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RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/2/2009 7:19:53 PM   
MasterShake69


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I remember many times in 2000 bush trying to reach across the isle to democrats only to have it ignored.


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

One of the biggest problems in this country is that I find the ravings of people who never gave President Obama a chance funny? Not the economy or Iraq or islamic terrorism or the health care crisis or any of the other actual serious issues?


Please show me where you "gave a chance" to Bush? 

Firm


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/2/2009 7:23:23 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


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I'll consider obama a success if I can have my own helicopter, free steak for life, a castle designed by frank lloyd wright in the middle of nowhere, and a clone or 4 of anne hathaway. Oh and if the country stays in one piece and we as fellow americans don't tear it apart with petty diffferences. 

_____________________________

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“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”

Genghis Khan

(in reply to MasterShake69)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/2/2009 7:25:20 PM   
MasterShake69


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richard armitage leaked ms plames name.  Also it was her husband put it in whoes who book.  SO her husband hes to goto jail and richard armitage.
yes Obama might get out of iraq after dec 31 2011.  depending on the situation on the ground.  so very diffrent then bush right ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I would consider Obama a success if he doesn`t torture anyone,gets us out of Iraq and/or gets to the bottom of who leaked Valery Plame`s name and puts the bastards in jail.

Anything else good would be gravy.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/2/2009 7:26:36 PM   
awmslave


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quote:

I already concider him a success.

Hell anything would be a success compared to the retarded monkey we just had in office. ~ little alone how he is cleaning out things, and making changes.

He inherited a huge cluster fuck called the US. He has already made positive changes.

Chicago commentator Stephen Lendman writes:
Since taking office on January 20, Obama has been a caricature of a leader, a Manchurian candidate president, a front man for a criminal Wall Street - government partnership. The latest Zogby poll showed only 27% believe his stimulus will help them, and just 23% have confidence in either party.
My comment:
G. Bush  tried deficit spending for 8 years. Why should Obama succeed doing the same?


(in reply to MasterShake69)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/2/2009 7:34:04 PM   
MasterShake69


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the areas i feared obama the most was the war on terror but he isn't totally clueless.  he's basically following bush with that and also with wiretaps.  So im happy because the US should be safe during Obamas 4 years in office.  Now we have to see what happens with Iran.  Will Obama outsource it and let Israel handle the situation???
Lets say use the old plausible deniability excuse.  Say we brought home most of our air to interceptors and we couldn't respond to Israel's bombers flight over Iraq ;)


I didnt expect it to be just domestic policy that i have a big issue with Obama.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

sounds like some did when bush first took office in early 2001 ;)
ORIGINAL: MasterShake69


Some may have. I personally stuck with the country..spoke out despite those voice who called me unamerican and tried to effect change. That's being an American.



(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/2/2009 7:37:31 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

actually it was increasing spending that caused bush's deficits
revenues increased under bush's tax cuts...just spending increased to much and wiped them out

Revenues began increasing right at the time Bush started borrowing billions from China to pump into the military-industrial complex so he could start his invasion of Iraq at the end of March 2003.  All that money pumped into the economy pulled the US out of the 9/11 recession. The tax cuts had nothing to do with it.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to MasterShake69)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/2/2009 7:46:27 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

I remember many times in 2000 bush trying to reach across the isle to democrats only to have it ignored.

Hahahaha right.
"Go fuck yourselves." Darth Cheney to the Dems in Congress.

That's a phenomenal memory you have. Bush 43 wasn't sworn in until January 20, 2001. Hahahahaha


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to MasterShake69)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/2/2009 8:51:48 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

I remember many times in 2000 bush trying to reach across the isle to democrats only to have it ignored.

You do? How intriguing. Would you care to document a single time in 2000 when he did so?

(in reply to MasterShake69)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/2/2009 9:44:49 PM   
Marc2b


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I’ll consider him a success if he can stop this economic train wreck we are on and turn the economy around.  I can’t say I am very hopeful, however, given the tax and spend binge he seems determined to have.

