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RE: Unruely slave - 4/8/2009 11:01:26 AM

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quote:

Oh, and the threat to take her collar away was not an idle threat. At the time I said it I fully intended to do it. I changed my mind based on her emotional reaction which convinced me that, at least to some extent, she is still committed to being my slave. However, if things don't change in the next couple months, she is going to loose her collar.

In my opinion, so basically you threatened, and she freaked out, and you have yet to follow through. You have been from what you are saying threatening and utilizing different consequences and she is freaking out and still not doing what you tell her too. While you may think its not an idle threat, it is. What i am saying especially with what you have said about this girl -- talking doesn't DO anything, threatening doesn't. So don't tell her you are going to do it -- DO IT, if that is what you intend. Her behavior shouldn't be contigent upon whether you are threatening to remove her collar, the DYNAMIC should motivate her behavior.

If her focus is your collar and not the dynamic, all you are doing is the same thing you have been doing, shaking a finger saying girl you better shape up only this time around you have a different consequence.

Good luck in your relationship, sometimes its not easy trying to decipher if a girl costs you more than her value allows you pleasure. And then actually acting upon such a decision of her cost is more than her value to you.

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to TheDude77)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/8/2009 12:44:25 PM

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Joined: 6/22/2006
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quote:

While we have different management approaches. I am sure if I went to my boss and said I forgot to do something for 6 weeks but please take pity on me cuz Im ADHD and I used this excuse over and over and .... Im real sure I'd be job hunting. Results not excuses are what's expected. If you want to baby a 17 year old rock on. But that is just not how it is in the "real world" Which is what I hope you are preparing your child for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

hey ya bad.

Great nick. You really don't know the situation and nor am I gonna bore everyone with the details... but you really shouldn't comment on things you know nothing about. You see I too have ADHD you can use that as a 'excuse' or you can work harder at focusing on the task at hand.

BadOne

Hello there...and um - You seem to have no problem commenting on the way i chose to raise my son - and You do not know anything other than i have told here, either...smiles...i think i will rather send You a mail on the other side - rather than to bore the board with my private stuff...chuckles...but just to say it - what i AM doing is to prepare him for real life...and this is actually working! (i did not "invent" this agreement control - a man who has done years and years of research has developed it - and it has been used on may kids/young adults with great success)...at work - as an adult - things will be different - but i am glad You seem to handle it, and i am sure at a great cost at times....ADHD is not just one single thing....so many varities to it - mild or harsh...so how we deal with it - is up to each and every one of us, i guess? *smiles*...

_____________________________

.Forgiveness is the fragrance a flower leaves in the air after being crushed underfoot.

(in reply to SailingBum)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/8/2009 2:54:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheDude77

I'm not really sure what I need to do to help her, but I know something needs to change.

And what if that something is you?

If you believe (as others do) that because of her ADD or other issues she can't remember to organize the CDs for 2 months, nor remember to vacuum for 6 weeks, you must let it go. Give her and her therapist the task of figuring out how to help her become as high functioning as possible.

If she is not so mentally impaired, but is instead not completing the tasks for another reason, then the problem, beyond the first, I don't know...(week? first 3 reminders? first punishment?)...I think, then, the fix will come from you.

You're lecturing, reminding, threatening and vacuuming and she's reading Harry Potter.

[Edit for ty-po]

< Message edited by subtee -- 4/8/2009 3:00:36 PM >

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Don't believe everything you think...

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RE: Unruely slave - 4/8/2009 4:36:37 PM

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Joined: 4/6/2009
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quote:

If you believe (as others do) that because of her ADD or other issues she can't remember to organize the CDs for 2 months, nor remember to vacuum for 6 weeks, you must let it go. Give her and her therapist the task of figuring out how to help her become as high functioning as possible.

If a person is born blind and so can't get a driver's license do you give them a job as a taxi driver because being blind isn't their fault?

If because of her medical/psychological problems she is incapable of fulfilling the role of being a slave than wouldn't it be appropriate to not put her in the position where she is constantly trying and failing in that role?

(in reply to subtee)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/8/2009 4:58:47 PM

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Joined: 12/25/2008
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dude, if you want to get rit of her, just get rit of her. Stop looking for excuses. Stop looking for justification. Stop looking for other people to pet you on the head and tell you it's okay. Be a man for once in this relationship grow a pair and do what you want to do instead of letting this slave rule your live and lead you around by the testicles.

