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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/22/2009 9:51:37 PM   
SlaveBlutarsky


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I am reasonably certain that you can be smart without being able to read at all! 
Very true, though she was referring to the fact that I'm amazingly good at conversation and very, very intelligent. And modest too.


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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/22/2009 10:15:27 PM   
littlesarbonn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveBlutarsky

Could someone please change the thread title to 'Sadists talking about Shakespeare?'

I could never get into Bill's work, pure torture for me. If I was a masochist, and someone wanted to torture me in a meaningful way, a book report on Shakespeare would surely do the trick.



I tried to change the topic to more important things like all things Gumby and Pokey, but it didn't take. I mean, I can't keep up with these Shakespeare people. Let's face it. I wrote my dissertation with green crayons.


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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/22/2009 10:37:00 PM   
littlesarbonn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveBlutarsky



It's funny, I was on a date a couple weeks ago with someone getting her PhD in some literary discipline and she said something like 'How can someone be so smart having never read a good book?'

I laughed and couldn't give her an answer. She asked me if I'd read like 50 different books, including a bunch of the classics and I had read like three. I read a lot, but fiction/literature isn't something I've ever had a huge interest in. I've got some time off in May and plan on reading about the middle ages and Turkey. That seems more interesting to me than shakepeare.



Sometimes, academics can get all stuck up on themselves. Not all, but some of them can. An example was very recently when I was presenting a paper for a synthesis, additive paper I wrote that used several communication theories, political science concepts, game theory and computer iterative processing. I was at a peace and conflict symposium, and everyone else there had either a qualitative approach that used some historical foundation or a quantitative presentation that involved crunching numbers on either surveys or logistical information of numerous international conflicts. When I presented something that wasn't just an explanation about what we already know or how to redefine what we already experience, everyone perked up because I was trying to show how to create a new theory of exploration in peace using concepts that build from ones we already know, a theoretical exploration of future behaviors. What was interesting was that both groups fell back into their own camps and offered almost no evaluative information but complained, based on only what kind of science they were used to, convinced that if science wasn't done that way, then it wasn't useful. It was the representatives from the State Department who became my biggest fans to the point where I couldn't get rid of them, but they were only there observing and weren't part of the presentation group, indicating that they were probably of the few that were actually interested in learning something new.

The point is, people like to be seen as smart, but they don't want to be shown to be lacking in anything. Instead, they'll deconstruct everything around them until they really have nothing to say. Not everyone is like that, but way too many are.

Your example resonated in me because for many years I found myself thinking that I wasn't really educated because I didn't feel myself to be well read. I was, but didn't think I was. So, I went on a personal venture to read everything that could help me in this lack of knowledge. What I discovered was that it was a great experience to learn new things, but along the way I kept running into people who really liked to hear themselves talk. In grad school for my first higher degree, I came across all sorts of people who were able to say really intelligent things that didn't mean anything. They'd use the word "normative" and I was floored because I rarely used the word. Then I started to discover these were cover words to mask the fact that they didn't really have anything new to add to the conversation. The second run through grad school, I was cognizant of this, and I made a point to be a real ***hole whenever I came across these pseudo-intellectuals. My recent run through grad school was a completely different experience because I had a different experience that helped me put it all into perspective. I'll get back to that last grad school experience in a second....

This other experience was my relationship with the first woman who ever owned me. She was a college educated woman who graduated from one of the University of Californias in a social science. I'll come straight out and say it. She was probably the most brilliant individual I've ever met. Hands down. I could talk about penguins as a joke, and she'd give me a verbal dissertation on the entire life process of the species. I'd mention an obscure historical event, and she would add interesting quips about some of the main characters in that story. There wasn't a thing she didn't know about, including me. And she never did it in a way to say, "Hey, look how smart I am." She did it in a way that made me feel like she really wanted to share information with me, to give me something to use and enjoy.

A few years later, I went back to school and took a different direction (instead of physics and biology) and decided to do the social science route. When I hit graduate school, I found myself much more interested in sharing what I knew, but for the purpose of sharing information, not to show what I knew. And I found people wanted to know this information. People would come to me and ask me about certain things, figuring I just probably knew it. And I usually did. If I didn't, I told them, and either led them to the right information or researched it further so I wouldn't lack it again. I found myself able to steer other graduate students to better studying, and I'm pretty proud of that. But I got a lot of that from that woman who once owned me. If she gave me anything, she gave me the desire to make sure knowledge is shared, not hoarded and not exploited.

That's what I think a lot of people are lacking these days. They see knowledge as something to be used, rather than something to be shared.

