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RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submissives?"


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RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/16/2009 1:26:00 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		I only miss the sex part. The rest of war was horrible, which is why I'd rather be a woman's housewife. 

(in reply to Reigna)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/16/2009 1:29:13 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Were you always right in your last female-led relationship also?

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- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/16/2009 1:30:18 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		Soldiers varied infinitely, and vary as to what the'll discuss, and how they deal with the things they did. It was a hundred different wars, depending on what you did as a "job", where you were, and when you were over there. It was much different than if I'd ended up as a woman's secretary at Ft. Benjamin Harrison, in IN. That's for sure. 

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/16/2009 1:33:50 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		I was never right with my last long-term girlfriend, and never won a single argument with her in 15 years. It wasn't female-led, as we think of it erotically and as a slave, but she was so domineering that it was very female led when we were together, but we weren't together every day, so I had some breathing room. 

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/16/2009 1:35:21 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I just have to say, reading this thread is as confusing as trying to argue with my ex-husband when he was drunk.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/16/2009 1:54:20 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		I never said I was "right". It's not a question of right and wrong, but of individual preference. When I discuss war, I am discussing my own experiences, so I know what I'm saying is "right" and true, since I lived through it, but other guys in different places in Vietnam, or in a different era of the war, or who had a different MOS/job, might have had different experiences. I've studied wars, however, a great deal, and have found nothing which is much different from what I've discussed and experienced, given relatively similar conditions.

This is not about war, however, so I'll leave it alone. It just got me to reminiscing, and I wanted to explain the difference between how men and women can relate to sex, and I am very confident that I am "right" about how men in the situation like I was in, relate to sex, and related to it in WWII, and Korea, and soldiers in Japan after WWII.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/16/2009 2:35:36 PM   
LdyyR


Posts: 160
Joined: 11/21/2008
Status: offline 		In all fairness, I think there are times when you may get more than you asked, especially when prying into the deepest darkest places of some people's past military service experiences. I know I have in more than one case.

I recall sitting down with a group of friends and coxing one of the only males in the group to tell us of his sexual adventures of the past. I have to say the stories of his, sexual, exploits during his miliatary run, had my skin crawling. I had to put a halt on his retelling of the past. Plus it prompted an argument. Too much exploitation of women as far as I am concerned. Of course they can't see it that way. And to some degree, I understand.

But being one of an inquisitive mind, it won't deter me from asking my friend/sometimes sub, the one I metioned in a previous posting in this thread, about the kind of crazy, sexual misdeeds he and his military brothers participated in. He served as a Marines possibly pretty close to the time the OP served in the military. I spoke with him earlier today, So it will have to wait till I'm up to the hearing about his new stockings.

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Rosa

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/16/2009 3:14:58 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		It was just a unique environment. It's hard to regard a woman as "exploited", when she comes up and puts her hand down your pants as soon as you walk into a place, and smiles erotically up at you. They would get angry when you didn't want to have sex with them. You were "Numbah one GI!" when you met, but if you didn't want to have sex, you were "Numbah 10!" or even "Numbah 10,000". If that is exploitaton,  then it's news to me.

We'd often go in for just a massage, and agreed that we weren't going to have sex, since you get sweaty, and we wanted to also go someplace for dinner, but there is no way the girl is going to let you go after just the massage. She'll do whatever it takes to get you turned on, so you'll purchase the sex. We tried it many times, and reinforced each other, but inevitably all of us would come out of there sweaty, and just shrug and grin at each other.

(in reply to LdyyR)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/16/2009 3:22:46 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Those women had to do what they were doing for survival didn't they?  Did you see any other way for them to make a living?  Or was it a choice all the way?  Were they sold into it like in other countries?  How old were they?

Forced into it and doing it from choice can look the same.  They know they must or they should do the enticing and if you aren't good at it and you have a boss... guess what.  Pimping is pimping, where ever you are, however it gets done.

So unless someone can prove to me that those women... had choice... I consider what they had to do to survive as a good chance of them being forced to do it and they wouldn't have done it unless they had to.

We can agree to disagree or we can just drop it... but when you make comment's justifying anything when it comes to a woman sex worker... and how you men just couldn't help yourselves... I get a little feather up my ass. 

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(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/16/2009 3:43:38 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		We will never agree, because you are judging it by our "civilized" values, and we didn't live by those values. That's why soldiers don't discuss the things they did in wars. They know they will be judged by "civilized" values, because people can't help it.

