RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a success?

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 9:46:41 AM

MasterShake69

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some past history

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/how_to_get_your_hand_bitten.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 9:56:48 AM

truckinslave

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You've heard of "yellow dog democrats", I suppose. I call myself a "dead skunk republican'. My top 3 isues are the 2nd Amendment, the military, and abortion. Watching Gore try to steal Fl in 2000 was the impetus for my decision never again to vote for a dimocrat in even a local election...
Having provided you a (my) reference point, Pres Hussein will be a success if he:
1. Keeps our nation free from major terrorist attack.
2. Meets military enlistment needs.
3. Helps prevent Iran from starting a nuclear war.
4. Leaves office having met these economic criteria: deficit/GDP ratio no larger than fiscal 2008, average after-tax incomes higher than 2008, and unemployment less than 8% as of 1/20/2013.

I have very modest goals for P-Huss; he will fail on all 4, of course, depending only upon a reasonable definition of the word "helps" in #3, above.

(in reply to KaineD)

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 10:01:51 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave
"dead skunk republican'

What's amazing is that you don't seem to realise how bad that sounds

.

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 10:07:39 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

Chicago commentator Stephen Lendman writes:
Since taking office on January 20, Obama has been a caricature of a leader, a Manchurian candidate president, a front man for a criminal Wall Street - government partnership. The latest Zogby poll showed only 27% believe his stimulus will help them, and just 23% have confidence in either party.
My comment:
G. Bush tried deficit spending for 8 years. Why should Obama succeed doing the same?

Because much of Bush's deficit spending was due to tax cuts mainly benefiting the wealthy, a repeat of Reagan's trickle-down theories which Bush's own father called "voodoo economics".

Obama is going in a different direction.

I don't know if it will work but I am truly tired of hearing it labeled a failure before it has even really had a chance to be implemented.

(in reply to awmslave)

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 10:15:07 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

some past history

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/how_to_get_your_hand_bitten.html

That certainly was a wonderfully unbiased article.

Poor George.

He really would have made a helluva President if all those evil Democrats didn't talk him into doing all those horrible things.

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 1:41:05 PM

Raiikun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Because much of Bush's deficit spending was due to tax cuts mainly benefiting the wealthy, a repeat of Reagan's trickle-down theories which Bush's own father called "voodoo economics".

Obama is going in a different direction.

I don't know if it will work but I am truly tired of hearing it labeled a failure before it has even really had a chance to be implemented.

It sounds a lot like the same direction FDR tried in the Great Depression...and here's what his Secretary of the Treasury had to say about the results in 1939...

"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promise. I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started... and an enormous debt to boot."

- Henry Morgenthau

There's legitimate reason to be concerned that we're repeating the same mistake.

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 1:50:18 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

It sounds a lot like the same direction FDR tried in the Great Depression...and here's what his Secretary of the Treasury had to say about the results in 1939...

"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promise. I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started... and an enormous debt to boot."

- Henry Morgenthau

There's legitimate reason to be concerned that we're repeating the same mistake.

You know, I keep seeing this quote posted here time and again.

But other than this quote, can you tell me me what makes Henry Morgenthau noteworthy as someone we should have faith that he really had any idea what he was talking about?

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 1:55:43 PM

Raiikun

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The fact that he was there as Secretary of the Treasury? The fact that his statement was correct? (Unemployment having been at over 20% after near 8 years of the New Deal).

The fact that the depression started out as a recession similar to the 1920 recession, in which cutting taxes and reducing federal spending by Harding and Coolidge dropped unemployment from 12% to 3%?

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 2:24:48 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Because much of Bush's deficit spending was due to tax cuts mainly benefiting the wealthy, a repeat of Reagan's trickle-down theories which Bush's own father called "voodoo economics".

Obama is going in a different direction.

I don't know if it will work but I am truly tired of hearing it labeled a failure before it has even really had a chance to be implemented.

It sounds a lot like the same direction FDR tried in the Great Depression...and here's what his Secretary of the Treasury had to say about the results in 1939...

"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promise. I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started... and an enormous debt to boot."

- Henry Morgenthau

There's legitimate reason to be concerned that we're repeating the same mistake.

Ms. Hutchison's little quot mine is spreading quite widely I see. Too bad for your side that the statement was actually untrue.
http://eyeonwilliamson.org/?p=3987

(in reply to Raiikun)

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 2:41:37 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

the statement was actually untrue.

That reminds me... but I digress.

The legitimacy of that particular quote is irrelevant to the concern it raises. The market's verdict of Obama's plans speaks for itself. And the reference you gave "debunks" Morgenthau partly by noting:

In 1937, Morgenthau and other conservatives, claiming that the country’s economic crisis had ended, convinced Roosevelt to cut many New Deal programs. As a result, the country fell into another recession, and unemployment rates, after falling rapidly for several years, began rising again.

