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RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:37:21 PM

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quote:

actually the King James Bible 1611 edition (the only bible i read) was put up against the Dead Sea Scrolls found in Isreal and found to 95% accurate.

What's your source for this?

Of course, 5% can make a big difference. Witness chimps and humans. Slight variations in the two species' DNA has led to some major differences.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to wolfcannon)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:37:28 PM

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My pleasure, Politesub. :)

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He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:39:38 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrPBK
Thinks maybe a new thread needs to be started ... ummm

slightly off topic ... if the essence of the King James Bible (1611) was off by 5% in accuracy could you summarize for us as to where that 5% is in mis-translated passages? As a Unitariain Universallist I have heard rumblings that "Thou shall not kill" ought to be "Thou shall not murder". I have also heard that the King James Bible (1611) has NOT ONE reference to Homosexuality (maybe that is a myth).

MstrPBK
St .Paul, MN USA

Kind of a myth. However the 'bible' doesn't contain any definitve ones. I have never seen substantial evidence.
But hey, I am still waiting for someone to respond to stella.
I'm up for a challenge.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:49:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Kind of a myth. However the 'bible' doesn't contain any definitve ones. I have never seen substantial evidence.
But hey, I am still waiting for someone to respond to stella.
I'm up for a challenge.

the.dark.

Wait. Are you saying that "Thou shalt not be homosexual" isn't one of the 10 commandments?

::hands .dark. an all-day lollipop while she waits for an answer to Stella's question:: I have a feeling you're going to be here for a while so thought you might like something to suck on while ya wait. ::chuckles::

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:56:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

It takes some digging but it's explained Bibically why homosexuality is a sin; and it's not just because God thinks it's icky.

The thing about the Bible objection to homosexuality and marriage is that the Bible says that you can have multiple wives and concubines.

As for homosexual acts being abominations, so was blending linen and wool. There were a whole lot of things that were abominations and are performed today without a blink of an eye.

thornhappy

(in reply to Truthiness)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:56:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: wolfcannon

yes i know that jesus was a jew and that means what? so he was a carpenter? okay what is the point? actually if you read the Old Testament it is in Leviticus 20:13 if man also lie with mankind, as with he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed and abmination; the shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." but i am not advocating this because i haves sinned and have fallen far short of perfection, as all christians know only one person born of woman was perfect, his name is Jesus. and actually the King James Bible 1611 edition (the only bible i read) was put up against the Dead Sea Scrolls found in Isreal and found to 95% accurate. and yes i have at home the concordance with the original hebrew and greek alongside the English. but i am without it im my truck.

I am just head banging a brick wall in this discussion really aren't I? Does canaanites do anything for you? Purity codes?
If you need a concordence to know your bible, I don't have much else to discuss with you, because it is obvious you have not taken the time to study for yourself.
I enjoy discussions with people who know their bible or religious writings. But when arguing back and forth with people who need to check out thier notes or biblical concordence, that is often (though not always) pointless. Besides, it's like a lamb to slaughter *see... see... drumrole... I did another!*
Geeze, at least with Kenin he could hold his own.

Really - Get thee to romans.

the.dark.

then by your logic i should know the entire bible by heart english, hebrew and greek. sorry i dont, im a human being not a robot. actually i made that refernce to note i do check the 1611 king james against the greek and hebrew. im sorry you have a narrow view of life.

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:56:28 PM

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Well out of many translations I've seen for Romans 1:26-28, (including my own, though my knowledge of Greek is rather weak...been concentrating on Hebrew first) I've yet to see one that wasn't rather clear that same sex acts were being referred to.

διὰ τοῦτο παρέδωκεν αὐτοὺς ὁ θεὸς εἰς πάθη ἀτιμίας, αἵ τε γὰρ θήλειαι αὐτῶν μετήλλαξαν τὴν φυσικὴν χρῆσιν εἰς τὴν παρὰ φύσιν

ὁμοίως τε καὶ οἱ ἄρσενες ἀφέντες τὴν φυσικὴν χρῆσιν τῆς θηλείας ἐξεκαύθησαν ἐν τῇ ὀρέξει αὐτῶν εἰς ἀλλήλους, ἄρσενες ἐν ἄρσεσιν τὴν ἀσχημοσύνην κατεργαζόμενοι καὶ τὴν ἀντιμισθίαν ἣν ἔδει τῆς πλάνης αὐτῶν ἐν ἑαυτοῖς ἀπολαμβάνοντες.