I don't think the girls were forced into slavery, but frankly we could have cared less. They were very young and very prettty. We didn't care about that, either. We only cared about ourselves. We didn't care that we killed them in ambushes and from helicopters with machine guns when they were running away. We didn't care if we killed them when they were unarmed, but happened to be in a free fire zone, nor did we care what their gender was, or how old they were, and couldn't tell from the air, in any event. There is nothing "civilized"  or "fair" about war. It's totally the opposite. When you do stuff like that, you could care less about the age of some girl, or her situation, when you want sex. We were fighting and dying in a war we hated, and when we wanted sex, we had sex; and that was all there was to it. We were nice to the girls, but we didn't care about them, or any Vietnamese. They didn't like us, and we didn't like them, with some exceptions. I know you can't understand that. Nobody can understand what war is like.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/16/2009 3:51:26 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		The girls certainly weren't children. I would imagine most of them were at least 18, but it's very hard to tell with Asian women. I was always attracted to Asian women. They are small and slender and often very pretty. I acquired a taste for some Asian food, too. 

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/17/2009 8:47:39 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tavane

We will never agree, because you are judging it by our "civilized" values, and we didn't live by those values. That's why soldiers don't discuss the things they did in wars. They know they will be judged by "civilized" values, because people can't help it.



I think you made Lockit's point beautifully. You really don't care now and you didn't care then. You can rationalize to yourself all you want that it was war and that's how it was, but you can't have it both ways. Either you let yourself go to the chaos of war and did things you are ashamed of, or you never were ashamed and aren't ashamed now. Which is it?


(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/17/2009 10:23:50 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tavane

We will never agree, because you are judging it by our "civilized" values, and we didn't live by those values. That's why soldiers don't discuss the things they did in wars. They know they will be judged by "civilized" values, because people can't help it.



I think you made Lockit's point beautifully. You really don't care now and you didn't care then. You can rationalize to yourself all you want that it was war and that's how it was, but you can't have it both ways. Either you let yourself go to the chaos of war and did things you are ashamed of, or you never were ashamed and aren't ashamed now. Which is it?




I think a lack of real *human empathy* is the OP's problem now. He can't see it now and has a reason for everything.  But he has no idea how his action, expectations and behaviors impact another person on a truly human level. It's just about how the world interacts with him and according to his pleasures.

Akasha


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(in reply to TNstepsout)
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RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/17/2009 10:29:27 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Akasha, I agree, and think that's part of why he is having such difficulty in finding what he is looking for.

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/18/2009 3:55:36 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		I'm not ashamed of any of the ses in the least. I loved it, and miss it. It was very appropriate for the values we lived under. I'm not ashamed of anything I did, but wish I hadn't been so cruel sometimes.  This idea of trying to wage wars by PC civilized values is just insane, and costs the lives of our soldiers. You have no idea what you are talking about, and never will, since you have never experienced war. War is about killing, merciless slaughter, torture, unfairness, brutality, cruellty, and of course sex when you can get it, and mainly trying to survive and doing anything for your buddies. They are who  you fight for, and they fight for you. To save their lives, you will do anything to anyone. That's the history of war. I don't care what people think about what soldiers do in wars. I'm only concerned with what other soldiers think. They are the only ones who know what it's like. 

(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/18/2009 4:38:08 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		So if the USA had a war... anything done to mother's, sister's daughter's of age of course, would be okay?  Okay to use their bodies and blow them up if they um... bite you too hard?  Okay to give all moral's or ethic's or human decency a break and justify any action becasue war is ugly?  Say they are hungry and need money for food and there is no work... so they sell themselves... it is okay to take advantage of this and do anything you want and claim war was hard and while we knew they would entice us... we kept going back for more and when the war is over... we'd miss it and wish to live it again?

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/19/2009 9:46:10 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		I didn't say that. These scenarios you are fabricating are not what I said, but frankly it didn't bother me that a guy blew a woman's head apart because she had a razor blade inside her and was trying to mutilate or kill him. That's war. It's a violent place, and killing is what happens. If you do something like that, then you are taking your chances. She took her chances and she lost. That's one less enemy to try to harm American soldiers. Good. I've seen videos of Iraqi kids throwing rocks at our vehicles and our soldiers can't do anything. Those could be grenades. In Vietnam, we'd have killed any kid who did that. When they know that, they won't throw any more rocks. End of problem and danger. I remember being in the back of a truck, going through a village, and this woman behind a table had her hands hidden, and was glaring at me with hatred. I leveled my M-16 at her, and glared back. If she'd have raised her hands quickly, I'd have killed her. I'm not waiting to let her try to shoot me. This is my life, and the only one I have. I know of soldiers who walked into a village, and a guy stepped on a mine, and died. A few villagers watched that, and obviously knew he was going to step on that mine. I don't have to explain what his buddies did to those villagers.