< Message edited by Aissha -- 4/8/2009 5:01:22 PM >

(in reply to TheDude77)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/8/2009 5:13:53 PM

Posts: 131
Status: offline

Hi,

Honestly, why don't you just bring her over to the CD's and maybe tie her there on a leash, and tell her she cannot get up until they are organized. Same with the vacuum cleaner, tie her to it or something. Geeze, is it really that big of a deal?

I don't think her forgetting things should be that big of a problem, you just need to deal with her in perhaps a little different way then just saying, "I want this done". I mean really, if she is caring and loving, etc... then God, man, step up to the plate and find a way to Master her... if she is wonderful and caring, and obviously tries to serve you by making you coffee, etc. Maybe she needs a routine... and the reason why she remembers to make you coffee is because she has a routine in the morning. I mean really, men want to own slaves and aren't willing to put any thought or effort into it on their part and then cry 'she's a terrible slave'.

If the only way you can figure out how to 'Master' her is to either beat her, or release her... then YOU are a sucky Master (most would say you're not a 'Master' at all actually) and you have no business trying to own a slave since you obviously lack everything it takes to be a slave owner.

(Just my humble opinion, of course)

~sgs

< Message edited by sweetgirlseeks -- 4/8/2009 5:19:25 PM >

(in reply to Aissha)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/8/2009 5:18:52 PM

Posts: 523
Joined: 7/30/2008
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quote:

he does have adult attention deficit disorder, as well as bi-polar disorder. She is getting professional medical treatment for both of these. Which is really the only reason why I've tolerated this as long as I have. Her therapist suggested using lists last year, and we've been doing it ever since. I send her emails that consist of lists of things and specific deadlines by which I want them done.

Corporal punishment simply isn't an option. I will not beat my girl, even if part of me does think she really needs it. I'm not really sure what I need to do to help her, but I know something needs to change.

Oh, and the threat to take her collar away was not an idle threat. At the time I said it I fully intended to do it. I changed my mind based on her emotional reaction which convinced me that, at least to some extent, she is still committed to being my slave. However, if things don't change in the next couple months, she is going to loose her collar.

OK well this explains a lot. I provide ABA (Applied Behavior Analysis) therapy to autistic kids. Not the same thing as ADHD and bipolar, but many of the kids I treat have multiple things going on. One of the main things I work on is attending skills because it is something that almost all my clients have a hard time with. My cases are severe- like they do not even look at you when you call their name. But there is quite an array. Your girl's problem is that she is not able to process and organize the information and keep herself on task. You are quite correct to avoid corporal punishment. When we provide ABA services, we do not punish anything. We set up repeat trials of skills we want mastered and we positively reinforce every correct response. Eventually, as the skill is learned, we stop reinforcing for that response and gradually bump up the requirements, this leads to gradual improvement. We respond as neutrally as possible to incorrect responses, by helping them to get it right and saying "that's doing..x" To get rid of unwanted behavior, we do what is called an "extinction" process- we do not respond to that behavior. At first you may get what is called an "extinction burst" which is when the person realizes that what used to work is no longer working, so they do it more (like repeatedly pushing a button on a machine that used to give candy and suddenly isn't). Once they realize it still isn't working, the behavior disappears. The problem with punishment is that it is attention. There have even been studies in which they found people actually learned how to do something they were being punished for! In any case, I agree with what many, including her therapist, have suggested, which is having a list. Even the gold star method, as kingergarten as it sounds, is a good idea. But I would have a reward that she is working towards- so many gold stars means she can get .... you will have to figure out that part with her because it should be something she really wants. Keep goals small and achievable. Start where you know she can succeed already and progress incrementally from there. What can she already do? Start there and figure out how to build a bridge from there to what the hardest thing is for her. As you have a therapist already, they can help you with this part if you like. I wouldn't use the collar as a threat... it will make her feel insecure about your relationship. And she is more likely to want to please you and work with you if she feels her value to you isn't based on her abilities.
I hope this is in someway helpful. Sorry if it is a bit technical. If you want to email me, feel free.

anna

(in reply to TheDude77)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/8/2009 5:31:19 PM

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Why on earth did you threaten to remove her collar? Instead of such a drastic solution, just remove it for three days. At the end of that time, have a talk with her. But never go nuclear unless it's your only remaining option.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to AnnaOfAramis)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/8/2009 5:39:56 PM

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Joined: 7/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheDude77

quote:

If you believe (as others do) that because of her ADD or other issues she can't remember to organize the CDs for 2 months, nor remember to vacuum for 6 weeks, you must let it go. Give her and her therapist the task of figuring out how to help her become as high functioning as possible.

