RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 1:36:48 PM

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

A Charlton Heston quote,it doesn't get any better than that......thanks Term you have staked out your position beautifully.I beleive Chuck did the same thing.....right after Columbine.Smooth guy that Chuck was....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Termyn8or)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 1:41:54 PM

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Assuming that people have the right to own guns, there is no need for registrations or background check.

People have the right of free speech, yet are restricted by libel and slander laws.

(in reply to Sanity)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 1:44:10 PM

Crush

Posts: 1031
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Assuming that people have the right to own guns, there is no need for registrations or background check.

People have the right of free speech, yet are restricted by libel and slander laws.

And there are laws against using guns to rob or kill or other way misuse the firearm....

_____________________________

"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 1:49:46 PM

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

And there are laws against using guns to rob or kill or other way misuse the firearm....

Haven't been working too well lately though, huh?

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 4/22/2009 1:50:26 PM >

(in reply to Crush)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 1:53:53 PM

Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

No offense, but it's always been my impression that that's exactly what you are doing. You assert a position, then defend it angrily. I've never seen you do much of anything else.

The only things that really make me angry are cruelty, bigotry, and ideological “thinking.” Other than that if I appear to be angry it’s more likely that I’m just being a curmudgeon for the fun of it.

This may surprise you and slavemike4u but the truth is I don’t have a problem with waiting periods and background checks in an effort to keep guns away from criminals and nutcases. What I do have a problem with is:

a) The inherent belief that this will necessarily work in reducing gun violence (there is theory and then there is application – the two don’t always jive).

b) That we can and should implement this via simple legislation. There is a process for amending the Constitution and it is made difficult for a reason – rights are not something to be trifled with. Rights are not a fad. They are an individual's trump card against the power of the government.

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 2:27:20 PM

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

And there are laws against using guns to rob or kill or other way misuse the firearm....

Haven't been working too well lately though, huh?

See but that is just it.

The Second Amendment does not give you the right to Kill, Maim, or Murder another human being. If you do that you are still subject to the laws of the land.

The Second Amendment gives me the right to Own the guns what I do once I have them is where the legal system somes into play, and they can only punish the action they are not allowed to infinge upon the right which is why states cannot ban firearms all together but they can make it more difficult to own them legally.

What sucks about that is that only those who follow the laws suffer when that is done, those who are criminals don't care, This is why making a stricter policy only hurts the law abiding citizen. Criminals and those who misuse firearms just don't give a shit to being with.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 2:28:38 PM

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

So,what your syaing here is done right....you have no problem with this completly reasonable "tweaking" of the 2nd.
Another convert....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Marc2b)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 3:47:30 PM

Crush

Posts: 1031
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush
And there are laws against using guns to rob or kill or other way misuse the firearm....

Haven't been working too well lately though, huh?

Actually, they have been working very well. I don't see people not paying a price for misusing them.

_____________________________

"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 4:10:03 PM

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

Well crush the justification behind a tweaking of the second would be preventive not necessarily in the area of punishment.Consequences do the dead no favors.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Crush)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 4:12:38 PM

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

Steel the trickle down theory says if it is more difficult to purchase guns illegal....criminals will find it harder to get guns.Simple law of supply and demand....make anything more difficult to acquire and supply gets tighter....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 5:47:15 PM

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Steel the trickle down theory says if it is more difficult to purchase guns illegal....criminals will find it harder to get guns.Simple law of supply and demand....make anything more difficult to acquire and supply gets tighter....

Then you have no idea how easy it is to get a guy from out of this country.

The Problem that people who honestly think getting rid of guns will fix the problem is you have no idea how many guns there currently are in the US.

I could literally arm ever man woman and child with the existing guns that are already here.

And you are Mistaken that by taking guns away it will make it harder for criminals to get them it is already easier for a Criminal to get a gun then it is to get one legally. I could literally take 200 dollars down the street and purchase a gun RIGHT NOW! No Waiting Period No NOTHING.

When you take guns away from those who follow the laws you just leave them defenceless.

