RE: britain wants guns back

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 2:46:18 PM

KaineD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Polite, what if he ran them over with a car?
Or threw them out of windows?
You don't blame the inanimate object you blame the miscreant.

Ridiculous argument.

Guns are designed with the purpose of killing.

Some guns, like semi-autos, are designed to kill many people as quickly as possible.

Cars are designed for transport.

The two cannot be compared.

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Post #: 41

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 3:32:45 PM

variation30

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

The government was about to ban fox hunting (a particularly cruel 'sport'), and these Conservative party voters organized this march in protest. The Countryside Alliance's aim is to protect fox hunting. It's a very monochrome pressure group, much joked about... and now, you brought it back to the table !

a) the lumpenproletariat: this is why we can't have nice things
b) this relates to america like this: when we are told we can't have weapons for this or that or this or that, there is always the reassurances that hunting will be left alone or something else will be left alone, etc. I think this is a fantastic example of how there cannot be any assurances a government (any government) will leave your property alone. there are no boundaries they respect.

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Post #: 42

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 3:35:00 PM

variation30

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Fox hunting involves the tearing apart of an animal by a pack of hounds. The fox doesn't even get shot. It's barbaric. And now... banned, in England and Wales. Soon, in Scotland, I believe.

MAKE DOGS ILLEGAL

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Post #: 43

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 3:36:08 PM

variation30

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Labour were elected partly on the promise to ban hunting. Its called democracy. As for hand guns being banned, that was after 16 little kids were murded by some nut with a hand gun. There was no public outcry over the ban on hand guns, as most of us here agreed with it.

deomcracy may be one of the worst ideas every conceived.

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Post #: 44

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 3:38:34 PM

variation30

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Id like to see you tell the parents that Popeye. The fact is the majority here are comfortable with not having guns.

um. I would tell it to the parents. if the majority of people are comfortable not having guns, fantastic. I would never force them to have one. but if there are people (even a small minority) who want to have them...why is that too much to ask? do things suddenly become unimportant when it is only a minority that wishes them?

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Post #: 45

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 3:39:43 PM

variation30

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I don't think many people know about Dunblane. Such school massacres may have become a fairly common occurrence in America, but not in the U.K. It's for the precise reason that the British people wanted to avoid a recurrence of that tragedy that gun control is exercised so stringently over there.

the u.k. should've listened to Hayek before it was too late.

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Post #: 46

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 3:42:04 PM

variation30

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

And it's tragic, Ven. I just think that regardless of which side of the gun control equation one finds oneself on, it's illogical and wrong to ignore the correlation "liberal gun use = increased massacres".

I would suggest that perhaps there are more variables at work than that correlation acknowledges.

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Post #: 47

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 3:43:07 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gman992

They ban guns...and then people start killing each other with knives.

You're missing a pertinent point.

England has one of the lowest murder rates in the developed world.

If memory serves: 1/8th that of Scotland; 1/4th that of France, 1/16th that of Italy, 1/26th that of the United States etc.

All in a country where guns are banned.

I do agree with one point, however - where you have considerable respect for another, you have a reduced murder rate (guns or no guns).

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RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 3:47:37 PM

SilverMark

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Not to hijack but, did you read the list of school shootings referenced on that Wiki page explaining Dunblane?
Damn!

< Message edited by SilverMark -- 1/22/2009 3:57:29 PM >

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Post #: 49

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 3:48:52 PM

Irishknight

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Polite, what if he ran them over with a car?
Or threw them out of windows?
You don't blame the inanimate object you blame the miscreant.

Ridiculous argument.

Guns are designed with the purpose of killing.

Some guns, like semi-autos, are designed to kill many people as quickly as possible.

Cars are designed for transport.

The two cannot be compared.

Semi auto = 1 trigger pull for one bullet. I can fire a double or single action revolver just as quickly as a semi auto.

Automatics are designed to fire large numbers of rounds rapidly in order to get more kills.

As to your apparent belief that guns are inherently evil, no gun has EVER jumped up, loaded itself and shot a human being without the aid of a human. A gun will lay on a table for 50 years without harming anyone. Blaming the gun instead of the person pulling the trigger is a copout. What other criminal acts do you give a free ride to?

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Post #: 50

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 3:52:55 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

um. I would tell it to the parents. if the majority of people are comfortable not having guns, fantastic. I would never force them to have one. but if there are people (even a small minority) who want to have them...why is that too much to ask? do things suddenly become unimportant when it is only a minority that wishes them?

You obviously dont like the democratic principal. Freedom of choice to have guns in a society, is no different from freedom of choice not to have them. I wonder if you would hold the same view if your child had been killed, somehow I doubt it.