In WWII, our Marines would find dead Marines mutilated. on some islands. They never took prisoners. They'd just shoot all of the wounded withotu mercy. At one point they were offered temporaty leave from combat for prisoners, and took some prisoners. As soon as that offer expired, there were suddenly no more prisoners.

It's horrible what happens in war. It's just unreal. Guys cut off ears, and leave calling cards on corpses, and take photos of them, like they were trophy animals. I was on a Thai base, and the Thais hated the Vietnamese, and would torture them and mutilate the bodies. That really kept attacks down against the base, and saved lots of lives. We'd always trail red smoke from our gunships when we flew over the base coming back, to signify that we'd had kills. Killing was everything. The nighest value. The greatest thing you could do, which got you the most peer approval, and generated lots of laughs when you talked about the specifics later with buddies. I had a Marine friend who would laugh about how they had smelled dope, and sneaked up on some VC who were smoking dope, and laid an ambush for them with claymore mines, and just blew them to mush. I have videos of combat made from movie film, with audio, and you can hear the pilot yelling to the doorgunners, "There he is! .Kill that c--ksukker! Kill him! Kill that motherf----r! That's how we communicated in helicopters. It was pretty intense, and the language soldiers use has an F word in about ever other sentence. War is just amazing. Nobody can imagine it who hasn't experienced it.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/21/2009 11:25:46 AM   
need4femdom


Posts: 2
Joined: 2/14/2009
Status: offline 		would like to go a step back for again highlighting the service-issue.
probably there would be a greater interest for the war topic at least for some of you. what is understandable. it is definitely a topic with more relevance and to define single elements would be a greater task than usual. don't you feel reminded here the simple fact of failing to find a common understanding when collecting and discussing the variety of understandings towards specified areas that is to be found in this small group of specialists for their topic? personally i hope war conflicts always will take care in avoiding to meet me. war is not for me. that's no answer for a country, of course, but for me as an individual.

anyway. i feel competent regarding the service isssue. for more than five years i did all the household chores for a lady. at the beginning she was my love partner, but only for the first period. most of the time we were separated and she had different lovers.
as we all know there are a lot of submissive people promising to be the top choice when wanting someone to wash the dishes, clean the toilet and so on. when it comes to reality they force the dom to stay with the sub. when the sub has the impression that his suspense level is becoming dangerously low he tells the dom to make some entertainment with the whip or singing the ballad of submission or whatever. during this procedure and with just a little luck the sub gets an ejaculation and suddenly he is truly convinced having done enough work and completely being tired. the simple result is a dom spending hours just for playing games with his sub. the toilet is dirtier than before, because the both of them have used it, but the cleaning has been forgotten.
What does this mean? Does this necessarilly leads to the well known argument of this special sub not being a real sub, but a faker? i'm not convinced by this way of explaining the phenomenas. In comparison with other forms of temporarily encounters from the dom and the sub, doing houshold chores and other stuff the periods where the mentally stimulating stuff dominates your senses only can count a very few percent of the whole setting their own. cleaning a dirty bathroom sometimes needs two or three hours. for an apartement you need about ten hours per week, with doing the shopping fifteen hours. hours of work, not of playing games. in an overall rating the fun factor tends to nothing. my lady most of the time even was outside the home. the scenario of locking me into the kitchen with enough textiles to spend five hours with ironing, taking my car and going to a lover or in the bars surely sounds desirable for many guys here. I swear: the kick you can take out of the scenario itself is hardly to mention when doing a five hour ironing session. It might help when waiting for a reward when finished. It does not happen. It would not work in normal daily life. When coming home, the lady is tired and just wants to go for sleeping. she is not interested in you and wants you to go. Of course you try to be faster as possible. Your know how late it is and that she hast to stand up early. Really taking care for a household and doing the stuff that has to be done there is no other way than doing the work and nothing else. It would even become difficult for yourself to manage your time always combining the work with a session. At least when you have a regular job.
Saying the work in itself is not fun most time there must be something else that makes you doing this work. The lady itself laughs at you, telling you, she likes your mental specifics. Nobody else in the whole range of friends and people one knows is an other girl to be found that turned her ex-lover to a cleaning man. There are times the kick of humiliation works. There are times you call yourself a complete moron or you are convinced being deranged in a form you cannot control. Of course you just can leave - at least when not being locked. That ist what always happens. Service and cleaning slaves, that tends to always turn to a sad story.
Try to understand the sub. He has to solve a conflict: he wants to do the work as promised. he knows it will not be okay to just having washed the dishes. But how to bare the sad feeling of being the most stupid idiot on earth? In this situation the sub needs a supporting motivation. The dom should have prepared this. At the early beginning of the cleaning agreement.
If you want a working slave do your cleaning you have to directly find an agreement of how many hours he is willing to work per month or week. Define his responsibility regarding what has to be done in the whole. Write a certain form of contract, not a working contract, but an arrangement that defines the cleaning duties on one hand and the loss of a certain amount of money or the loss of all rights for using of embarrising pics you directly produce at the beginning. has the slave worked only 40 hours, but there is an agreement for 60 hours each month, allow him to transfer the missing 20 hours into the next month. But take care to not just transfer them - multiplicate them with the factor 3. so the 20 hours become sixty hours of work.
my lady just smiled when i was missing to much hours too often. She took the money and let me do the hours anyway. If you have the impression, the slave was sleeping and just did the work of three hours, then just accept three hours. if the work is done badly, do not whip him - provide extra hours to do the work again. As a dom avoid being forced by a sub to do anything. When its time for working, just accept the slave doing work. Or do you play funny games at your work? Caning the slave or whatelse is of course a need, but do not melt this with the work. Time to spank is time to spank. Avoid influences from the work of this session. The session is part of the whole agreement, of course. Just try to understand this as part that brings his right for being with itself. Slapping the slave needs no other reason than slapping the slave.
More or less you can summarize this in one sentence: A working slave is willing at the beginning and to bring the agreement to work the dom has the duty to define an agreement with the sub on the details of his work, especially the amount of time he has to do. Take some pics the sub definitely would not like to see posted in the internet and make it part of the contract that doing not enough working hours or stopping the work from one day to another transfers all rights on these pics to the dom. If you don't like this idea, agree on a certain amount of money or develop an other idea. Just keep in mind: this would have to hurt the sub when happening and hurt him hard, but should not lead to real danger!
With such a form of arrangement - which you for example can stop til ten days for the end of each month - the sub gets a motivation help for the long periods in which his work seems to be without any sense. This makes it easier to focus the emotional aspects away from the boring work to the idea overall - to not get the feeling of dirt removing but of the sweetness being enslaved.

