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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 2/28/2009 2:13:31 PM   
Truthiness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

1) if he manages to not be George Bush.
2) if he manages to not rape the US Constitution (like Bush did)
3) if he refrains from starting any more "pre-emptive wars" against countries that never attacked us.
4) basically, if he does the fucking job, unlike George Bush, who spent a full third of his time in the oval office... on vacation. (This is what we get for getting scared, and electing* a cocaine using, drunken frat boy cheerleader, instead of someone who's an actual leader... and not a cartoon of one.)

* Only elected once... for the second term. He was installed by a republican supreme court judge the first time around. You have to actually be elected, before you can be re-elected...



5.  If we start to see a turnaround in the Depression with causes from far before Bush within four years.




Fixed for accuracy.  (It's naive to blame Bush for a depression whose roots go from much farther back).

(in reply to Lorr47)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 2/28/2009 2:19:53 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

I've disowned him as my president already.  (Even going so far as to decide to not give a dime in federal taxes for the next four years.  I want nothing to do with his economic policies at this point, and if push comes to shove I'll leave the country and renounce citizenship like a few of my friends already has done.)


Oh my.

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 2/28/2009 2:38:48 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness
I've disowned him as my president already.  (Even going so far as to decide to not give a dime in federal taxes for the next four years.  I want nothing to do with his economic policies at this point, and if push comes to shove I'll leave the country and renounce citizenship like a few of my friends already has done.)



       Then I shall say the same to you, that I have said to those who took the same approach in their respect for the Bush II administration.  Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, and don't come back.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 2/28/2009 4:12:02 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

A question to both democrats and republicans.

Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a success?

By the end of his term, if he manages to significantly decrease the US's deficit, would that be enough?  Would it be a mixture of social and economic moves?  His stance on getting involved in the problems of other nations?  Say a humanitarian crisis of the likes of Darfur came up, and Obama decided to send in troops, would anti-war Democrats consider him to be just like Bush?  Is Obama already a failure in some peoples eyes?

What is your measure of success for Obama?


Excellent post/question!!!!!

1)  If he gets the deficit below 500 billion in his first 4.

2)  If he posts a surplus in the second 4.



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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 2/28/2009 4:53:35 PM   
Lorr47


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

1) if he manages to not be George Bush.
2) if he manages to not rape the US Constitution (like Bush did)
3) if he refrains from starting any more "pre-emptive wars" against countries that never attacked us.
4) basically, if he does the fucking job, unlike George Bush, who spent a full third of his time in the oval office... on vacation. (This is what we get for getting scared, and electing* a cocaine using, drunken frat boy cheerleader, instead of someone who's an actual leader... and not a cartoon of one.)

* Only elected once... for the second term. He was installed by a republican supreme court judge the first time around. You have to actually be elected, before you can be re-elected...



5.  If we start to see a turnaround in the Depression with causes from far before Bush within four years.




Fixed for accuracy.  (It's naive to blame Bush for a depression whose roots go from much farther back).


I could accept the "fix" for the time being since explicit in the "fix" is the admission that this is not Obama's depression;Obama merely inherited it.   However, the wrong headed trickle down theory and arguments for less regulation had to come from somewhere.

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 2/28/2009 4:56:34 PM >

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 2/28/2009 5:01:25 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Then I shall say the same to you, that I have said to those who took the same approach in their respect for the Bush II administration. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, and don't come back. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


It doesn't happen often, Heretic, but in this matter I'm in complete agreement with you. I hated Bush with an equal or greater passion than some here seem to hate Obama. I cringed at almost every word that came out of his mouth and was frankly, less proud to be an American because of his actions. BUT I never gave up on our country. And my goal was to wait till the next election and vote in someone who, in my opinion, would do a better job than he had.

If you are so Anti-American that an administration with which you disagree causes you to leave the country, then hasta la vista, have a nice trip and don't bother to write. We still have some patriots in this country...on both sides of the aisle.


