldn't become combative with your boss in a public setting, and attempt to overrule him or her or order him or her around. To do so would probably risk being invited to leave that particular culture. You might, however, present a persuasive argument as to why your idea about something has merit and deserves consideration. As you said elsewhere, it's not a question of better or worse, higher or lower, it is just a question of different roles in the culture.

quote:

But that doesn't mean it's ok to treat everyone who ID's as a subly type like they're not worthy of conversation elsewhere too.


You may well have seen situations online where this is so, I don't know. It could also be that the way that we interact is unfamilliar to you, and so you just interpret it that way. There are lots of peacock HNGs on a power trip out there who like to tell a woman to be quiet for the hell of it, but then, you'll find that type here on collarme too (though they tend to troll the profiles more than post to the boards, I think). I don't know any serious Gorean man who thinks that women aren't worthy of conversation. A woman who can express her opinions with intellectual weight and persuasiveness without becoming combative or resorting to personal attacks, as many of our women can with astonishing grace, is anything but unworthy. In fact, far more worthy to my way of thinking than a subby who goes around looking for an argument to prove that she's not at all submissive to anyone but the one to whom she's given her precious gift, or to show that she's a member of the "smart ass masochist" club.

Where we differ in a way that might chap your ass a little is that we don't think that everyone is entitled to a public opinion about everything. For example, line of reasoning by a female slave that starts out something like "a real man would....." won't be well recieved. Any more than a publically stated opinion along the lines of "Any vice president worth their salt would......" would be well recieved where you work, if you don't happen to be at that level or higher in the organization. We believe that free men define what a real man would do, and that if a slave has some opinion about that, it is her opinion alone and has no place in the public discourse.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/16/2004 8:02:23 AM >

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to kiki blue)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/16/2004 8:33:09 AM   
GoddessJules


Posts: 549
Status: offline 		Leonidas,

Although I do not have any interest in partaking in the gorean lifestyle, I think that your detailed, informative, and patient responses to the questions posed on the topic has given me some understanding of it. I think if anything, I can appreciate those that can adhere to that lifestyle consistently.
And one thing that you said struck me:
quote:

When a woman self-selects into one or the other of these groups, she is expected to behave in a manner that is consistant with what she says she is. Nobody is forcing her to claim either status.


I think that people just have a hard time understanding that even a "free woman" chooses this way of life and I do agree if she self identifies with this. . .that she should indeed carry herself in the manner in which she self proclaimed.

Thanks for the insightful posts.

Cheers~

~Jules~

_____________________________

A pig's pussy is still pork, just like a bull's balls are still beef.
Click here to visit my site

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/17/2004 3:05:45 AM   
Sundew02


Posts: 457
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		I have patiently read through all the posts on this thread. The one thing I will say is that all have remained civil. But I will interject this. My thoughts, intelligence and free-will are as important as any males. No matter how you phrase it...shut up, be quiet, or you have no right to an opinion, it is still the same message. Never would I say "A real man would" OR "A real woman would"... As we are ALL real, with feelings, ideas and opinions worth hearing. We are all REAL, no philosophy, lifestyle or culture should have the right to make us less. Only encourage us to be the best we can be. Self worth, respect for others, and the right to raise our voices for what we believe in only makes us stronger. Sundew

_____________________________


~~~~~Enjoy the ride, the landing could get painful~~~~

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/17/2004 7:58:36 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thanatosian

I have found that, when reading GreyDragon's posts, it helps to remind myself that he is coming from the online only viewpoint - where anyone designated as a submissive is considered lower than anyone designated as a dominant - it puts it into perspective, as it were (at least for me) and helps me (somewhat) understand his point of view


*cringing as she hears herself disagreeing, because she really isnt trying to be difficult...lol*

I just wished to add that I do know a few 'onlineonly' Goreans... One in particular... and never did I feel they considered Angel 'lower' than themselves. I was always taught that a good and strong slave was a prize to be cherished... something and someone to be treasured. Maybe I have been fortunate in my journey and meetings, but that is Angels personal experience.


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Thanatosian)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Gorean slave silks - 8/17/2004 1:39:40 PM   
Thanatosian


Posts: 765
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline
quote:

*cringing as she hears herself disagreeing, because she really isnt trying to be difficult...lol*


no need to cringe, I only bite on request(as long as we are not discussing politics, anyway - and even there I tend to bark loudly rather than bite)

_____________________________

Apply Usual Caveats Here

An expert is somone who has made all the mistakes there are to be made

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 100
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