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to MasterShake69)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/2/2009 10:10:36 PM   
Owner59


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Most people in the world backed the American people after 9/11,..... and still do,thankfully.

It was when bush became as bad as our enemies,that he lost credibility.

No worries now,we`re on the mend and retaking the moral high ground bush squandered and the good will that comes with holding the moral high ground.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to MasterShake69)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 5:08:08 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

I’ll consider him a success if he can stop this economic train wreck we are on and turn the economy around.  I can’t say I am very hopeful, however, given the tax and spend binge he seems determined to have.
Just out of curiosity, here; can you point me to any posts you've made wherein you wanted Bush to stop pissing away money on a cosmic scale? Can you point me to any posts you've made where you've been critical of the "borrow and spend" policy of the Buch administration? Can you point me to a post where you judged Bush a failure after 5 weeks in office?
I just want you to show me how "fair and balanced" you are. I want you to show me your indignation at Bush's lack of any meaningful action to prevent the meltdown we are living through now, after having held office for 8 years, as opposed to your obvious partisan "disappointment" because Obama hasn't been able to perform a miracle and reverse 8 years of the most inept, corrupt, and traitorous (and I do not use that word lightly) maladministration, in a whole 5 weeks?
If Obama walked on water, righties would be pissing and moaning about how he can't swim.
If Obana came out against Cancer, righties would come out for cancer with such inanities as "even cancer cells have a god-given right to life."
I hope he stops this useless attempt at bipartisanship and just freezes the Repubs out, just like they did to the Dems after Newt the Family Values Guy Gingrich executed his "Contract on America" in 94. The fucking snake.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 6:03:54 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

One of the biggest problems in this country is that I find the ravings of people who never gave President Obama a chance funny? Not the economy or Iraq or islamic terrorism or the health care crisis or any of the other actual serious issues?


Please show me where you "gave a chance" to Bush? 

Firm


Never did and never claimed I did. I also never claimed that any rightie finding my dislike of GWB funny was a national crisis.


An honest answer! 

Why, then, do you rage at people who don't seem to give Obama a "chance"?

What is it called, when we demand a type of behavior that we ourselves aren't willing to follow?

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 6:18:10 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

One of the biggest problems in this country is that I find the ravings of people who never gave President Obama a chance funny? Not the economy or Iraq or islamic terrorism or the health care crisis or any of the other actual serious issues?


Please show me where you "gave a chance" to Bush? 

Firm


Never did and never claimed I did. I also never claimed that any rightie finding my dislike of GWB funny was a national crisis.


An honest answer! 

Why, then, do you rage at people who don't seem to give Obama a "chance"?

What is it called, when we demand a type of behavior that we ourselves aren't willing to follow?

Firm


Care to show where I rage at anyone for not giving Obama a chance? I've corrected some lies and made fun of the more over the top stuff but rage? no.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 7:21:45 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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SoT,
quote:

The government will supply what capital is required to keep the banking system from a total meltdown. Then, just as it did when the S&L's were no longer in danger of disaster, get the hell out. By taking stock in these companies, the administration will avoid both the dangers of giving these companies a blank check (we saw how well that worked) and outright nationalization. When the crises stabilizes, it will be possible to sell that stock easily and exit the situation, albeit, I hope with more prudent regulation.
Not a minor issue; when and HOW will the "crises stabilize" in the environment created by this Administration? My identified "Obama Success" points to where the financial sector is headed because unlike the S&L crisis, there is no 'exit strategy'. There is no foreclose, sell, take the loss. Here we have a government putting forth a plan that prohibits liquidation of the defaulting loans. The Administration has put legal barriers, the Bankruptcy judge arbitrarily re-setting property values, as well as social barriers by its support of ACORN's actions.

