Is submission that cheap ?

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

Is submission that cheap ?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> Is submission that cheap ?

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 6:01:21 AM

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

There have been a number of postings recently where a select few dominant guys give the impression that if a sub can't do this, that or the other, one should get rid of them, even if that falls within a relationship.
This surely means that submission comes before anything else and takes absolute precedence.
Its like saying 'ya know what? the woman is an amazing conversationalist, she's intelligent, deep, thoughtful, caring, kinky,loving, understanding but she can't polish my shoes right and therefore she has to go'.
When I look at these posts I can't help but shake my head at the shallowness. It gives submission no depth and appears to me that these people are just playing silly games and are not looking for anything deeper than an Gucci handbag.

Am I alone with these thoughts or do others feel like me?

_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos

Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 6:11:29 AM

cpK69

Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline

To me, it sounds like someone who knows what they want. It is okay with me, if I am unable fulfill every possible request out there, it just means, I am not suited for the one that has the requests I am unable to fulfull.
Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to allthatjaz)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 6:13:52 AM

pinkpantherette

Posts: 14
Joined: 1/18/2009
Status: offline

Sounds like they are not dominant but domineering. Kind of like guys who claim to be "trained" because they read articles on the Internet!

(in reply to cpK69)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 6:35:23 AM

cpK69

Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpantherette

Sounds like they are not dominant but domineering. Kind of like guys who claim to be "trained" because they read articles on the Internet!

Let me rephrase,(still practicing)

Doesn't this position discount those who appreciate the 'take it or leave it' disposition?

Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 4/13/2009 6:39:08 AM >

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to pinkpantherette)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 6:37:05 AM

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

If someone's overwhelming kink is to have a slave who can win bootblacking competitions, then that's appropriate. If instead he wants a relationship with someone who loves and likes him, who sincerely enjoys being with him, then judging them on bootblacking skills is not the way to achieve the objective.

Not to mention that people change. What if the great bootblacker breaks her hand and can't do that anymore? Kicking them to the curb for something that they didn't plan or know about ahead of time seems pretty nasty.

The important thing here is whether these guys want a full relationship or just a kink based one. Because if I suddenly broke my leg and couldn't play tennis anymore, I wouldn't expect my tennis partner to stop playing also. Especially if we weren't friends but only people who only had in common being evenly matched at tennis.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 4/13/2009 6:39:40 AM >

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to pinkpantherette)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 6:48:56 AM

Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
Status: offline

If they are looking for a sub or slave and that person is not one then yes they are not compatable. It does not matter how well you can carry on an conversation, kinky you are, intelligent, deep, thoughtful or caring if you are not a slave or sub then it is not going to work for me. I know what I want and what makes me happy and I will not settle for something less because in the end it is going to fall apart because I am not having my needs meet.

Mike

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 7:11:13 AM

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

What's the issue? I expect certain things from her. Both in and out of bed. And bring an amazing conversationalist happens to be one of them. Intelligence, a sense of humor, being reasonably attractive, etc. And in the bedroom, I want spanking and sex. More is better, but I need those as a minimum.

I wear sneakers. If my sub tries to polish them, there will be consequences (but I won't kick her to the curb).

There are two times when a sub can refuse to do things. One is before a relationship starts, and if she won't do any of my musts - it won't happen. The other is when the relationship has started, and I will discuss things with her, but we may have to find a way out. I already stayed in a vanilla marriage way longer than I should have - I don't want to be miserable again.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to SirMIkeSD)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 7:20:16 AM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpantherette

Sounds like they are not dominant but domineering. Kind of like guys who claim to be "trained" because they read articles on the Internet!

This may perhaps be true if the relationship is based on bf/gf type or are a married couple first. However, if the Dominant and especially if a Master, who is already married to another (In my case to a Domme) or, has no intention of allowing a relationship to move past that of a collar, and has made this clear from the onset, I fail to see any reason if the sub/slave can or will not follow his requirements, to keep her. It is that simple just as if an employee fails to follow instructions or expectations, that employee can and should expect to be either retrained, reviewed or simply replaced by someone who is more suited. This is why I prefer all Dominants to be up front with their expectations and any changes as soon as the Dominant decides to implement them. Whilst it is indeed sad to see relationships breaking up for any reason both parties need to be open about expectations and only go ahead if the individual expectations or requirements is agreed to by both. If you ignore obvious differences then you must wear the consequences. Just my view and how I do things in and out of the kink lifestyles. I know what I want and will not settle for anything less or second best. As I am prone to say: "Better an empty collar than collar the wrong person".