I apologize for this really long data dump of information. It wasn't really supposed to be this long. I'll go back to my crayons now.


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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/22/2009 10:40:45 PM   
ShaktiSama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I am reasonably certain that you can be smart without being able to read at all! 


Extremely.

Edited to add: Nice post, littlesarbonn. I generally avoid speaking in academic language unless it's obvious that the person I'm talking to really wants to speak in what amounts to a pidgin dialect.

Unfortunately, even very simple and short words can be misused or misunderstood, as this thread demonstrates.


< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 4/22/2009 10:51:32 PM >


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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/22/2009 11:27:56 PM   
LAgirlsub


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littlesarbonn, given that I’m not a well-read (definitely not) adjunct, I feel I should chime in for a moment…I often feel like there’s always more I need to know, to learn…bdsm anyone? (smile) yet even the craze over Harry Potter didn’t get me to read a novel. When I actually do, it’s usually a good experience but I chose to spend my time reading anything but fiction.

If I’m not reading all the other odd things I do, it should be a screenplay since I write them. Now does this make me a dunce compared to said literati? To them, maybe to me I don’t care. I’m attracted to people who can think creatively, in an original way and as you’ve explained well, that is not common in the academy. In fact, I find it unnerving how academics – oh the run of the mill sort – are lacking self-esteem, in what they know which some take it out on their students and regurgitate previous ideas with them fancy words lacking any true originality. I suppose to me it’s like religious people – those that are truly religious in my view are spiritual people who are not self-righteous – and those academics who are truly intelligent and love what they study/teach can show the highest level of understanding a subject when they can reach a wider audience with their language and they have no need to act intelligently for their audience, they just are.

Like SS above me (sorry if that unintentionally sounded sexual – smile). You can feel her genuine intelligence within a sentence or two and you know it doesn’t come from a need to demonstrate anything from ego but just to communicate in the manner she does. Personally I’m used to it. I always seem to have very intelligent people in my life that must find my ‘simplicity’ entertaining.

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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/23/2009 2:02:30 AM   
beeble


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quote:

littlesarbonn wrote:  I mean, I can't keep up with these Shakespeare people. Let's face it. I wrote my dissertation with green crayons.

My mum wrote mine.  I was more interested in eating the crayons.

beeble.


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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/23/2009 2:48:30 AM   
PeonForHer


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What was interesting was that both groups fell back into their own camps and offered almost no evaluative information but complained, based on only what kind of science they were used to, convinced that if science wasn't done that way, then it wasn't useful.
 
Oh god, you should try any interdisciplinary conference on the environment.  I've been to a good few of those.  Scientists and social scientists of every possible discipline, none absorbing what the others were saying.  Everyone was clear that we needed interdisciplinary syntheses (everything in the environment is related to everything else; therefore, human understanding of it had to be based on the same holistic principle) - but few could really wrench their heads the way those heads needed to go.  Discipline-boundedness is a pain in most contexts, but a downright tragedy when it comes to talking about environmental degradation and what to do about it.

What I discovered was that it was a great experience to learn new things, but along the way I kept running into people who really liked to hear themselves talk. In grad school for my first higher degree, I came across all sorts of people who were able to say really intelligent things that didn't mean anything. They'd use the word "normative" and I was floored because I rarely used the word.
 
One thing I've discovered teaching postgrads is that at that level - MA/MSc - people so often go through a peculiar period of loss of confidence in their own intellects.  It doesn't seem to happen nearly so much beforehand.  Nearly everyone I've taught turned up thinking thinking he or she was a thickie, while everyone else had a brain like a laser.  I wasn't any different when I did my own MA.

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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/23/2009 6:54:21 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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I decided a long time ago that the world of academia was not for me, and dang!  I made the right decision.

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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/23/2009 7:19:39 AM   
SnowRanger


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So what are you reading?

Hello A/all,

I went and looked up normative.  I wouldn't use the word either.  "Eshew Obfuscation!"  that's my motto.

I only have a Tech School (Associate's) Degree. (and I kick myself roundly for not going to State).  I do read alot, mostly history.  I did read a Harry Potter book.  Anyway, Games Theory, Decision Theory and Chaos theory "are outside the activities of my Strike Team."   If anyone can recomend a Games Theory 101 book I'll snap it up.  This brings me to my question.  Have you read any good books lately?

What are you reading now?
(me:  A Dawn Like Thunder, Mrazek, R)

What book should I read to understand you better?  Let's keep this at the 101 level... Tech school... remenber?   Perhaps there is a book about a significant event that you were close to or participated in.  Or maybe you read a book and said, "Yes! That's me."
(me:  Fire on the Mountain, Mclean, J)

What subject is "out side the activities of your Strike Team" that  you want to know more about?
(me: a Games Theory 101 book)

I'll have pen and paper handy... And my gift card to Half Price Books!