On one hand they say they want to solve the problem; while at the same time putting barriers in the way of any entity trying to do so. That's why the only logical goal for Obama's Administration is to make the financial entities fail completely and nationalize them. Undertaking this effort in this way - they can put on an image of trying to do something else when in reality - they may have given money, but only to facilitate their goal of maintaining public support.
quote:

Absorption of the USA into a 'global' ruling government? I don't think so. Frankly, I find it a refreshing change to have a president who's idea of diplomacy is not "We're America....do what we say or fuck you". Please keep in mind that the Cuban missile crisis, the closest we have come to an all out nuclear war, was solved with the judicious use of force (the blockade) and a lot of heavy duty diplomacy (allowing the Russians to save face and not admit defeat without losing our own goals in the process)....Again, I would have to ask just what you see that makes you think that the dissolution of America is Obama's goals..
Glad you "don't think so", I do - that's what it's all about. My side sees Obama getting permission from other nations to implement policy. For example; Obama's most recent Russian attempt; RUSSIA SAYS NO TO OBAMA .

However, perhaps you are unaware of President Obama's desire to support the UN's 'Global Tax' which would obligate the USA to pay out $845 BILLION to solve world hunger. It was one of his favorite projects as 'candidate Obama'. You think he's going to forget about it?  GLOBAL TAX  I'm sure funding will be buried in some "emergency" spending Bill soon.

Why be a partner to a failing institution? You see the same thing occurring in business. Why get involved with a failing company - why get involved with a failing nation? Negotiating from weakness just a tad better than surrendering; but you can't tell apart the results. In business - you're absorbed and the letterhead is used as scrap paper; in world events you become a historical reference.

Again, it's due to my respect for his intelligence that being a part of a 'global village' where the US retreats to a lower standard must be a goal since it's the most likely result of how the Administration has weakened our economy.
quote:

Oh..and just for the record, the stimulus bill isn't communism.
As I said in the post; you can call it anything you want - the pragmatic, most likely result is what it is; no matter what label you need to apply to rationalize your agreement to this Administration's policy.

BTW - The Cuban crises resolved itself when President Kennedy capitulated to Khrushchev's demand to remove similarly deployed missiles in Turkey. We may have not needed them due to the advent of nuclear submarines capable of submerged launch, but Kennedy used it to diffuse the situation - much to his credit.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 7:34:43 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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After Cuba, Khrushchev commented that they really were about to go nuclear and how unbelievable that concept was to him,years after the Cuban Missile crisis.

You seem disappointed ,Merc,that the crisis was resolved peacefully.

What,didn`t get your nuclear Armageddon?

Aww ,poor Merc.No Apocalypse,sorry.

You almost had WW III with the moron you voted for,twice.

Sorry again..... maybe next time.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/3/2009 7:36:04 AM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 7:49:58 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

After Cuba, Khrushchev commented that they really were about to go nuclear and how unbelievable that concept was to him,years after the Cuban Missile crisis.

You seem disappointed ,Merc,that the crisis was resolved peacefully.

What,didn`t get your nuclear Armageddon?

Aww ,poor Merc.No Apocalypse,sorry.

You almost had WW III with the moron you voted for,twice.Sorry again..... maybe next time.
Wow - I appreciate you wanting to know my personal history, but all the way to 1962?

Okay - you got me! I admit I was naive at the time about the negotiations between Russia and the US. I learned what I know, and base my opinion on information garnered way after the fact. Perhaps I wanted Armageddon, I honestly don't remember. Maybe it had something to do with the fact I was 6, accounting for your   . Thanks for giving me credit for knowing what Armageddon was at that age - I WAS a precocious child.

Well - 59, we're on our way to Armageddon in one form or another with this Administration, that, to you, has papal infallibility. Happy? You got that from my post? To be perfectly clear - NO I'm NOT happy to see what's happening to this country by this Administration. I'm not happy, nor pleased; and won't be even when my expectations prove accurate.

No - I'll leave you to represent a false sense of security and serenity.

Someday - you'll be able to focus on the present instead of President Bush. Counseling perhaps?