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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 2/28/2009 7:22:03 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

I've disowned him as my president already.  (Even going so far as to decide to not give a dime in federal taxes for the next four years.  I want nothing to do with his economic policies at this point, and if push comes to shove I'll leave the country and renounce citizenship like a few of my friends already has done.)

And
quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

Fixed for accuracy.  (It's naive to blame Bush for a depression whose roots go from much farther back).

Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?? are you not blaming him for something he inherited, no matter how far it goes back?
Lucy


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 2/28/2009 8:39:52 PM   
Jeptha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

I've disowned him as my president already. (Even going so far as to decide to not give a dime in federal taxes for the next four years. I want nothing to do with his economic policies at this point, and if push comes to shove I'll leave the country and renounce citizenship like a few of my friends already has done.)

And
quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

Fixed for accuracy. (It's naive to blame Bush for a depression whose roots go from much farther back).

Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?? are you not blaming him for something he inherited, no matter how far it goes back?
Lucy

No, you're not the only one. To each his own, I guess.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/1/2009 12:34:03 AM   
corysub


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If he resigns from office and goes back to teaching and book writing and makes billions of dollars in royalties.
That would be a win win for both of us.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/1/2009 1:04:05 AM   
slaveboyforyou


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We have three branches of government.  We live in 50 different states with their own governor, legislature, and court system.   I don't give credit to the President for everything, and I don't blame them for everything either.  For all the complaining that Bush detractors do, they never want to acknowledge the stone cold fact that he couldn't have done it without Democratic Congressmen.  They could have ended the Iraq War years ago by simply cutting off funding.  The Hurricane Katrina fiasco happened under a Democratic governor and mayor.  They share a large portion of the blame for that clusterfuck, along with the idiots that decided to not heed warnings to get the hell out of town.  Our economy didn't go into the shitter because GWB willed it.  We had a Democratic Congress for many years during the Bush Administration. 

Now we have a Democratic Congress and a Democrat in the Executive's seat.  I will consider it a success if they don't use that power to go overboard with more laws, more spending, and more taxation to pay for their extravagances.  So far I don't see that happening.  It's early in the game, so I'm waiting it out and hoping.  Not much more I can do.  We do have a number of Congressional races coming up next year.  So Obama and his colleagues in the House and Senate better get on the ball.  As I've said before, voters collectively have short memories.  If things are worse in a year or two, they won't get any sympathy by blaming Bush.  Clinton didn't get any in 1994 when he tried to blame Bush's father. 

(in reply to KaineD)
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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/1/2009 1:34:07 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah


Honestly I think Obama will go down in history for all the things he TRIED to do as I do not believe he will accomplish many of them. Sadly I know this is not the Popular View of Obama, however looking at his first impressions and the slick talk I can see this to be the future, but then again I am just a man and it is already known I don't care for the president I just which he would offer the HOW'S of his plans because as of yet none of them make much sence as to how they will be carried out and STILL make things better as most of them being carried out seem to lead to things getting worse.

Steel


Interesting that we hear how we can't judge how history will view Bush after 8 years in office but apparently we can judge how history will view Obama after 5 weeks.

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/1/2009 1:43:17 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness


I've disowned him as my president already.  (Even going so far as to decide to not give a dime in federal taxes for the next four years.  I want nothing to do with his economic policies at this point, and if push comes to shove I'll leave the country and renounce citizenship like a few of my friends already has done.)


OK, see ya!

Be sure and write to let us know how things are in your new homeland.

I hear Venezuela is beautiful this time of year.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/1/2009 1:49:50 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness


(It's naive to blame Bush for a depression whose roots go from much farther back).


Undoubtedly.

We all know it was either Clinton's or Carter's fault.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/1/2009 4:31:38 AM   
KaineD


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I don't buy that at all.  I don't buy that a depression was going to happen no matter what and there was NOTHING Bush could have done to stop it.

According to this site...
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

Bush skyrocketed the debt from $5.7 trillion to $10 trillion.

