RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what He/She wants to hear

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/11/2006 9:16:10 AM

Hallittlelolita

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Honesty is the best policy

Have a nice day

Sincerely slavegirl andie

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/12/2006 3:44:07 PM

justheather

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito
... but in reality there's a whole lot of things Doms ask of their submissives that goes way beyond ingesting bland white bread. You might be asked to ingest something significantly less palatable - and LIKE it.

What, are you saying that yeast play isnt edgy?

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/12/2006 3:51:51 PM

justheather

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

Aye and what if they ask...

"would you like to get me something to drink"

and you've been standing on your feet all day, you're tired and worn out.

Do you say "Yes Master" As that is what a good slave would do

or do you pop out with the truth and say

"my feet hurt, i'm tired, worn out and no i dont want to get you a drink"

Ok, and then you get the drink.
I see no problem with this scenario.
I retain the right to feel any way I feel.
To deny me that right would be foolish.
He retains the right to expect me to get him the drink. I can imagine that on some level it could be more pleasing to him if I said "Yes, Daddy", but I get tired and hungry and cranky and achey too.
He knew I was human when we met, after all.
And is it somehow less "submissive" when a person says "Daddy, Im tired and hungry and cranky and achey." And gets the drink anyway?
So... as long as this submissive spoke with respect, I see no problem with admitting "I dont want to". I dont have to want to do it. I dont have to like it.
What I have to do is do it.

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I want the scissors to be sharp
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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/12/2006 4:01:34 PM

RiotGirl

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Ahh, but that scenario can go with anything. And what if, just what if you truely DONT want to.. not that you will because of course you will... but that you dont want too. Isnt it about pleasing them as well? whether we're human or not, we still should want too.

i brought it up, as i am usually in that sort of situation, as it is always asked not commanded of me. "would you make me brownies at 4 am"

And i usually take both roads. 4 am brownies.... "actually i'd like to go back to sleep and go make them" (and then it becomes a command, lol)

and so on. the reason why i asked is because sometimes our feelings go against why we are here in the first place and do we suck it up, smile, and continue on or do we say what we're feeling.. being in which the answer is "no"

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/12/2006 4:06:16 PM

KatyLied

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Well, I would gladly make the brownies at 4am.

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/12/2006 4:10:34 PM

justheather

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Well, I would gladly make the brownies at 4am.

More starch play.
This should be the carb thread.
Id eat brownies off you at four am, katy.

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I want the scissors to be sharp
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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/12/2006 4:11:51 PM

KatyLied

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LOL

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/12/2006 4:13:08 PM

justheather

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

and so on. the reason why i asked is because sometimes our feelings go against why we are here in the first place and do we suck it up, smile, and continue on or do we say what we're feeling.. being in which the answer is "no"

And what Im saying is that "no" is not a feeling.

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I want the scissors to be sharp
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And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/12/2006 4:47:27 PM

girl4you2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

and so on. the reason why i asked is because sometimes our feelings go against why we are here in the first place and do we suck it up, smile, and continue on or do we say what we're feeling.. being in which the answer is "no"

And what Im saying is that "no" is not a feeling.

true; no is an answer--a type of choice, not a feeling--which we don't always have under control, only what we do with them. feelings need to be respected period.

some things in this thread kinda reminds me of dealing with munchkins. if you ask them, "do you want to take your bath?" they have every right to say, "no, i don't," and you'd best be prepared to hear that, respect it, and have a dirty kid for the night. but if instead you ask them, "would you rather take your bath now or in half an hour," you give them dignity and choice. not taking a bath with this question doesn't become the option; it's a given. not so with the first way. just thought i'd toss that in there.

honesty, integrity, dignity, self-discipline, good judgment, self-validation, self-confidence, and a sense of responsibility are all good qualities for one to have.

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/12/2006 5:21:50 PM

newflowers

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quote:

some things in this thread kinda reminds me of dealing with munchkins. if you ask them, "do you want to take your bath?" they have every right to say, "no, i don't," and you'd best be prepared to hear that, respect it, and have a dirty kid for the night. but if instead you ask them, "would you rather take your bath now or in half an hour," you give them dignity and choice. not taking a bath with this question doesn't become the option; it's a given. not so with the first way. just thought i'd toss that in there.

A good point - often times, it is the manner in which a "request" is framed. with the munchkins, unless you are prepared to hear an honest answer - which THEY always give - it is best to make sure you say what you mean. when i babysit my grandson, i *could* say, "j it's 7:00, would you liketo take a bath now?" or i could ask if he wants to do it now or later. HOWEVER, if what i really want is for him to do it now, then i should say, "J, it's time to take a bath; put away you toys while i get it ready." there is only one response to this.

Reading some of the responses in this thread, it seems as if, oftentimes, a request is made - for carbs or whatevers - and the response is a smiling, robotic one - "yes, oh great master of the moon and stars, i shall do so immediately because it maketh thou happy." However, i have the feeling that in the mind it is more like "well, damn, can't you see that i am busy" or "you know that i have worked all day and am bone tired - can't you get your own damn bread."