Although this is intended as an indictment, it in fact illustrates precisely the problem he was pointing out. If you prop up an economy by running the presses day and night at the Treasury, it's going to collapse like a balloon when you stop. That's pretty much where we already are. The solution isn't running them faster.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/3/2009 3:18:57 PM >

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 4:02:31 PM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

The market's verdict of Obama's plans speaks for itself.

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Right on, Kirata....The Stock Market Mavens are the one's to listen to. After all....if we had just let these geniuses run things without firm regulation and based our national policies on what was good for them and only them, we would never be in a position where our financial system was in tatters, unemployment was skyrocketing to a very dangerous level, consumer confidence was the lowest it has ever been and the housing market would be in the toilet.

Oh yeah..that's pretty much what happened, isn't it?

< Message edited by SpinnerofTales -- 3/3/2009 4:03:22 PM >

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 4:05:00 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

Right on, Kirata....The Stock Market Mavens are the one's to listen to. After all....if we had just let these geniuses run things without firm regulation, based our policies on what was good for them, we would never be in a position where our financial system was in tatters, unemployment was skyrocketing to a very dangerous level, consumer confidence was the lowest it has ever been and the housing market would be in the toilet.

Oh yeah..that's pretty much what happened, isn't it?

Try to read my posts, if you're going to respond to them? I said the market, not "stock market mavens". If the two had anything in common, we would all be rich.

K.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 4:12:07 PM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

Try to read my posts, if you're going to respond to them? I said the market, not "stock market mavens". If the two had anything in common, we would all be rich. ORIGINAL: Kirata

My position remains....pandering to the wall street numbers at the expense of all else is the reason we're in this mess in the first place. Of course there is volatility in the market right now....and of course we are experiencing a downturn. We have some pretty scary financial problems and a severe crisis of confidence.

But tell me, since you want your posts read, what actions do you think would have had a better result than the one's taken. Again, I ask you as I've asked others before for some new ideas rather than just saying how much the one's others have taken are mistakes.

(in reply to Kirata)

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 4:53:01 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

My position remains....pandering to the wall street numbers at the expense of all else is the reason we're in this mess in the first place. Of course there is volatility in the market right now....and of course we are experiencing a downturn. We have some pretty scary financial problems and a severe crisis of confidence.

You can't blame the carney. It's not the Circus' fault we had a bunch of rubes in Congress (note that I do not attribute malice where stupidity suffices) plunking our money down on getting the ball to stay in the peach basket.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

what actions do you think would have had a better result than the one's taken. Again, I ask you as I've asked others before for some new ideas rather than just saying how much the one's others have taken are mistakes.

Just my personal opinion/analysis?

The problem is debt. The root of it is the Federal Reserve system. We do not have to pay interest to the Federal Reserve on money they create out of thin air. When we print money against goods and services not yet created, we're borrowing from ourselves, borrowing against growth in GDP. It's not a "loan" from somebody else. That would free up the bucketload of money we allocate to servicing a wholly fictitious debt obligation.

Next stop taxing income that people need to cover their basic survival, and get rid of progressive disincentives to making more. Everybody gets a cost of living deduction realistically sufficient to basic needs. Only income above that level is taxable, period, and everybody kicks in the same percentage of their above cost-of-living income with no deductions except for non-elective medical expenses.

I think that would make a start on a couple of fundamentals.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/3/2009 4:56:54 PM >

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 6:53:00 PM

MasterShake69

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History repeats itself ;)

Bombing of Yugoslavia Awakens Anti-U.S. Feeling Around World By Anthony Faiola
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, May 18, 1999; Page A01 BUENOS AIRES—It's thousands of miles from Belgrade, and there's not a Serb in sight. But Gonzalo Etcheberry is passing a wall on a busy street here spray-painted with the words, "Yankee, out of the Balkans." He didn't write the slogan, but he couldn't agree more. "Your bombs in Yugoslavia are from the side of America that I can't stand," said Etcheberry, a 21-year-old medical student wearing a black Pearl Jam T-shirt. "I hate it when the U.S. plays judge and God." Such feelings are common in Argentina -- and in many other parts of the world far from the conflict over Kosovo. As the NATO air offensive against Serb-controlled Yugoslavia concludes its eighth week and such blunders as the bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade and airstrikes on Kosovo refugees grab headlines worldwide, NATO warplanes are inflicting collateral damage of another kind -- damage to its international reputation. And Uncle Sam, NATO's dominant power, is bearing the brunt of public anger. Here in Argentina, one of Washington's closest Latin American allies, a poll last week showed that 64 percent of the populace opposes the NATO air campaign. More respondents had a negative opinion of NATO than of Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Most people in the world backed the American people after 9/11,..... and still do,thankfully.

It was when bush became as bad as our enemies,that he lost credibility.