Would you have anything to post if personal attacks were prohibited? I know - another question you won't answer.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 9:24:03 AM   
Marc2b


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Ya know, this is why I’ve been toning down my participation in political discussions as of late.  You make a comment and some narrow minded ideologue blows a gasket and starts ranting about things you never even said.

quote:

Just out of curiosity, here; can you point me to any posts you've made wherein you wanted Bush to stop pissing away money on a cosmic scale? Can you point me to any posts you've made where you've been critical of the "borrow and spend" policy of the Bush administration?


How about the “Under what circumstances would you consider Obama?” a success thread?  Post number 69 (sixty-nine… heh, heh… heh, heh) where I describe the current situation as an economic as a train wreck.

quote:

Can you point me to a post where you judged Bush a failure after 5 weeks in office?
I just want you to show me how "fair and balanced" you are. I want you to show me your indignation at Bush's lack of any meaningful action to prevent the meltdown we are living through now, after having held office for 8 years, as opposed to your obvious partisan "disappointment" because Obama hasn't been able to perform a miracle and reverse 8 years of the most inept, corrupt, and traitorous (and I do not use that word lightly) maladministration, in a whole 5 weeks?


Can you point me to a post where I judge President Obama a failure after five weeks in office?  I have doubts that his methods will produce a long term recovery, that is not the same as judging the man a failure.  You don’t consider a football team to be a success before they played the first game of the season, but expressing doubt that they can win the Superbowl doesn’t automatically mean (except in the mind of ideologues) you’re judging them failures.  My “obvious partisan disappointment” exists only in your mind.  Stop seeing the world in black and white.  The world is gray and not everything and everyone falls neatly into your Us versus Them paradigm. 

quote:

If Obama walked on water, righties would be pissing and moaning about how he can't swim.
If Obana came out against Cancer, righties would come out for cancer with such inanities as "even cancer cells have a god-given right to life."


And this has anything to do with me, how?  Oh… wait!  I know!  I don’t toe the leftwing party line.  Therefore, in your fevered, narrow, ideological, mind I must be a rightie!  Sigh.

Neighbor you are tedious.  Drink some wine ere you go.

Apologies to Shakespeare.   

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 9:36:42 AM   
MasterShake69


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most of the weapons we used in the war in IRAQ were made during the cold war.  With the exception of Unmanned drones what other major weapon was created and widely during this conflict???  The greatest cost for the military has been and always will be manpower.  Everything related to keeping that solder in the field costs a ton of $$$$$$.  That was why Donald Rumsfeld wanted it to have very few troops used to invade and hold Iraq. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

actually it was increasing spending that caused bush's deficits
revenues increased under bush's tax cuts...just spending increased to much and wiped them out

Revenues began increasing right at the time Bush started borrowing billions from China to pump into the military-industrial complex so he could start his invasion of Iraq at the end of March 2003.  All that money pumped into the economy pulled the US out of the 9/11 recession. The tax cuts had nothing to do with it.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 9:38:37 AM   
MasterShake69


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well you could have looked i said in this thread both 2001 and also 2000.  You can view my post saying 2001 as a typo or my post saying 2000 as a typo ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

I remember many times in 2000 bush trying to reach across the isle to democrats only to have it ignored.

Hahahaha right.
"Go fuck yourselves." Darth Cheney to the Dems in Congress.

That's a phenomenal memory you have. Bush 43 wasn't sworn in until January 20, 2001. Hahahahaha


(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Under what circumstances would you consider Obama a... - 3/3/2009 9:42:24 AM   
MasterShake69


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Joined: 11/30/2005
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you might want to look at post 57.  Did i make a typo then when i said 2001 ;)
or did i make a typo when i said 2000 ;)
funny how you liberals ignored my point and went after the typo.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

I remember many times in 2000 bush trying to reach across the isle to democrats only to have it ignored.

You do? How intriguing. Would you care to document a single time in 2000 when he did so?

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 80
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