Now, i will grant that the later response - the one thought but not spoken, is certainly not the way to win friends and influence people, but it is far more honest than the first. it is possible to make the later response in a manner more acceptable to be sure. with the first response it seems that, over time, there will be feelings of resentment leading to all sorts of other problems in the relationship. On the surface, the problem result from requests for carbs, but, in reality, it is dishonesty on the part of of submissive and a lack of consideration on the part of the dominant partner.

However, this thread is about honesty.

there are times when even the most service -oriented submissive simply does not want to, does not feel like it - she is getting sick, she is just tired, she is busy. some days and possibly most days, the motivation is not about the immediate personal desires of the submissive, and, on those days, the dynamic of the power frame is what is most important. one does not heave an internal sigh and roll the eyes after walking away while still fulfilling the request (command) - to do so would be dishonest and disobedient.

so here is the question - on those days, those really tired, bad-day-at-work-days, the i-am-getting-sick-days, the i-am-pms-ing days - how do you as a submissive and those of you who are dominant deal with the "bread" issue? i'm going with those of you who are currently in relationaships that have a d/s dynamic or those who have some amount of long-term experience in one.

newflowers

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/12/2006 7:49:43 PM

yourMissTress

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IMO truth and honesty are never wrong. Open and honest communication are the foundation of a healthy and stable relationship. I can't respect someone that I don't trust. I can't have any kind of meaningful relationship with someone I don't respect. And I certainly won't take responsibility for their health and well being if they aren't going to be honest with me about their thoughts and desires.

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/12/2006 11:10:24 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

IMO truth and honesty are never wrong. Open and honest communication are the foundation of a healthy and stable relationship. I can't respect someone that I don't trust. I can't have any kind of meaningful relationship with someone I don't respect. And I certainly won't take responsibility for their health and well being if they aren't going to be honest with me about their thoughts and desires.

Truth and honesty are never wrong? I would be unlikely to enter into a trusting relationship someone who held to that credo.

Never is a hell of a big word.

As for the OP I can't improve on justheather's response. Unless the complaint isn't about the opportunity to be honest in the first place but it is just about not wanting to submit. Cause if you really just don't want to submit, then just don't.

Complain (respectfully and concisely and no whining) and then comply, justheather seemed to say. Makes sense to me. Your top get's your feedback as well as your submission. You get it off your chest but still get to do what you say you came here for: that submission thing again.

Hell. I'm a sadist. I might tell her to do something for strictly utilitarian reasons, maybe go get the mail. It may not occur to me that it is going to make her tired feet hurt. I sure hope she tells me it was an awful shift and she has a blister and her feet are killing her. Now in addition to getting the mail in and receiving her submission I'll also have the option of getting a sadistic kick out of it all too, one I would have missed out on if she hadn't spoken up. I might even walk out with her to watch her wince each time that blistered foot takes her weight, to watch as she hurts for me. She would not find a masochistic reward in that kind of pain on her own but once she's sure that I know she is suffering she can give that sufferring to me, as it were.

So state your view and then comply. No lack of honesty and nothing whatsoever to argue about. Everybody takes everything into account and the wheel goes around again. I'm pretty sure that's how the grownups do it.

As for that yutz who commanded: "say you like it and mean it, even if you don't" well I can tell her to lie to me and she will but I don't even know what "mean what you don't mean" means.

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/13/2006 11:20:47 AM

Sparr0wSong

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quote:

either be honest (and likely disagree, object, quarrel, argue) or comply and obey saying what words He/She wants to hear, presumably burying your honesty.

I would have to question why being honest would lead to disagreements, objections, quarrels and arguements. Unless of course, one is going out of their way to be a total pain in the ass.

Without total honesty on all sides, ANY relationship is doomed to failure.

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/13/2006 12:38:57 PM

MsIncognito

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quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2
but if instead you ask them, "would you rather take your bath now or in half an hour," you give them dignity and choice. not taking a bath with this question doesn't become the option; it's a given. not so with the first way. just thought i'd toss that in there.

With one of my munchkins what he hears is "You have half an hour before you have to start ranting about the injustices of having to bathe" LOL

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/13/2006 12:45:23 PM

MsIncognito

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
Hell. I'm a sadist. I might tell her to do something for strictly utilitarian reasons, maybe go get the mail. It may not occur to me that it is going to make her tired feet hurt. I sure hope she tells me it was an awful shift and she has a blister and her feet are killing her. Now in addition to getting the mail in and receiving her submission I'll also have the option of getting a sadistic kick out of it all too, one I would have missed out on if she hadn't spoken up. I might even walk out with her to watch her wince each time that blistered foot takes her weight, to watch as she hurts for me. She would not find a masochistic reward in that kind of pain on her own but once she's sure that I know she is suffering she can give that sufferring to me, as it were.

