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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 10:37:15 AM

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What I would allow, specifically, is what is allowed under the Geneva Conventions.

I would specifically allow what common sense would tell anyone the difference between interrogation and torture is.

Specifically, for one, waterboarding, which we have historically viewed as a war crime until Bush and Cheney tried to convince people it wasn't torture but an "interrogation technique".

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 10:53:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I find it amusing that conservatives are so cock sure that the system puts the right guy on death row,but are deathly affraid to let it judge the torturers.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"..... Samuel Johnson

Owner, the real issue is that many people feel that we simply can't "play fair" with terrorists me among them and I'm far from being a conservative.
What is all this "being held to a higher standard" stuff when we're dealing with savages who want nothing more than to kill us?
Look at this 19 year old "pirate" that we've now *brought to the U.S. from Somalia*.
He's going to "stand trial?" in the U.S.? They should have executed him after they shot those other three bastards!
How much is this going to cost us? And who's bright fucking idea was that?
You don't "social-work" terrorists/pirates, you kill them.
Those are matters for the military not the courts.
You can't enter the ring with a ball and chain around your ankle and expect to beat the opposition.
In WW2 my father's ship would sink Jap barges full of soldiers and then machine gun any survivors in the water so that they wouldn't swim ashore and kill our Marines. What else could they have done, take them prisoner and give them "trials?"
It's getting ludicrous, being concerned with "rights" of people who are trying their best to kill you?
One thing we should have done long ago is to get out of that rediculous "Geneva Accords."

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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 11:18:30 AM

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It's only a crime for certain people to do it though - that's the rub.

The CIA agents who actually did it weren't doing anything illegal, were they.

And Democrats who nodded their heads in approval?

Nothing illegal there.

Clinton and Gore approving the kidnap, rendition and torture of terrorists?

Can't investigate THAT.

It's only those damn Republicans who, ahem, co-authorized it with the Democrats.

But NOT the Democrats, only the Republicans.

And it doesn't really matter if you insist that you personally want to see all of them hang because that's not what's going down.

Not even close.

What we're seeing is something you would formerly only see in what are called banana republics, a witch hunt conducted by an incoming political group against members of the prior political group who held power.

Not a good path to get started down, not at all.

quote:

Specifically, for one, waterboarding, which we have historically viewed as a war crime until Bush and Cheney tried to convince people it wasn't torture but an "interrogation technique".

< Message edited by Sanity -- 4/26/2009 11:44:47 AM >

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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 11:31:47 AM

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You know I have said this before, but I'll say it again.

I don't care which party it was, if a case can be made against them for allowing, pursuing, or promoting illegal actions then they should be prosecuted.

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 11:42:18 AM

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That's something everyone can agree with, and I'll add this - lady justice indeed needs to be blind.

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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 11:43:51 AM

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By the way, speaking of witch hunts, you remember that thing about Clinton getting a blowjob, that he got impeached over?

Personally I wouldn't have cared if Bush banged every hooker in D.C.

What I do care about is the use of authority in my name to commit acts that at worst were illegal and at best were something that earned us worldwide scorn.

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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 11:47:00 AM

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But does she really have to cover her breast (as Ashcroft did)?

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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 11:52:10 AM

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That was an independent counsel (Kenneth Starr) who conducted that investigation - not the Republicans.

The only way these two things would be similar is if W had sent his Attorney General (Ashcroft, or whomever) after Bill Clinton for lying to that grand jury, etc.

That's why I'm raising the specter of this being a brazenly partisan witch hunt, it's Obama's Attorney General (at present) who Obama is pushing to have conduct any investigation.

If there is an investigation, it has to be conducted by someone who both sides can agree is nonpartisan.