Young's Literal translation (I've run into occasional disagreements with his translations but mainly in the OT) for instance translates that as -

26Because of this did God give them up to dishonourable affections, for even their females did change the natural use into that against nature;

27and in like manner also the males having left the natural use of the female, did burn in their longing toward one another; males with males working shame, and the recompense of their error that was fit, in themselves receiving.

(in reply to RCdc)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 4:59:57 PM

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ahh i see now says the blind man. *bow*s tis better to leave well enough. i can see that it is better to disagree and leave in peace. Darcyandthedark ty for the stimulating conversation. i leave with no ill feelings and i hope that you can see i have none toward you.

(in reply to wolfcannon)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:02:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Truthiness

Romans 1 was pretty critical of homosexuality too and explains it's origin.

A book by Paul, is it not?

(in reply to Truthiness)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:03:36 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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Yummy!
That will help see me through my challange training...

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:04:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrPBK

Thinks maybe a new thread needs to be started ... ummm

quote:

ORIGINAL: wolfcannon
yes i know that jesus was a jew and that means what? so he was a carpenter? okay what is the point? actually if you read the Old Testament it is in Leviticus 20:13 if man also lie with mankind, as with he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed and abmination; the shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." but i am not advocating this because i haves sinned and have fallen far short of perfection, as all christians know only one person born of woman was perfect, his name is Jesus. and actually the King James Bible 1611 edition (the only bible i read) was put up against the Dead Sea Scrolls found in Isreal and found to 95% accurate. and yes i have at home the concordance with the original hebrew and greek alongside the English. but i am without it im my truck.

slightly off topic ... if the essence of the King James Bible (1611) was off by 5% in accuracy could you summarize for us as to where that 5% is in mis-translated passages? As a Unitariain Universallist I have heard rumblings that "Thou shall not kill" ought to be "Thou shall not murder". I have also heard that the King James Bible (1611) has NOT ONE reference to Homosexuality (maybe that is a myth).

MstrPBK
St .Paul, MN USA

sir yes the "thou shalt not kill" should be "thou shall not murder" you are correct. as for God giving laws against homosexuality yes i have posted what book and verse it was wrote in.

(in reply to MstrPBK)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:05:14 PM

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Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

the blind man

This brought to mind a favorite poem, about six blind men who go to "see" an elephant and fall into bitter disputes as to what it is like. The poem ends:

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to wolfcannon)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:06:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: wolfcannon

may i make an observation here. the ppl of california, reinterate (PEOPLE) voted. one of the most fundemental rights of an AMERICAN citizen to do. a call to vote on a issue was put before the whole of the state of california, yes? regardless of christian (which i am) or non christian, all sides voted. the issue was decided by VOTING. i saw nothing but the constitution at work with this.

So, you're cool if the people vote and reinstate slavery or strip the woman's right to vote? I mean, I know that violates United States Constitutional law and everything, but a vote is a vote right? If it's okay that Prop 8 violates Constitutional law, then it's okay if another Prop violates another law, right? Where's your line and what happens when it's crossed?

there is a constitutional amendment against slavery and one for women voting. no Prop 8 does not violate any known constitution ammendment i know of and im looking at the constition right this second.

< Message edited by wolfcannon -- 5/29/2009 5:07:52 PM >

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:10:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: wolfcannon

may i make an observation here. the ppl of california, reinterate (PEOPLE) voted. one of the most fundemental rights of an AMERICAN citizen to do. a call to vote on a issue was put before the whole of the state of california, yes? regardless of christian (which i am) or non christian, all sides voted. the issue was decided by VOTING. i saw nothing but the constitution at work with this.

....ah, majority rule. Ever heard of electoral tyranny? 51% of the people get to tell the other 49% how to live. Some things are just wrong, and i don't really care how many people vote for it.

well as far as i know we live in a Majority Rules goverment. sorry. the Majority of the ppl set the rules and laws.d

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:12:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolfcannon

yes i know that jesus was a jew and that means what? so he was a carpenter? okay what is the point? actually if you read the Old Testament it is in Leviticus 20:13 if man also lie with mankind, as with he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed and abmination; the shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." but i am not advocating this because i haves sinned and have fallen far short of perfection, as all christians know only one person born of woman was perfect, his name is Jesus. and actually the King James Bible 1611 edition (the only bible i read) was put up against the Dead Sea Scrolls found in Isreal and found to 95% accurate. and yes i have at home the concordance with the original hebrew and greek alongside the English. but i am without it im my truck.

In that case.....seeing that Christ spent much of his adult life living and eating and sleeping among his 12 disciples, it does raise a question regarding his sexuality in that frame of reference.