Now lets play a Game.

You come to My house where I have a gun and break in and try to assult or possible kill me, where I will shoot you and be arrested and go to court where I will be able to defend my actions based on what you did.

I will go to your house where you do not have a gun and I will try to assult you or possibly try to kill you and you call 911 and see if you are okay and I am still there when the police arrive.

As I said the Second Amendment does not give me the right to Kill it only gives me the right to the arms that allowed me to do so. I would rather be educated and able to protect myself rather than wait for Police to arrive, which by the way when they do if I was still there you would have a Hostage situation and guess what happens them, they leave you and me in the house together where I get more upset because you called the cops.

So far I see you as Helpless and either way me as the Agressor or the Protector it would seem that I am in a better situation all around.

Seriously man think about what the REALITY of getting rid of guns for those who ABIDE by the law would mean?

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 7:52:09 PM

Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

So,what your syaing here is done right....you have no problem with this completly reasonable "tweaking" of the 2nd.
Another convert....

Hardly a convert. More like an explorer.

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 7:58:33 PM

Posts: 132
Joined: 2/16/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Steel the trickle down theory says if it is more difficult to purchase guns illegal....criminals will find it harder to get guns.Simple law of supply and demand....make anything more difficult to acquire and supply gets tighter....

Then you have no idea how easy it is to get a guy from out of this country.

The Problem that people who honestly think getting rid of guns will fix the problem is you have no idea how many guns there currently are in the US.

I could literally arm ever man woman and child with the existing guns that are already here.

And you are Mistaken that by taking guns away it will make it harder for criminals to get them it is already easier for a Criminal to get a gun then it is to get one legally. I could literally take 200 dollars down the street and purchase a gun RIGHT NOW! No Waiting Period No NOTHING.

When you take guns away from those who follow the laws you just leave them defenceless.

Now lets play a Game.

You come to My house where I have a gun and break in and try to assult or possible kill me, where I will shoot you and be arrested and go to court where I will be able to defend my actions based on what you did.

I will go to your house where you do not have a gun and I will try to assult you or possibly try to kill you and you call 911 and see if you are okay and I am still there when the police arrive.

As I said the Second Amendment does not give me the right to Kill it only gives me the right to the arms that allowed me to do so. I would rather be educated and able to protect myself rather than wait for Police to arrive, which by the way when they do if I was still there you would have a Hostage situation and guess what happens them, they leave you and me in the house together where I get more upset because you called the cops.

So far I see you as Helpless and either way me as the Agressor or the Protector it would seem that I am in a better situation all around.

Seriously man think about what the REALITY of getting rid of guns for those who ABIDE by the law would mean?

Steel

Couldn't have said it any better BRAVO Steel

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 8:29:02 PM

Posts: 132
Joined: 2/16/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Well then I have to ask what you mean by arbitrarily. There are established procedures for amendments.

I mean passing laws that restrict my Second Amendment rights without going through the established procedures for amending the Constitution.

Said with the certainty of a man who knows the NRA and its brethren would never allow such an event to happen.Lobbiests can be useful at times heh Marc,as long as it is your own narrow point of view they are championing.

all I Know is went through the process I also went to school for my permit that allows me to Carry ....it wasn't a overnite deal as some have said about scoring from the streets Yes that can be Done I like the fact if I need to Use said protetion its there and Mike have You been a victim of this type of violance You speak so soundly on or lost someone over gun violance

< Message edited by painpup -- 4/22/2009 8:31:41 PM >

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/22/2009 9:30:18 PM

Crush

Posts: 1031
Status: offline

(here we go again...I should just keep this where I could copy/paste)

There doesn't need to be a tweak to the 2nd Amendment. It is pretty darn clear and has been affirmed by the Supreme Court in DC vs Heller as an individual right.

What needs to happen is to have fewer people who have no choice to but to be victims. It doesn't mean everyone needs to be armed. It just means that people have the right to be armed. And the right recognized in the 2A to use force of arms, if necessary, to overthrow their government* or to defend themselves.