If a person is born blind and so can't get a driver's license do you give them a job as a taxi driver because being blind isn't their fault?

If because of her medical/psychological problems she is incapable of fulfilling the role of being a slave than wouldn't it be appropriate to not put her in the position where she is constantly trying and failing in that role?

No, I agree it wouldn't be appropriate if she is incapable of being your slave. You didn't mention the ADD or bipolar in your OP and I misconstrued and thought you were wanting to help her in order to keep her.

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to TheDude77)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/8/2009 5:41:39 PM

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Joined: 10/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheDude77

I've got a rather serious problem with my slave girl. When I tell her to do something, but it's not a "right now" situation, she almost never does what she is told. Example: I recently told her to label a bunch of CDs I'd burned and it took 2 months of reminders and being punished to finally get it done. And our living room went almost 6 weeks without getting vacumed at one point.

I've tried punishing her (we don't use "corporal punishment" for punishment, only play). We've had several serious conversations regarding whether this was really what she wanted or not. She swears up down and sideways that being my slave is what she wants. Recently when I threatened to take away her collar she begged me crying on her knees not to. But in the end she still doesn't do the things I tell her to do.

Her primary excuse is that she doesn't remember my instructions, or that she misunderstood me. And for quite a while we worked to address the problem from that point of view. But more than once recently we've had situations were we discussed my instructions in detail so I know she understood them. Then I gave her several reminders, and she still doesn't do as she is told. I believe she just don't consider what I'm telling her to do important.

In many ways she is a wonderful girl. Every morning when I get out of bed I know I'll have a fresh cup of coffee made just the way I want waiting for me. And she is very caring and loving. But in the end if I can't count on her to do what I tell her to, then I'm not interested in keeping her as a slave.

Dude,

First off drop the e.

Now get a grip, this girl is just another wench out there getting away with anything and everything the male will allow. Note I didn't say man. Whip her fuckin' ass; use a Gorean five blade, it is soft material that hurts like a mother-fucker yet only leaves welts that disappear by morning. Well in your case I assume they will vanish by morning.

Lucky for ishy she is an ocean away at the moment, I feel like whipping her ass simply to placate my irritations with you.

Stop facilitating her half assed actions by allowing some so called medical analysis or complying with societal soft assed conditioning to provide her an excuse to be useless. She wants and needs a man....BE THAT MAN... It isn't cruel to apply the appropriate amount of partical discipline.

Become the man of your house or live alone (your doing your own damn chores anyway), it is almost certain you will have the same trouble with any "submissive" you attempt to say is yours. It's apparent to everyone but you that you are the one here that is owned.

Dammit................ you have ruined my most Ron like buzz with your petty wench like whining.

PS, just my Gorean like opinion...

< Message edited by xBullx -- 4/8/2009 5:43:34 PM >

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to TheDude77)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/8/2009 6:27:35 PM

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Joined: 12/21/2008
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Perform a simple test. Take the collar away on a temporary basis. She can earn it back if she does as she's told.
Whether she's "ADD/ADHD" ( I mean, isn't half the population these days? Sure seems like it.. yeah right. ) or just a lazy shit, if the collar is her motivation, use it.
That way you'll know if she responds.. if not, you can get rid of her, and if she does.. you've won the battle.

(in reply to xBullx)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/8/2009 6:58:36 PM

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xBullx: First, you do realize 'Bull' is spelled without a single 'x' let alone two? I'm impressed, you managed to type all that without including a <grunt> in the whole thing (I'll just assume they were out loud)... I'm sure your methods work for you and your girl(s). But my girl requires a more delicate and civilized approach. Although I admit that I don't know what that approach is, I know that if I simply beet her into submission she'd end up in the mental hospital within a week, and I'd likely end up in prison. So I will continue to be a man by showing courage and patience in a difficult situation where weaker men would take the easy way out. A minor bit of advice: The first step to mastering someone else is mastering yourself and your own emotions. If simply reading my "wench like whining" can ruin your "Ron like buzz" or cause you to be irritated enough to want to whip your own slave, then you aren't even in control of yourself, let alone anyone else.

