quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

You all have a problem keeping on track. The post was about whether the cartoon in the Post was rascist? 

Ity appears that many think it is.  It appears that many white people think that it is not....Which is not surprising in that it is estimated that twenty percent of our population doubts that the holocaust ocurred.

Not one contributor to this discussion has claimed that many people don't think the cartoon is racist. Obviously, many people think it's racist. Thinking something is something does not make it what you think. People have thought that pyrite is gold, zironium is diamond, the Earth is flat, etc. The fact is, the political cartoonist did not conceive and draw, nor the NYP print the cartoon with racist intent. The post has flatly said this.
 
Therefor, the cartoon cannot be racist, no matter what other people may think, regardless of their number, or willingness to vocalize their conviction that the cartoon is racist. I believe most of the people are sincere. That does not make them correct. The people who thought the earth is flat, were either ignorant, accepting of what "everyone" knew, or had turf to protect. The negative response to the cartoon, from Rev. Al Sharpton on down, seems to share the same attributes.
 
To continue to insist this cartoon is racist, when you now know that it was not printed as such, can only indicate racist attitudes of the protestors.

I have no doubt that mastershakey and pandaguy and the guy who hypnotizes subs cannot see the connection that the cartoon could possibly be rascist.  Just a quick question, have you guys ever heard of the holocaust?

The guy who hypnotizes subs, hypnotizes anyone who wants to use hypnotism in a way that interests him. Money helps, since it is my profession. So, to use your same logic, you must be the guy who doms. ~shrugs~ 
 
Heard of the holocaust, believe the historical evidence, grieve man's inhumanity to man.

Anyways,  I believe that some posters would be better served watching star trek, or hypnotizing women so they might be persuaded to submit, or trading fictitious online stocks.

It is hard for some to stay on track...A debate requires a certain amount of intelligence and savvy in order for one to be successful.  It is truly lacking out here.

A debate requires an agreed upon topic, and adherence to documented facts and loss of credibility when caught out. The documented facts of this subject are that the NYP states the cartoon is not racist, and that some people choose to not believe them.

If one depicts Condi in a rascist manner it is wrong.  Is that so hard to grasp?

Here's a comment I was outraged about (although I did not post anything) , Sen. Joe Biden complimenting Sen. Obama as being "...clean. Clean and very articulate." And now the man is our VP. Even Limbaugh didn't let that pass!

If George Bush was black it would take on racial implications to portray him as a monkey.  What many of you have difficulty in understanding is that George Bush happens to be white and a very dumb white person at that.  He  is dumber than a monkey.

GWB dumber than a monkey... you do realize this is an ad hominem attack which indicates weakness in argument, and attempts to distract, but adds no content to a discussion? In addition... I'm sorry, but some people, regardless of race, do look like certain animals. There have been commercials, contests, and television shows of how people look like animals. It ain't race, it's just the way it is.

I hope this helps clear this matter up. 

quote:


"It was meant to mock an ineptly written federal stimulus bill.
"Period.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

My apology:

Comparing politicians to chimps is an abomination.  My sincere apologies to chimps everywhere.  You deserve much better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Don`t confuse hypnotic with putting people to sleep.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69
the outrage was so intense on the left that he was rewarded with the job as VP. ;)  

And the press never made his comments a real issue. Think the same would have occured to ms palin?

If the press made it a real issue they could have forced Obama to pick a new VP.  Remember his pick wasnt popular because most democrats wanted Hillary Clinton.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
It is a rather ridiculous notion to say that it could not be interpreted to be directed at Obama....I have seen way too many posters come out here and refer to the stimulus package as being "his."

So it can easily be interpretated that Obama is the "one black man" responsible for the stimulus bill.  If you do not have the capability to reach this as a possible conclusion then I don't know what else to say.

Possible conclusion? Mmmm.... I suppose. I guess if you stretch hard enough, you could figure out a way to decide that this is a possible conclusion.

But then again, a logical conclusion? To paraphrase you, if you seriously think this is the most logical conclusion, then I don't know what else to say to you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

What many of you have difficulty in understanding is that George Bush happens to be white and a very dumb white person at that.  He  is dumber than a monkey.

I hope this helps clear this matter up. 

      That's exactly right, DG.  And yet somehow he managed to lie, or trick the Dems into doing what he wanted time after time.  If George II was dumber than a monkey, what does that make them dumber than?

      Yeah.  I get it.  Free speech wins anyway. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterHypnotist

The intent IS the intent.All the best,
 
MH

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
Again, please stay on track.   If my conclusion is incorrect then please grace us with your interpretation?  Please explain how it is would be more probable that the monkey represents "the congress?"