I work at a university that has had three reported gun incidents this past year. And a couple strong arm incidents as well. Why do the bad guys come here? Lots of reasons: easy things to steal and resell (iPods, laptops, etc.) , young & trusting people, and of course, the fact that it is a weapon-free zone. And the reports in the news that these things happen just adds to the possibility that other criminals will show up here.

It is important to realize that the overwhelming majority of those of us that carry firearms aren't out to use them. We know it is a decision that we've made has the possibility to end a life. But we're willing to accept that consequence if it means our own life or the lives of those we care about are protected.

We don't need more laws...we need the laws we currently have in place reviewed and enforced. We need honest reporting, including the stories we don't see about how someone was able to defend himself, even if he didn't have to shoot. Tons of those stories exist, but never make the news.

The firearm is a force equalizer. A 65 yr old man in a wheelchair is on an even par with a 22 yr old gangbanger if he's armed. It doesn't mean that the old man would prevail, but it means he has a shot at prevailing instead of being a victim.

--------
And now, the 9th Circuit Court in California, regarded as one of the most liberal courts in the nation, recognizes Heller vs DC. And recognizes that it is not to be disregarded by states or local governments.

Of course, now we have to deal with the most rabid anti-gun Cabinet in some time. However, given the 50% increase in gun sales since November, especially among first time gun owners, it might be a bit more difficult to pass such laws.
----
* yes, overthrow the government. Federalist Papers. Constitutional Debates. George Mason. Thomas Jefferson. Virginia Constitution.

_____________________________

"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain

(in reply to painpup)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/23/2009 8:16:26 AM

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush
And there are laws against using guns to rob or kill or other way misuse the firearm....

Haven't been working too well lately though, huh?

Actually, they have been working very well. I don't see people not paying a price for misusing them.

Did you happen to see we had 52 people killed in mass shooting sprees in one month alone?

That's just in mass killings, not including other gun violence.

(in reply to Crush)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/23/2009 8:25:38 AM

Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush
And there are laws against using guns to rob or kill or other way misuse the firearm....

Haven't been working too well lately though, huh?

Actually, they have been working very well. I don't see people not paying a price for misusing them.

Did you happen to see we had 52 people killed in mass shooting sprees in one month alone?

That's just in mass killings, not including other gun violence.

Just how many of those happened in gun free zones?

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/23/2009 8:26:28 AM

Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline

To all of the anti- 2nd. amendment folks on here, I think you should all put a big sign on your front door. THIS HOUSE IS A GUN FREE ZONE..For myself, I'll keep the criminals guessing whether I am armed and will defend myself and family.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/23/2009 9:16:00 AM

Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

FR

........automobiles are not referenced in the Constitution. There's a reason for this, they weren't around. However if they had been around would they have been mentioned? After all, possession and use of a car is an important thing...especially in a country the size of the USA. Without one, you can be restricted from certain employment opportunities.
The use of a car is made contingent on passing a test. The sole purpose of this test is to ensure the operator of a car knows how to use one safely. That's all. There's no political agenda, simply the idea that if you're going to take charge of a large piece of hurtling metal it's best to know how to steer and hit the breaks.
Now guns were mentioned in the Constitution. They were around. Let's take it as read that they are as necessary to life as a car. Given that, why not require a small amount of training before allowing people to own and operate them? Let's say the same level of training as we require for car users. After all, unsafe operation of a gun is potentially just as dangerous as unsafe operation of a car. It's a historical accident that one was mentioned in the Constitution and one wasn't.
As Marc has said earlier, an individuals rights end where anothers begins. Unsafe operation of a gun can potentialy infringe another persons rights. i'm not arguing against gun ownership...just suggesting that those who do own guns are required to know how to operate them in a manner that doesn't screw other people up.

(in reply to servantforuse)

RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment - 4/23/2009 9:27:53 AM

Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline

I agree with that totally. There should be a law requiring all gang members to attend hunter safety courses before they obtain a firearm..

(in reply to philosophy)

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Another win for the 2nd Amendment

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.102