AnnaOfAramis: Thank you very much for your advice. It sounds all too familiar as it is basically what her therapist says. It is also amazingly difficult to do with a grown woman. A person who has responsibilities, more than as a slave, but as a wife and mother. I can not simply ignore her negitive behavior, not when it can have effects that go so far beyond her. But at the same time you've at least made me feel better about my continued tolerance for her problems.

subtee: I do want to keep her. I'm just not sure how to do it, or if it will even be possible.

< Message edited by TheDude77 -- 4/8/2009 7:02:44 PM >

(in reply to xBullx)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/8/2009 9:48:09 PM

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As long as you continue to give excuses, they will occur. Either there is some personality flaws (either side), the punishments are not severe enough or the rewards not great enough.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to TheDude77)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/8/2009 11:33:29 PM

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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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There is no point in talking to the OP. He seems to enjoi whining and making excuses for his girl and him.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to TheDude77)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/9/2009 5:47:29 AM

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Joined: 10/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheDude77

A minor bit of advice: The first step to mastering someone else is mastering yourself and your own emotions. If simply reading my "wench like whining" can ruin your "Ron like buzz" or cause you to be irritated enough to want to whip your own slave, then you aren't even in control of yourself, let alone anyone else.

I'm not able to control myself? I find that interesting while it's you that is here complaining about not knowing what to do with your treasured princess. It's you that is unable to master your female. Do not confuse your fear to take action or your inabilities too muster mastery over your slut as a result of being civilized or in control. While I might have stated in what may or may not have been jest that I should whip my wench simply do to the irritation inspired by you is irrelevant, I don't have the problem, my wench behaves very well indeed. In fact it appears my free companion follows my lead better than your "slave, sub or whatever you call her" follows yours.

My comments weren't directed at what should really be done with your pampered flower anyway, it was about you. The responsibility to be the man is yours. I could care less how you handle the wench; it's your attitude that lit my fire.

If you didn't like my comments or advice you could have simply ignored them and went on to the next post. Responding to them demonstrates they affected you. The truth can at times be a painful experience. The GIRL is not your problem, you are your problem.

By the way, grunts and snorts can be good, forcing yourself to act all refined and delicate does not a man make. In your case it doesn’t help much in making a "slave" either, unless of course the "slave" is you. Now go vacuum the living room.

FFS Dude grab yourself by the raisins and do a little grunting yourself; you're too busy coddling and loving your spoiled pet to ever sufficiently master her. If you wanted a wife or a girlfriend you should have gotten one of those.

So thanks for your "advice" but I don't see much value in it.

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull

I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to TheDude77)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/9/2009 7:28:18 AM

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Using fast reply........ADD is no excuse, period.

I am a classic ADD case. I know it, I deal with it. I am 46almost47, I figured it out a few decades ago.

Just because your girl's brain doesn't work like yours, does not mean it's faulty or that she can use it as an excuse for not following through. Work with her to come up with a solution to deal with her forgetfulness.

I make lists, use Post-its.
Then I put them where I can see them to remind me.
Pretty damned simple.

Give her the task of coming up with a method that works for her. Give her a time frame and make her prove she is doing it. Create consequences that apply to the problem instead of a generic "I shall remove your collar!"

Example: She forgot to pay the water bill so got a threatening letter and a late fee. Your punishment...."Okayyyyy, for the next month your gonna take only cold showers!" I bet after that she would find a way to remember to pay the effing bills on time.

ADD is not an excuse, it is a condition that means the brain works differently than those that don't have it. A responsible adult finds a way to work with/around it. Make her responsible.

Then there is the issue of you.......be a grownup and learn to pick your battles wisely.

You are not mastering yourself, let alone her.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 4/9/2009 7:34:29 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to xBullx)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/9/2009 7:42:20 AM

Posts: 357
Joined: 6/22/2006
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quote:

AnnaOfAramis: Thank you very much for your advice. It sounds all too familiar as it is basically what her therapist says. It is also amazingly difficult to do with a grown woman. A person who has responsibilities, more than as a slave, but as a wife and mother. I can not simply ignore her negitive behavior, not when it can have effects that go so far beyond her. But at the same time you've at least made me feel better about my continued tolerance for her problems.

subtee: I do want to keep her. I'm just not sure how to do it, or if it will even be possible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheDude77

xBullx: ...my girl requires a more delicate and civilized approach. Although I admit that I don't know what that approach is, I know that if I simply beet her into submission she'd end up in the mental hospital within a week, and I'd likely end up in prison. So I will continue to be a man by showing courage and patience in a difficult situation where weaker men would take the easy way out. A minor bit of advice: The first step to mastering someone else is mastering yourself and your own emotions.