< Message edited by IronBear -- 4/13/2009 7:22:37 AM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to pinkpantherette)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 7:51:10 AM

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

Ok.. some great and well thought out points here so thanks for taking the time.
Can I just say that I am not talking vanilla. I am talking within the ranks of a BDSM / D/s relationship.

Speaking with my dominant shoes on I would have to say that if human emotions such as love was to encroach within our relationship, then the failure of a task would never be a big deal. Oh I may let them think its a big deal at the time and I would insist they practice till they got things right but I could not let go of them simply because they got something silly wrong. I would of embraced them and they would mean far more to me than just a commodity that I could wash away with the dirty dish water.

Speaking from my submissive side I know absolutely that my man would come down on me like a ton of bricks for getting something wrong but at the same time he would love me none the less. It would not hamper or harm our relationship because its far bigger and far wider than just my submission.

I can understand those that just take a submissive as a commodity and that never intend for it to be anything more than that. I put my hand up and confess that I have done that myself in the past.

This thread is not about those that just take on a sub a couple of times a week or whenever the need fits, but about those that want and need a partner in there lives.

_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos

Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 7:51:52 AM

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

I am lucky that both R. and S. accept that I am not perfect. However, they do expect that I will do my best to serve them in the way they need/require.
If my best does not meet their standards they are willing to be patient while I work on improving my skill level. That is the key, however, that I strive to make progress.
If I had to live in constant fear that my imperfections would get me ‘kicked to the curb’ .I would walk to the curb myself and drive away.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to allthatjaz)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 8:06:33 AM

cpK69

Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

This thread is not about those that just take on a sub a couple of times a week or whenever the need fits, but about those that want and need a partner in there lives.

I think I am confused as to what being a 'partner' means.

Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to allthatjaz)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 8:31:22 AM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I can understand those that just take a submissive as a commodity and that never intend for it to be anything more than that. I put my hand up and confess that I have done that myself in the past.

This thread is not about those that just take on a sub a couple of times a week or whenever the need fits, but about those that want and need a partner in there lives.

Actually I was not thinking about submissives or those taking them a couple of times a week but from a Master's perspective where a slave is property no matter how much you love them or they love you. Such slaves will often say how much they love the feeling of being owned and seen as property. Possibly still a lot of Gorean views and ways are part of me. But that's how it is..

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to allthatjaz)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 8:31:23 AM

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

This thread is not about those that just take on a sub a couple of times a week or whenever the need fits, but about those that want and need a partner in there lives.

I think I am confused as to what being a 'partner' means.

Kim

Well in my eyes a partner is about being everything.

_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos

Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to cpK69)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 8:33:25 AM

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

I've been seeing dump them given horrifyingly frequently as advice and by more than just dominant guys.

(in reply to allthatjaz)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 8:43:00 AM

Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
Status: offline

If I wanted a partner that is what they would be. A sub or slave while I may love is not a partner.

Mike

(in reply to GotSteel)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 8:55:55 AM

cpK69

Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Well in my eyes a partner is about being everything.

In my eyes, Sir is ‘a god’, but I am also aware, he is a man. I do not think it would be fair of me to consider him to be “everything” He is what I need, and I am appreciative of anything he is willing to give beyond that. It feels like a partnership to me.

A thought I had toward rejection over what would, generally, be perceived as petty; isn’t there often, in those occurrences, an underlying issue?
Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to allthatjaz)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 9:14:31 AM

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

I was thinking about this thread and how to answer it.

I think that the reality, our real lives, are much more flexible. Sometimes too flexible, therefor the answers of "ditch the person!"

On one hand, if we go into a relationship with specific needs, then we sacrifice those needs, we are being dishonest. Mostly with ourselves. Ultimately a relationship that consistantly demands one person sacrifice their core self to make it work, will probably fail.

Also, from a different perspective and hinted to above, one could also ask, is dominance that cheap? If a submissive goes into a relationship knowing the requirements and boundaries the dominant party expects from them, then that should not be set aside. Something to be picked back up when convenient. Crying foul when the dominant reminds them of the expections initially laid out. The expectations they mutually agreed to.