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
Or some other convoluted rationale, Please explain how a chimp that removed a woman's face and eyes is humorous or has any connection to the stimulus bill?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

[
The simplest explanation makes the most sense to me. The cartoon refers to the party who wrote the stimulus bill - Obama did not write it, and in fact had very little direct input into it. So why would anyone interpret it as being about him? OK, he's black, and racist assholes have historically denigrated blacks by comparing them to monkeys, and while I agree that's a sickening, disgusting, infuriating fact no matter what race I happen to be, I don't see any logical relationship between the party who wrote the stimulus bill and Obama.

It was a stupid cartoon, and in very poor taste on a lot of levels no matter who the cartoonist was referring to, but let me turn your question back at you - given that Obama did not write the stimulus bill, why would you conclude that a cartoon about the party who did write it would be referring to Obama? Maybe you've already answered that somewhere in here and I missed it, but if you can give me a  logical answer to that, it might persuade me to change my point of view.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

So because you`ve mangaged to reason that Biden`s comments were racists/bigoted,that then excuses the Post`s bigotry?

Not.

Try again.

This thread is about the Post and what they did.

Nothing to do with what happened some other time and place, to other people over other things and how the "media" reacted,back then compared to now/whenever.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Selective memory loss?  And the press cannot force the decision on who is picked for a VP.
 
Typing in "VP Biden + racial remarks" showed 11 pages of results just on one search engine.
 
A sampling of the videos available on the subject are here -

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-us&search=biden's++

Back to the OP of this thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69
the outrage was so intense on the left that he was rewarded with the job as VP. ;)  

And the press never made his comments a real issue. Think the same would have occured to ms palin?

If the press made it a real issue they could have forced Obama to pick a new VP.  Remember his pick wasnt popular because most democrats wanted Hillary Clinton.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterHypnotist

The intent IS the intent.All the best,
 
MH

I am afaid that I know longer have the capablitly to determine "intent" as it happens in print or e-mails.

Domiguy... Your posts, and this whole fracus, is about people presuming the intent of the political cartoon author, and the NYP. Then, when the NYP clearly posts to the people who assumed the incorrect intent, No, that was not our intent, they refuse to believe the NYP. So, if, as stated, you do not have the capability of determining intent, then take their word for the mixup, and apology that they printed something that was taken in a way that they did not intend. People/organizations are misinterpreted, all the time. It is not a person's or organization's fault when they try to make ammends, and are not given the grace to do so.
 
So, to Domiguy, Owner59, hardbodysub, et al, let's try this out.
 
BAD: The cartoon is racist. Clearly that dead chimp represents President Obama. The NYP is lying when they claim anything else.
 
Better: I believe that is a racist cartoon, and I will accept nothing but a full apology, (insert any additional requirements) and retraction, regardless of what the NYP states.
 
Best: I saw it as racist, but yeah, the unlabeled, uncaricatured chimp could also represent a different cultural metaphor. I guess this one is a push, but I'm not happy.

It is hard ot discern from what been reported if the Posts' employees were disgusted and aware of the ramifications of the cartoon prior to print or not.  It would be nice to have been a fly on the wall during the discussion of whether to run the cartoon or not.  I have a feeling that the "intent" of the cartoon might take on an entirely different flavor if we were privvy to those conversations.

This is what I can tell you without doubt.  I possess somewhat of a calloused sense of humor. I have friends that are white, black, japanese, chinese, buddhists and blah blah blah...If I drew this cartoon and handed it to them and asked what do you think?  I don't believe there would be one person in the group that would not warn me of the potentiality of the racial implications.

A paper chooses to run a political cartoon that might be misinterpreted if looked at from different points of view? This is surprising? Let's see... Freedom of Speech verses Potential Implications... which should I choose... which should I choose?
 
What MasterShake69 and I are trying to get across is this. Sometimes a chimp is just a chimp, especially when it is a current event. To insist the chimp must be President Obama is racist. It is certainly a further stretch of imagination than calling or depicting Dr. Condoleeza Rice as a house Negro.

So that is how I am forced to see this. Out of my own eyes and from  the experiences of my own life as well as those that I have had the pleasure of sharing it with.

So I have to wonder  how someone can find it so easy to come to an opposing conclusion?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69
anybody can google any story's, hell that what i do all the time.  If the press on abc,nbc,cbs nightly news reports the comments.  Then the reports puts added pressure creating follow up story's for several days going on again about the words and the aftermath.  Basically milking the story creating a major issue