I think you have to be careful with these kinds of situations. Sure, it's a Master's prerogative to do that sort of thing and a slave's duty to comply but if it happens often enough the slave is likely to stop communicating things like "Man, what a shift, I have a blister that's killing me" for fear that all of ther little aches and pains are going to be exploited. Then when communication breaks down it'll be her fault too. It's a nifty little catch 22.

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/13/2006 2:21:57 PM

GlobalSkulls

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I only read the first page and I disagree. There are times white lies are acceptable.

For eg, If you getting punished and your dominant asks 'do you enjoy this? Is yes an answer you should say....

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/13/2006 3:49:46 PM

Noah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

I think you have to be careful with these kinds of situations. Sure, it's a Master's prerogative to do that sort of thing and a slave's duty to comply but if it happens often enough the slave is likely to stop communicating things like "Man, what a shift, I have a blister that's killing me" for fear that all of ther little aches and pains are going to be exploited. Then when communication breaks down it'll be her fault too. It's a nifty little catch 22.

The people I had in mind as I wrote that are people who know me, and what pleases me, and who want to please me. They are sensitive and subtle enough to know that it would be worse--for them--to conceal these sorts of things.

In the first place they would be denying me pleasure, which would be quite contrary to their own desires. Along the way they would have to deal with the question of whether they were being sneaky, which tends to bespeak lack of trust--which is a deal killer for me and for the people I choose to be with. Obviously they would have to deal with the sneakiness question without my counsel and so would be setting up an alienation from me for themselves on top of the original issue.

In the second place they would be denying themselves at least two quite distinct sorts of reward as well.

The first reward they would deny themselves is the reward inherent--for these individuals--in every act of genuine submission to me. People who want to avoid submission presumably end up with someone other than me. Anyway I don't see them coming around here.

The second reward they would forgo by failing to inform--in the way that your hypothetical suggests that they might someday--is the tension and release that comes of

A. Telling me
B. Being utterly willing--even if terrified or disgusted--to face the consequences
C. Not having to face unpleasant consequences on the occasions when I decide in all my domly majesty to let it slide or even to do something perfectly kind and wonderful instead of torture them just then.

... plus, and this is terribly important, they would miss out on ...

D. Knowing that today like every other day they have at least one person in their lives with whom they can be utterly forthcoming.

... for if they withold opportunities for pleasure from me just for the sake of their own comfort, what would it mean? It might still be the case that I am such a person (one with whom they can always be forthcoming, always be themselves) in their life, right? But they cannot in that moment rely upon me as that sort of person as they by their witholding will have injected a corrosive little stream of doubt, all on their own. My ho's 'n bitches are too sharp to fall into that kind of hole.

I'll grant that as your comment might suggest, a submissive unable to see things this clearly might find herself miserable with me. But that's really no worry as I would't have let her in in the first place. Or at minimum--if I thought shebwas capable of this kind of vision but hadn't acquired it yet--her early training would be directed at developing it and the lessons would probably be hard.

Compared to the rewards of being forthcoming with me the meager rewards of avoiding the discomfort of a blister-footed trip to the mailbox just don't weigh in very heavily, not for people of the kind and caliber I restrict myself to dealing with.

So I thank you for your thoughtful advice. I do exercise a great deal of care.

I think you did go astray at one point, and far enough so that I want to call you on it. You said:

quote:

Then when communication breaks down it'll be her fault too. It's a nifty little catch 22.

This struck me as presumptuous on your part.

Maybe some day you will meet people with whom I have dealt. When that happens you can ask them whether this would be the case; if the Catch 22 you predict obtains with me when it comes down to it. If you can make a claim like that so cavalierly, though, I suspect that so far you have not yet met and spoken to the people I train and hurt and in some cases love.

So I guess I'm advising a little caution for you too.

Please keep posting.

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/13/2006 4:09:17 PM

IceyOne

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quote:

Part of the path of discovery for a sub/slave seems to be that point in a relationship (D/s or M/s) where she struggles with what she sees as being honest and with telling her Master/Dominant what He/She wants to hear, to be the kind of sub/slave expected

First off, If he/she is struggling with being honest, then they are obviously on the wrong path of discovery I would think.
Secondly, no Master/Dominant worth anything would want their submissive/slave to not be honest with them.

quote:

The dichotomy seems to me to be a false one -- either be honest (and likely disagree, object, quarrel, argue) or comply and obey saying what words He/She wants to hear, presumably burying your honesty.

Being honest with each other often stops disagreements, objections, quarrels and arguements.

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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/13/2006 4:17:13 PM

justheather

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IceyOne

Being honest with each other often stops disagreements, objections, quarrels and arguements.

True dat.

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And paste me in that book you always carry.
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RE: Being "honest" or telling Dominant what H... - 1/14/2006 4:41:30 PM

subangel1105

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hi i am lost and looking for help. i am just starting out in the bdsm lifestyle and i want to have a threesome with my husband and another female but i am scared to get with another female. i mean i have had dreams of being with another female and get turned on by two girls going at it and stuff but i have trouble with doing something. i do not know why. can someone help me please.

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