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(in reply to wolfcannon)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:15:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolfcannon

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: wolfcannon

may i make an observation here. the ppl of california, reinterate (PEOPLE) voted. one of the most fundemental rights of an AMERICAN citizen to do. a call to vote on a issue was put before the whole of the state of california, yes? regardless of christian (which i am) or non christian, all sides voted. the issue was decided by VOTING. i saw nothing but the constitution at work with this.

....ah, majority rule. Ever heard of electoral tyranny? 51% of the people get to tell the other 49% how to live. Some things are just wrong, and i don't really care how many people vote for it.

well as far as i know we live in a Majority Rules government. sorry. the Majority of the ppl set the rules and laws.d

Yet the minority was able to change the rules (laws) when women fought for the right to vote, blacks fought for the right to end segregation. So why should me and my kind sit back and ignore the call to correct laws which are unequal and unjust?

_____________________________

Do Not Rile da Chosen Bear

Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

Resident MANWHORE ~1000 Bear pts~

10 NZ points
Whips~n~Cuffs

(in reply to wolfcannon)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:17:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

By your logic, any law that prohibits someone from having the same rights and privileges as the majority of the people is bigoted.

The problem with this logic is that there are laws that prohibit various rights to convicted felons, and force restrictions on other convicted criminals, such as the laws that require sex offenders to register where they live.

There is also a law that prohibits people who were not born American citizens from becoming president.

Now while I have nothing against gay marriage, there is a simple fact that you have not considered.

In a republic, such as the United States, (the US is NOT a democracy) the majority of people elect representatives to government office to make laws for the MAJORITY of the citizens. Whether you like it or not, majority rules, and the majority of the citizens in the United States still have problems with gay and lesbian marriage.

While there is widespread acceptance of the lifestyle choice, there are still limits to how far that acceptance will go.

Finally, be thankful that the 'sodomy' laws are not being enforced, since those laws prohibit any sex act other than vaginal penetration between men and women.

By the way, those laws are still used when prosecuting sex related crimes.

So quit pissing and moaning and advocating armed violence against the government, get over yourself and wait until the rest of the country is more tolerant... or you can move to a country that allows gay and lesbian marriage.

Laws that take away rights from convicted felons are PUNISHMENTS for people who HURT INNOCENT PEOPLE. It's reactionary and thus just.

As for the law prohibiting people not born in the United States from becoming President, guess what? I'm against that law and fully believe it should be changed.

Third, the federal government overturned ALL the sodomy laws a few years back. None of them are valid anymore, and by the Constitution, can't be enforced.

Fourth, it's not a "lifestyle choice". I didn't choose to be this way, I was BORN this way. You people want to keep pushing the choice thing, but you're wrong. Personal experience proves that fact. I didn't make any choice in this. I'm attracted to women, not men, period, I didn't chose it, I was born that way.

All of this still doesn't rebuke the fact that, majority belief or no, being for heterosexual marriage and against gay marriage is oppression and bigotry by definition.

By the way, using the "love it or leave it" mentality pretty much voids anything else you might have to say because it's a critical flaw in debate. You just don't understand anything about the United States if you think that way.

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled 6-3 that sodomy laws are unconstitutional on June 26, 2003.

that part is true. guess what? people are still being arrested for sodomy

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_safety/story/1084201.html

and this may be of further interest, especially in regards to the military

http://www.sodomylaws.org/

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 5/29/2009 5:21:39 PM >

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RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:17:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolfcannon

well as far as i know we live in a Majority Rules goverment. sorry. the Majority of the ppl set the rules and laws.d

...as others have pointed out you live in a republic, not a democracy. However, given your staunch support for the democratic will of the people i'm sure you consider GWB's presidency illegal as Al Gore won the popular vote......

(in reply to wolfcannon)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:19:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolfcannon

well as far as i know we live in a Majority Rules goverment. sorry. the Majority of the ppl set the rules and laws.d

You would be wrong then. We live in a republic which is charter based, not majority rules based. Don't be sorry about it though. This is your country, learn how it works.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to wolfcannon)

RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... - 5/29/2009 5:20:35 PM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wolfcannon
then by your logic i should know the entire bible by heart english, hebrew and greek. sorry i dont, im a human being not a robot. actually i made that refernce to note i do check the 1611 king james against the greek and hebrew. im sorry you have a narrow view of life.

On the contrary. I have a very open view of life.
I do not 'expect' that people to be able to recite the bible back to front in all languages. I do prefere to hold discussions with people who know what they are talking about. Otherwise it becomes incredibly difficult to communicate/discuss. For example, you did not get the reference about Jesus.

It is with regret you felt the need to attempt to insult me with a passive nature. I hold no ill will. Only the desire for honestly.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to wolfcannon)

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