I try to look at it from both sides, but it does come back to my own. If I have said from the beginning I expect X, I will always expect X, no excuses for lack of X, if you cannot do X then you should not consider belonging to me. And that slave/submissive agrees to that condition, knowing full well the importance of X to me, then once safely (in their mind) ensconced in my home, begins to ignore X, treat it as unimportant, then in my mind they are cheapening our agreement and my dominance.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 4/13/2009 9:16:02 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to allthatjaz)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 9:20:02 AM

Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Also, from a different perspective and hinted to above, one could also ask, is dominance that cheap? If a submissive goes into a relationship knowing the requirements and boundaries the dominant party expects from them, then that should not be set aside. Something to be picked back up when convenient. Crying foul when the dominant reminds them of the expections initially laid out. The expectations they mutually agreed to.

I try to look at it from both sides, but it does come back to my own. If I have said from the beginning I expect X, I will always expect X, no excuses for lack of X, if you cannot do X then you should not consider belonging to me. And that slave/submissive agrees to that condition, knowing full well the importance of X to me, then once safely (in their mind) ensconced in my home, begins to ignore X, treat it as unimportant, then in my mind they are cheapening our agreement and my dominance.

This is exactly what I was gonna say...it's like we're the same person.

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 9:21:18 AM

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

There have been a number of postings recently where a select few dominant guys give the impression that if a sub can't do this, that or the other, one should get rid of them, even if that falls within a relationship.
This surely means that submission comes before anything else and takes absolute precedence.
Its like saying 'ya know what? the woman is an amazing conversationalist, she's intelligent, deep, thoughtful, caring, kinky,loving, understanding but she can't polish my shoes right and therefore she has to go'.
When I look at these posts I can't help but shake my head at the shallowness. It gives submission no depth and appears to me that these people are just playing silly games and are not looking for anything deeper than an Gucci handbag.

Am I alone with these thoughts or do others feel like me?

That's rather hard to answer since you've given no specific examples. I don't particularly recall anyone suggesting kicking a submissive to the curb because they can't properly lick a boot to suit someone.

On the other hand, again since we have no specific examples... who's to say the submissive is "an amazing conversationalist, she's intelligent, deep, thoughtful, caring, kinky,loving.." all that. If she's that devoted, surely she could learn to lick a boot or what have you.

There are also those who might ask... do you consider dominance that cheaply? That it can be had by submissives regardless of disobedience or inability to serve?

As has already been said, people have needs in relationships... if those needs aren't being met they can either try to find a compromise or they can get out. Well I suppose they could stay and be miserable, but I don't generally advocate unhealthy choices. People have an amazing range of needs... for some various kinks are a need. If that needs isn't being met, they're just not going to be happy. Are you suggesting a dominant give up their happiness to give a submissive a home? When did dominants become a charity?

Personally, I don't advocate kicking anyone to the curb (dominant or submissive) over trivial things. People do need to keep their priorities in order... if a submissive can't lick a boot just so... or what ever it is... and its not an important issue to either the dominant or the relationship dynamic... then absolutely it ought to be compromised on. On the other hand if a submissive is unable to serve as expected in a number of areas, that's a different matter... sometimes two people just aren't a good match... and no matter how much you might care about them it isn't going to change the fact that you don't fit well together. Sometimes you have to care enough about someone to let them go so they can find a better match. Been there, done that. I don't view submissives as something cheaply had (well, not all of them... there are some that pretty much throw themselves out there...) nor do I view dominance as something cheaply given either (again, with some notable exceptions).

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to allthatjaz)

RE: Is submission that cheap ? - 4/13/2009 9:24:45 AM

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

shake my head at the shallowness

I understand where you are coming from, but for me, it is the shallowness I crave. I shan't write you a long tome as to the whys and wherefores, but I just do. I want it simple, I want the under house parlour maid, I have the intellectuals, the "other thing", and that isn't what I crave in a sub. It is a choice one makes, perhaps a way to keep things manageable, and it isn't all that unusual - I am not seeing Simon Cowell stumping to take over Mastermind.

I do frown with you at "getting rid of them" - I am well aware of my own predilections, and while not perfect, I'll preselect on the qualities I need or require in a sub - the selection enforced more strictly with a live-in. I am sure there are a lot of "masters" who make it up as they go along - from scratch.

To each his own, you know, and that is easy enough to achieve without being callous. Having said that, like most executives I have had to learn (as in: teach myself) to fire people, and I have found it liberating to let someone go, swiftly, in my private life, when I see they have only pretended to be that person I was looking for. Ran into a few, to be honest, who would just tell me whatever it was they thought I wanted to hear, then to just carry on as if the battle and the war had been won, and that was just this week.

Two sides to every coin...

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> Is submission that cheap ?

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.324