Bush had eight years, and so many of his policies seemed driven to make the problem of debt worse.

Lowering taxes on the rich, invading Iraq, deregulation, etc etc.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/1/2009 5:19:57 AM   
TNstepsout


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

I don't buy that at all.  I don't buy that a depression was going to happen no matter what and there was NOTHING Bush could have done to stop it.

According to this site...
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

Bush skyrocketed the debt from $5.7 trillion to $10 trillion.

Bush had eight years, and so many of his policies seemed driven to make the problem of debt worse.

Lowering taxes on the rich, invading Iraq, deregulation, etc etc.


I agree with you completely. I think it's revisionist to even attempt to imply that Bush policies were not to blame for the meltdown of 2008. In an effort to improve an economy in the doldrums he basically gave it more and more painkillers (credit). The patient was up and running and feeling GREAT! but underneath the damage was worsening.

Responsible government doesn't always do what the people want, but does what they need. The recovery from the prior slump would have been healthier if it had been slower and due to REAL growth, not the illusion of growth. Or, once the economy was growing again, brakes were applied to slow it to a safe and realistic level. 

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/1/2009 5:25:52 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

A question to both democrats and republicans.

Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a success?


when his term(s) is over - enough said.

it's too early to judge/criticize since he barely started the task of getting this nation back on track.

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/1/2009 7:55:39 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

One of the biggest problems in this country is that I find the ravings of people who never gave President Obama a chance funny? Not the economy or Iraq or islamic terrorism or the health care crisis or any of the other actual serious issues?


Please show me where you "gave a chance" to Bush? 

Firm


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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/1/2009 8:03:30 AM   
angelic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

I've disowned him as my president already.  (Even going so far as to decide to not give a dime in federal taxes for the next four years.  I want nothing to do with his economic policies at this point, and if push comes to shove I'll leave the country and renounce citizenship like a few of my friends already has done.)


Bye-bye....

< Message edited by angelic -- 3/1/2009 8:05:19 AM >


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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/1/2009 8:03:34 AM   
FullCircle


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Bush had the potential to be a great president, at one point the whole world backed him. The way we are remembered falls upon the knife edge of the decisions we make.

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/1/2009 8:41:45 AM   
SteelofUtah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Interesting that we hear how we can't judge how history will view Bush after 8 years in office but apparently we can judge how history will view Obama after 5 weeks.



Really where do you hear that from? Not me.

I believe Bush will be judges as the President who managed to get elected even though he was a little touched in the head. Bush will most likely go down as the least liked President replacing Nixon and Franklin D. Roosevelt.

I believe Bush made MANY Mistakes in Office and most of them were televised. And I believe that Bush will go down in History as the Hill Billy President that many generations will use as a "What he did Wrong" lesson in school.

I happen to believe that Obama will go down in history for what he Tried to do and did not accomplish. As it stands I see many things that he says he will not even start until 2011 and because of that I see him using those things already in the beginning of his election as a way to get Re-Elected. I believe that even with a second term he will not be able to do many of the things he wishes to do because so far I don;t see any solid actions thought out behind his plan.

Bush may have been as responsible as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest, but he believed that what he wanted to do would work. He was just a LOT off on the details.

I make no excuses for either, what I do see that many people don't is that when the american people see the legacy that I believe he will leave behind how long do you think it will be before Dems and Libs get the chance they got now again? I mean you have a Dem Run Dem Congress. And the first thing they do is sign a stimulas bill that actually has the potential of Bankrupting America and there is no real plan on how to get this number down.

Like I said I think bush is just as irresponsible as Obama, I never once fell for the lackluster of the Man. Nor did I think Bush was the savior of the war, As many have said we have not got to vote for the best candidate just the least worst and I believe this last election we were more interested with what it would mean to elect a Black President than we were with the condition of america in the outcome. That is not to say that I think the worst person got in the White House, because of the candidates it could have been much worse but what we got to vote for was the least worse.

Steel

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