AnnaOfAramis: Thank you very much for your advice. It sounds all too familiar as it is basically what her therapist says. It is also amazingly difficult to do with a grown woman. A person who has responsibilities, more than as a slave, but as a wife and mother. I can not simply ignore her negitive behavior, not when it can have effects that go so far beyond her. But at the same time you've at least made me feel better about my continued tolerance for her problems.

subtee: I do want to keep her. I'm just not sure how to do it, or if it will even be possible.

***if not being able to catalogue CD's and forget to vacuum is the breaking point of your marriage - i wonder how low your threshold is...she is your wife - mother of your child - and she has a disorder she was born with, and that you obviously (or hopefully) knew about when you got to know her. Why insisting on pushing her down a road she is incapable of walking? Why not let her shine and grow in the areas she can - instead of pushing her to do things she fails over and over again - are you even aware of how much that can ruin a persons mental health??? Love her the way she is - and instead catalogue your own CD's - and help her with the housework...then the housework gets done - you get the CD's labeled, and she can serve you proudly and happily - which it seems she is doing already. she is in therapy - have You ever talked to the therapist? Gone with her to a session or two? i would think might be helpful, unless you want to hide that she is your "slave"...maybe she thinks of herself more like a loveslave - and not a Gorean (obviously) slave or the slavetype that blindly obeys and elegantly can handle anything and everything that is dished out... smiles...good luck to both her and you...not to mention the child in the middle of all of this.***

_____________________________

.Forgiveness is the fragrance a flower leaves in the air after being crushed underfoot.

(in reply to TheDude77)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/9/2009 7:44:47 AM

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Very well said.

My boy has ADD and deals with it. If I wanted him to pay attention I had to remove him from other stimulus and switch off the TV, etc... that was backed up by Post It notes as a follow=up reminder and clearly visible in a place I knew he would walk by. His mind runs faster than an uncoiling spring, but he has learned to manage his life.

Too often excuses are made - for the wrong reasons and the wrong person. The apathy that has crept into this hasn't resulted from her inability to perform those tasks, it's from the lack of good management all round. There's no worse state to be when complaining of the seeming apathy of another person than ignoring our own. Talk is very cheap.

_____________________________

The Tooth Fairy who teaches kids to sell body parts for money.

A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/9/2009 8:12:32 AM

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Joined: 6/22/2006
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Hello Miss Morrigan,

like You probably have read - my son also have ADHD - along with other things...s...ordinary "do this or so help me God" simply does not help...some of these kids/adults live in their own world - have their own pace - and threats does not help much - but instant gratification does. A little price at the end of the day works wonders for my kid - but only if he has done the chores/things on the little list. if he has not done them - no argueing or bitching from me - just no reward...and that effects only him. (one day without his beloved x-box is hell)...s...

(OP - did not mean to hi-jack the thread - sorry)

_____________________________

.Forgiveness is the fragrance a flower leaves in the air after being crushed underfoot.

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

RE: Unruely slave - 4/9/2009 8:13:42 AM

Posts: 510
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Dude,

I found out my slave has Alzheimers after months of being unable to follow through on simple tasks.

This has taken a lot of patience for me to handle as he has the sweetest heart- and what Bull said to do would have permanently damaged my slave. Beating is not a show of control when emotions are high imo. (Grunt-grunt)

However-she gets through books while many things remain undone. You have done the vacuuming.

She is not complying. I like the idea of removing her collar and also of chaining her to her task until she gets it done.

Unless: She actually has a medical condition that is severe, and your posts don't reflect this as a possibility.

I worked full time, cooked home-cooked meals, had the house clean and did tons of volunteer work, was also a tan-hawt wife and a great mom. I had neck troubles during all of this and did it anyway. One of my favorite quotes: JUST DO IT!
Now, I did this in my 20's and 30's so I could not do that now, no way-

no how!

(in reply to TheDude77)

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