Mike
SnowRanger




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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/23/2009 8:14:02 AM   
PeonForHer


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Eschew Obfuscation
 
I have a tee shirt with that logo on it.  What makes me laugh is that the people at the Uni don't get the joke.  They just nod gravely and say, "good sentiment".

I've used my own tag line on windbags frequently.  It always works.

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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/23/2009 3:05:04 PM   
SlaveBlutarsky


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So I was listening to NPR on the way home and today would have been Willie's 400 something birthday. They had a speak like Shakespeare day in Chicago, not exactly the greatest combination. 

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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/23/2009 3:24:42 PM   
PeonForHer


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*Cackle* I'd have loved to hear a "Speak like Shakespeare Day" in New Jersey. 

It's also St George's Day - patron saint of England.  Some get wildly exuberant over that, most don't.  The flag of the Cross of St George engenders a lot of ambivalence here.

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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/23/2009 3:46:50 PM   
beeble


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quote:

PeonForHer wrote: It's also St George's Day - patron saint of England.

And Georgia, unsurprisingly. And Aragon and Catalonia.  Ethiopia. Greece. And Russia, Lithuania, Malta, Bavaria and Bulgaria, Portugal and Palestine.  Oh, and of people with herpes, the plague, syphilis and/or leprosy.  And skin diseases in general.

And he probably never visited England or half of those other places.  So, yeah.  Hard to care, much, really.

beeble.


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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/23/2009 3:49:04 PM   
PeonForHer


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You read The Independent too?



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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/23/2009 4:35:07 PM   
SlaveBlutarsky


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I aways wondered what the deal was with the St George's cross and the Union Jack, is the Cross specifically an Englad flag while the UJ is that of the UK or GB ?

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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/23/2009 4:42:38 PM   
Venalismihi


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Yep.

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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/23/2009 6:05:12 PM   
PeonForHer


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 . . . Except it's more correctly called the "Union Flag".

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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/23/2009 9:16:43 PM   
SnowRanger


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Speak as Shakespear Day...  Chicago...  I see your point.

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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/24/2009 3:21:23 AM   
beeble


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quote:

SlaveBlutarsky wrote: I aways wondered what the deal was with the St George's cross and the Union Jack, is the Cross specifically an Englad flag while the UJ is that of the UK or GB ?

The cross of St George is the flag of England.  The Union Jack/flag is the flag of the UK and consists of cross of St George, superimposed on the cross of St Andrew (white diagonal cross on a blue background, representing Scotland) and the cross of St Patrick (red diagonal on a white background, originally representing Ireland but now representing just the north).  Wales is not directly represented in the flag, because it was united with England by being conquered, whereas Scotland and Ireland entered the union by treaty.  Technically, Wales is represented by the cross of St George, because Wales was a part of the Kingdom of England at the point when England and Scotland were united.

Great Britain is not synonymous with the UK: Great Britain is the large island that forms the mainland of England, Scotland and Wales.  That said, for some reason, the UK competes at the Olympics as `Great Britain' and the ISO two-letter country code for the UK is `GB' (buh?).  As such, the UK is the only country in the world that doesn't use its ISO code as its top-level internet domain (it uses .uk).

Also, insisting that it be called the `Union Flag' is false pedantry: there's no agreement on which is the proper name for the flag.

beeble.

We now return you to your scheduled discussion of dirty stuff.

< Message edited by beeble -- 4/24/2009 3:22:14 AM >


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RE: Eduated Subs?!#****! - 4/24/2009 6:18:48 AM   
PeonForHer


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Don't forget 'the British Isles' - which includes England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and sundry other islands.

Actually, a great deal of it's considered pedantic these days (including the distinction betweeen 'United Kingdom' and 'Great Britain') despite what the Wikipedia entries say.  The general rules from the chief examiner, when I've been marking A level politics papers are a) that the students know that Ireland isn't to be covered in any question asking about the various nationalisms of the UK but that b) the term 'British nationalism' doesn't just refer to the far right groups operating mostly in England.  Points don't get deducted for not distinguishing between the UK and Great Britain, nor other things.  But - this is the subject of politics - it's not constitution.

Masochists who enjoy headaches can find what they need about these subjects at

http://schools-wikipedia.org/wp/t/Terminology_of_the_British_Isles.htm

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Flag

If you read all this and instantly forget it - don't worry.  So do I, and have to read it all again just before I mark the exams again every June.


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