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Post #: 51

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 3:56:17 PM

KaineD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I don't think many people know about Dunblane. Such school massacres may have become a fairly common occurrence in America, but not in the U.K. It's for the precise reason that the British people wanted to avoid a recurrence of that tragedy that gun control is exercised so stringently over there.

the u.k. should've listened to Hayek before it was too late.

But the UK people couldn't care less about guns. It's a different culture to the US.

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Post #: 52

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 4:01:56 PM

slaveboyforyou

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Fast Reply:

I really don't care about the UK's gun laws. Quite honestly as someone who hunts, I don't find fox hunting to be very sporting. I've wanted my state to ban the use of dogs in deer hunting for years. The issue was brought up about 5 years ago, and all the dog hunting retards showed up and raised hell.

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Post #: 53

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 4:05:53 PM

variation30

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

UK has a knife crime issue... America has a gun crime issue... which would I prefer? Hmmm!

I'd prefer to be in whichever place allows me to carry an sp101 to protect myself from either the knife or the gun crime issue.

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Post #: 54

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 4:06:15 PM

KaineD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Semi auto = 1 trigger pull for one bullet. I can fire a double or single action revolver just as quickly as a semi auto.

Automatics are designed to fire large numbers of rounds rapidly in order to get more kills.

As to your apparent belief that guns are inherently evil, no gun has EVER jumped up, loaded itself and shot a human being without the aid of a human. A gun will lay on a table for 50 years without harming anyone. Blaming the gun instead of the person pulling the trigger is a copout. What other criminal acts do you give a free ride to?

My bad about the semi-auto/auto confusion.

As for your argument. Basically you created a strawman argument there. You turned the argument into your own little version, because obviously niether I or any other anti-gun person would ever claim guns just jump up and shoot people of their own accord. You set up a stupid version of my argument which had nothing to do with inanimate objects being animate. And your question, "what other criminal acts do you give a free ride to", that's a non-sequitur. It's got nothing to do with the argument of effective gun laws.

Statistics speak for themselves. Exactly how many school shootings are you comfortable with before you think that maybe better gun laws would be a great idea? You would argue personal responsibility, I'm sure, which is a sound argument. But obviously not everyone is responsible, and it is clearly too easy for the wrong people to get a hold of deadly weaponry in the US. So how about showing some responsibility for your society as a whole? As opposed to blaming video games or rock music, the usual excuses people in your country come up with to avoid the real issue - gun control.

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Post #: 55

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 4:07:53 PM

KaineD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Fast Reply:

I really don't care about the UK's gun laws. Quite honestly as someone who hunts, I don't find fox hunting to be very sporting. I've wanted my state to ban the use of dogs in deer hunting for years. The issue was brought up about 5 years ago, and all the dog hunting retards showed up and raised hell.

Yeah, I never really got why they call it a sport, when its the dogs that do all the work.

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Post #: 56

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 4:08:05 PM

variation30

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

You're missing a pertinent point.

England has one of the lowest murder rates in the developed world.

If memory serves: 1/8th that of Scotland; 1/4th that of France, 1/16th that of Italy, 1/26th that of the United States etc.

All in a country where guns are banned.

I do agree with one point, however - where you have considerable respect for another, you have a reduced murder rate (guns or no guns).

would you say that if america outlawed guns, our murder rate would drop to yours? would you say there are no other variables influencing murder rates? the small city I was born in has guns and I gaurantee you that our murder rate was lower than yours. perhaps if the uk had as many guns as my town did...you would have gun rates as low as that of Oneonta, AL!

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Post #: 57

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 4:11:19 PM

bestbabync

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guns do not kill people.....people kill people.....for instance the VA Tech murder......the guy cut her head off!...should we ban knives?

http://www.vtnews.vt.edu/story.php?relyear=2009&itemno=40

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Post #: 58

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 4:12:11 PM

KaineD

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I mean, Dunblane happened in 1996. And I don't believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that there has ever been a major school shooting in the UK since. Which does show the benefit of better gun control.

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Post #: 59

RE: britain wants guns back - 1/22/2009 4:14:56 PM

KaineD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

You're missing a pertinent point.

England has one of the lowest murder rates in the developed world.

If memory serves: 1/8th that of Scotland; 1/4th that of France, 1/16th that of Italy, 1/26th that of the United States etc.

All in a country where guns are banned.

I do agree with one point, however - where you have considerable respect for another, you have a reduced murder rate (guns or no guns).

would you say that if america outlawed guns, our murder rate would drop to yours? would you say there are no other variables influencing murder rates? the small city I was born in has guns and I gaurantee you that our murder rate was lower than yours. perhaps if the uk had as many guns as my town did...you would have gun rates as low as that of Oneonta, AL!

There are certainly other variables. High crime tends to happen where there is more poverty, for example.

But one thing is for sure - if the US implimented more effective gun control measures, the rate of school shootings would drop. And the rate of accidental gun deaths would also drop.

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