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FirmhandKY -> RE: Sen. Arlen Specter Switches Parties - Becomes Democrat (4/30/2009 4:37:03 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Okay Firm,that is where we part company in my eyes a middle course is not only preferable but it is to be desired. An unfettered free market leaves too many on the outside looking in,not to mention leads to far too many abuses of the working class.While a "collectivism" tends to stifle the entrepenurial streak that makes this country great.Better a tight rope walk of balance that keeps the best of both methods uneasily co-existing.
Of course there needs to be a balance. The question is, where should the balance point be?
Therein lies the crux of the issue,it is my beleif that right now we are too far right....and are in need of a correction to the left
And collectivism doesn't just stifle the "entrepreneurial streak". It stifles the very core of humanity and individual freedom.
Agreed...to a point....attatching the label collectivism would seem to be a tactic used by some to paint as evil any attempt to see to the common good....sometimes at the expence of individualism.And that is a necessary evil.
Government is a necessary evil. Necessary - but by definition and inherent structure - evil in that it intrudes on the sovereignty of the individual.
Couldn't disagree with this more.Government is not,and should not be viewed as an evil.Government doesn't posess intrinsic evil qualities....it is up to the electorate to ensure that their representatives address their issues.Anarchy is evil....the tyranny of the majority is evil.Government is our only defence against either of these excesses.
When the the majority ... or even a large minority ... of the voters rely upon the government for the forcible transfer of funds from the other half ... then there can be nothing more than increasing demands for such support.
When the minority perverts Government to nefarious ends...and as a consequence the majority fall further and further behind.....the middle class faces extinction.
We are currently at about that half-way point. I suspect the current administration - before it is out of office - will see it tip over.
I suspect the current administration will spend most of its first term redressing the inequities of the last 8 years....amid much hand wringing from the minority that had benefited from those failed policies.Too soon to know what will be the focus of the second term...lol
And you confuse "unfettered free-market" with a desire for rapacious greed. An increasing collective government turns into a much worse system, with much worst rapacious greed going on.
No Firm,unfortunatly an "unfettered free market" inevitably leads to rapacious greed...much like day follows night.It is the human condition....
In fact, a strong, centralized, collective government gets in bed with the worst of companies and individuals who will always seek to use the growing power of government to increase their profits and personal power, and turn the power of government to their advantage.
Checks and balances Firm...and the ultimate power of the electorate ...the voting booth.
So, by demonizing the free enterprise system, and encouraging the growth of government you are philosophically responsible for the growth of a much more tyrannical and unfair system.
No one here(least not me) is demonising the free enterprise system,just recognising a need for checks on such a system ...a balance between open markets with fairness and transparency imposed...open to all,not just a select few who "game" the system.
The correct way to effectively control greed, and the worst of excess is internally, through a moral system and structure which teaches internal self-control, delayed gratification, social conscience, the dignity of the individual, and encourages private and free associational charity.
You show an amasing amount of beleif in your fellow man,while evidencing a strong disbeleif in that same moral code if the man enters public service.....please explain the loss of morality and structure once a man enters public life?
This is the only type of system which will actually achieve a stable, livable society in which the sovereignty of the individual can be respected, and in which true freedom can flourish.
Our current situation would seem to belie your beleif in a self governing market...
The growing power of government turns this on it's head, and makes all social controls a matter of law, not personal choice, and social approval or disapproval. It is a system based on force, not freedom.
Again it would seem to me you fear the control of government ,while granting to the market place the ultimate in economic control.
Mike,
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
I am very much interested in engaging you, however, this week I'm very busily occupied, and may not be able to get back to the discussion in detail, so it may be this weekend or later before I can.
Just wanted to let you know that I've not deserted the field, just otherwise productively engaged at the moment.
Firm
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