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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 11:59:41 AM

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Read an article today that detailed the slippery slope to torture,and its attending consequences.The op-ed piece drew a nice distinction between Lynddie England ,Charles Graner and the well educated scum that wrote the Kafkaesque interpretations of our laws in order to codify torture.
The most glaring distinction is of course the former have and are being held accountable....the latter not so much.Yoo ,Steven Bradbury and Jay Bybee have moved on.Bybee to a judgeship(as a result of his questionable grasp of legal matters?)
There is a sister thread here that states "Obama wrong on Torture"...well ,yeah he is,if the only people held accountable for this black mark in American History turn out to be the likes of England and Graner.we can expect to go down this route again.
We can not excise this stain on our world wide reputation,nor redeem our standing amongst legal nations by throwing the likes of England under the bus.....the damage done demands to be accounted for.

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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 12:02:27 PM

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Are you seriously trying to tell me Kenneth Starr wasn't a Republican partisan?

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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 12:13:46 PM

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Yeah Rule,thats what he is trying to say..........Starr a disinterested legal scholar....ROFLMAO!!!!!!

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 12:22:58 PM

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Have a link to that article Mike?

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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 12:26:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Have a link to that article Mike?

Yeah Rule,I hope I do this right...
www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/opinion/26rich.html

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 1:05:35 PM

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I had to quote your link here, it was an excellent summary:

The report found that Maj. Paul Burney, a United States Army psychiatrist assigned to interrogations in Guantánamo Bay that summer of 2002, told Army investigators of another White House imperative: “A large part of the time we were focused on trying to establish a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq and we were not being successful.” As higher-ups got more “frustrated” at the inability to prove this connection, the major said, “there was more and more pressure to resort to measures” that might produce that intelligence.

In other words, the ticking time bomb was not another potential Qaeda attack on America but the Bush administration’s ticking timetable for selling a war in Iraq; it wanted to pressure Congress to pass a war resolution before the 2002 midterm elections.
Bybee’s memo was written the week after the then-secret (and subsequently leaked) “Downing Street memo,” in which the head of British intelligence informed Tony Blair that the Bush White House was so determined to go to war in Iraq that “the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.”

A month after Bybee’s memo, on Sept. 8, 2002, Cheney would make his infamous appearance on “Meet the Press,” hyping both Saddam’s W.M.D.s and the “number of contacts over the years” between Al Qaeda and Iraq. If only 9/11 could somehow be pinned on Iraq, the case for war would be a slamdunk.

But there were no links between 9/11 and Iraq, and the White House knew it.
Torture may have been the last hope for coercing such bogus “intelligence” from detainees who would be tempted to say anything to stop the waterboarding.

Last week Bush-Cheney defenders, true to form, dismissed the Senate Armed Services Committee report as “partisan.” But as the committee chairman, Carl Levin, told me, the report received unanimous support from its members — John McCain, Lindsey Graham and Joe Lieberman included.

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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 1:16:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

By the way, speaking of witch hunts, you remember that thing about Clinton getting a blowjob, that he got impeached over?

Personally I wouldn't have cared if Bush banged every hooker in D.C.

What I do care about is the use of authority in my name to commit acts that at worst were illegal and at best were something that earned us worldwide scorn.

Rule, Clinton wasn't impeached for a "blowjob" he was impeached for "purjury." Lying while under oath.
The guy was a *lowlife*.

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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 1:25:50 PM

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After 8 years of Bush and Cheney.....Clinton looks like an alter boy.Perhaps if Bush and Cheney had been more interessted in getting some head,rather than invading Iraq we would all have been better off.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to popeye1250)

RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 1:41:07 PM

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I never fell for the far left's shameless attempts to smear Kenneth Star, no.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Are you seriously trying to tell me Kenneth Starr wasn't a Republican partisan?

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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 2:12:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Rule, Clinton wasn't impeached for a "blowjob" he was impeached for "purjury." Lying while under oath.
The guy was a *lowlife*.

No, he was impeached in a political witch hunt that started the moment he was elected.

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RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 2:15:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I never fell for the far left's shameless attempts to smear Kenneth Star, no.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Are you seriously trying to tell me Kenneth Starr wasn't a Republican partisan?

I see, so what you are trying to tell me is he was completely non-partisan. Is that right?

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Poor Dick - 4/26/2009 2:25:17 PM

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No one can be completely nonpartisan, now you're trying to cobble together a ridiculous straw man...

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