(in reply to Tavane)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 2/21/2009 9:52:14 PM   
Tavane


Posts: 131
Joined: 3/10/2008
Status: offline 		Having an orgasm is like flipping a switch, whether with TG or submissive desires, for a male. I don't know how women feel, since they have that multiple orgasm capability.

I sometimes wonder if some guys who like chastity enjoy it party because it prevents them from having an orgasm, so they don't have to deal with the aftereffects and how it destroys submissive pleasure totally. I still have trouble with the concept, since nothing in life is as nice as an orgasm, and I would think women would enjoy them with their subs, with regular intercourse and giving him pleasure.

When I was younger, there was no way I could wear feminine stuff after I had an orgasm. I'd promise myself that I'd not take off the feminine stuff, but always would. Without the erotic desire, the way society views this stuff (and yourself, absent erotic pleasure) comes crashing down, and I'd get ashamed, just as I'd get ashamed after I'd had sex with my girlfriend, and had blurted out submissive fantasy stuff during sex.

As I got older, although my sex drive decreased, that changed. I had accepted myself totally, and an orgasm has no effect on what I wear, and although it would affect my TG desires for quite some time when I was  young, now I start fantasizing about submission and stuff about 10 minutes after an orgasm, which is nothing; so I'm confident I could live a totally submissive life, before, during,  and after an orgasm, without any problem insofar as being very happy with being a woman's slave; and think that once a submissive male totally accepts himself, and what he is and always will be, he will be able to have all the orgasms he wants, and love every minute of his slavery.

(in reply to need4femdom)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Do many dominants truly enjoy "service submiss... - 4/24/2009 7:03:35 AM   
subexploring


Posts: 103
Joined: 12/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

So if the USA had a war... anything done to mother's, sister's daughter's of age of course, would be okay?  Okay to use their bodies and blow them up if they um... bite you too hard?  Okay to give all moral's or ethic's or human decency a break and justify any action becasue war is ugly?  Say they are hungry and need money for food and there is no work... so they sell themselves... it is okay to take advantage of this and do anything you want and claim war was hard and while we knew they would entice us... we kept going back for more and when the war is over... we'd miss it and wish to live it again?


well, yes. This is Tavane's point. He's not saying how things *should* be, he's saying how things *are*. War is evil, and it transforms values systems completely. I really credit him for making the effort to explain things to people who do not share his experiences and are likely to judge him. I think Tavane's perspective is in some ways more humane than those who are criticizing him, because the illusion that people in war can remain moral and ethnical is one of the main justifications that allows civilians to keep supporting wars in distant countries.

BTW, I saw you made reference to John Wayne above. John Wayne dodged the draft in WWII, and never experienced war himself. He only made war movies. Which are different.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 160
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