No worries now,we`re on the mend and retaking the moral high ground bush squandered and the good will that comes with holding the moral high ground.

(in reply to Owner59)

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 7:09:30 PM

MasterShake69

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People like Rush Limbaugh attacked Bush his first 2 years in office.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0211/30/rs.00.html
CNN RELIABLE SOURCES Interview With Rush Limbaugh Aired November 30, 2002 - 18:30 ET

KURTZ: As a radio talk show host, wasn't it more fun for you to beat up on Bill Clinton day after day than to defend President Bush?

LIMBAUGH: No, because I don't defend Bush. If you go back and not routinely, I was one of Bush's biggest critics the first two years because he was siding with the Democrats on every important domestic issue. Campaign finance reform, I flipped a wig. There's no reason -- that's an assault on the First Amendment. They're relying on a Supreme Court to overturn the 30 day or 60 day prior to election ban. There were no -- he let Ted Kennedy write the Education Bill. The most we've spent on education, and I can remember in a long time, and it didn't get him any good. He's practicing the new tone.

They still say critical things about him. They're not trying to help him or cooperate with him. And I was -- I was very critical of Bush, but here's the real answer of the question is actually liberals are more fun when they're out of power because that's when they get wackier and nuttier. When they're in power, they're more dangerous. They can actually implement what they're talking about. I was never happier to see Clinton go, and I wish he'd stay away.

KURTZ: He was good for your career. You had fun.

(CROSSTALK)

KURTZ: The whole media had fun...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

I’ll consider him a success if he can stop this economic train wreck we are on and turn the economy around. I can’t say I am very hopeful, however, given the tax and spend binge he seems determined to have.

Just out of curiosity, here; can you point me to any posts you've made wherein you wanted Bush to stop pissing away money on a cosmic scale? Can you point me to any posts you've made where you've been critical of the "borrow and spend" policy of the Buch administration? Can you point me to a post where you judged Bush a failure after 5 weeks in office?
I just want you to show me how "fair and balanced" you are. I want you to show me your indignation at Bush's lack of any meaningful action to prevent the meltdown we are living through now, after having held office for 8 years, as opposed to your obvious partisan "disappointment" because Obama hasn't been able to perform a miracle and reverse 8 years of the most inept, corrupt, and traitorous (and I do not use that word lightly) maladministration, in a whole 5 weeks?
If Obama walked on water, righties would be pissing and moaning about how he can't swim.
If Obana came out against Cancer, righties would come out for cancer with such inanities as "even cancer cells have a god-given right to life."
I hope he stops this useless attempt at bipartisanship and just freezes the Repubs out, just like they did to the Dems after Newt the Family Values Guy Gingrich executed his "Contract on America" in 94. The fucking snake.

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 7:13:31 PM

MasterShake69

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you might wnat to add getting the stock market back up to the same level it was on election day 2008 ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

You've heard of "yellow dog democrats", I suppose. I call myself a "dead skunk republican'. My top 3 isues are the 2nd Amendment, the military, and abortion. Watching Gore try to steal Fl in 2000 was the impetus for my decision never again to vote for a dimocrat in even a local election...
Having provided you a (my) reference point, Pres Hussein will be a success if he:
1. Keeps our nation free from major terrorist attack.
2. Meets military enlistment needs.
3. Helps prevent Iran from starting a nuclear war.
4. Leaves office having met these economic criteria: deficit/GDP ratio no larger than fiscal 2008, average after-tax incomes higher than 2008, and unemployment less than 8% as of 1/20/2013.

I have very modest goals for P-Huss; he will fail on all 4, of course, depending only upon a reasonable definition of the word "helps" in #3, above.

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 7:22:03 PM

corysub

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Henry Morganthau was a close, personal friend of FDR, his Secretary of the Treasury from 1934 to 1945, probably the record, and a highly respected figure in the world of finance in his day. He chaired the Bretton Woods meetings that established the International Monetary Fund and the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (World Bank).

The link below is the U.S. Treasury bio on Morganthau and might be helpful.
                                             http://www.ustreas.gov/education/history/secretaries/hmorgenthaujr.shtml

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 8:33:27 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

Henry Morganthau was a close, personal friend of FDR, his Secretary of the Treasury from 1934 to 1945, probably the record, and a highly respected figure in the world of finance in his day. He chaired the Bretton Woods meetings that established the International Monetary Fund and the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (World Bank).

The link below is the U.S. Treasury bio on Morganthau and might be helpful.
                                            http://www.ustreas.gov/education/history/secretaries/hmorgenthaujr.shtml

Are you claiming the widely quoted statement was factually accurate?

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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/4/2009 11:36:58 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

you might wnat to add getting the stock market back up to the same level it was on election day 2008 ;)

Yeah really, and that isn't going to happen by inflicting more taxes on business.

Check this out.

K.

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