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RE: Service vs. favours - 5/30/2009 6:52:25 PM

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The buzz can come from different places. But one of the buzzes--the one that comes from the masochism component--comes from a mindset, and words, facial expressions, and tone are very important for this mindset. I do not require clothing or any specific activity

Ditto that. Unfortunately, though, I think it could be harder for a dominant to get her head around than something physical like foot-kissing or good old thwacking. They'd only understand after some careful communicating - during which they might be in danger of becoming friends. Poor you and me!

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(in reply to undergroundsea)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/30/2009 7:00:24 PM

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Sea, I was thinking about that reluctance when I wrote about asking versus telling. Even so, I do understand that it is difficult for many submissives to express their needs. Based upon what I've seen it can be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" issue, especially male submissives I think.

Which brings up, almost a whole other issue. Talking about communication, how to convey needs and expectactions. Telling the dominant person you need help in this area so as not to be seen as demanding. I think that is possibly, a big fear and struggle for submissives.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 5/30/2009 7:50:02 PM >

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to undergroundsea)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/30/2009 7:02:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GYPZYQUEEN

IN a D/s realtionship it is clearer...but I think a lot of problems come in temp. situations..or wanting to serve for sake of serving but encountering women who simply
hear 'service" and make use of it just because..

...Similar to the ones who say "on your knees" because you have said you are a sub..

I am not sure if this is clear...
I had a friend who was a service sub and invariably at munchs etc...when he said this he would hear
"well come and do my dishes tomorrow"
but with no idea..of the dynamic needed for him as well..

Thanks for your post.

I agree that an established, ongoing D/s relationship is different from a temporary or new relationship.

Yes, I see your point. Simply assuming the labels is not enough. There is something that makes reality the labels. The munch scenario you describe is a good example of a scenario at which I direct my comments.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to GYPZYQUEEN)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/30/2009 7:21:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Now if a submissive tells me that his biggest kink is to clean my kitchen, do you really really think that it is my job to wonder why it is so and to try and find out what his motivations are? Hell no! I am not a shrink, if he wants a shrink he should go to one and pay a shrink.

I do not suggest understanding or asking about the motivation in the role of a shrink but towards obtaining information that would be useful for the domme.

I think the two scenarios you describe are excellent examples of a functioning service relationship. You were somehow also contributing energy to the service relationship. In fact, what you did in those scenarios exceeds what might be done in other working scenarios. The scenarios at which I direct my comments are those where there is a misconception that the draw is in the motions of cleaning, and not in what the cleaning represents, or scenarios in which one does not return any energy.

Cheers,

Sea

Those 2 examples were sadly the only examples where so called service submissives WANTED to do service, I had plenty of offers where their idea of service would be being dressed up as a sissy maid with a duster and I should admire the way they were dressed without them actually doing anything else but pretend to be dusting (oh and they would have required me to be dressed up in full domme regalia and watching them) or guys who wanted to know in advance how many cane strokes they would get for breaking things (oh hell yeah, I could see where that was going, I soooo love a damaged house, excellent service)....

My point is that if you do offer a certain service, it is not the dommes job to find out about your motivation, but you should present your motivation honestly, if you expect something back in return, fair enough but SAY SO, I am not a mind reader and I am not asking for service, so if somebody is offering service, I don't want to 2nd guess the person and try to find out about the motivations.

I'm not prepared to play Russian roulette with service and rather rely on a cleaner than a sub who who gets off on the fantasy of being a service submissive but doesn't want to get his hands dirty and be the cause of anger and frustration for me. I collect old china and Victorian glasses, having those things broken "for punishment" is a great deal more costly than a reliable cleaner...

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Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to undergroundsea)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/30/2009 7:35:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Ditto that. Unfortunately, though, I think it could be harder for a dominant to get her head around than something physical like foot-kissing or good old thwacking. They'd only understand after some careful communicating - during which they might be in danger of becoming friends. Poor you and me!

No worries. I'll invite you to come teach as a guest instructor at Sea's Domme Training Academy described at the following URL:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_753442/mpage_1/key_academy/tm.htm#754035

We will teach these dommes everything they need to know. Of course, it won't work for us because then we won't know if they are doing what they are doing because of hearing it from us. But that's ok. We'll be martyrs for sake of education. Future generations will talk about us like we do today about, you know, famous teachers or something.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/30/2009 7:43:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
Telling the dominant person you need help in this area so as not to be seen asbdemanding

That's a great idea.

For me, pain play is often for sake of service. Thus, I am inclined to try to keep going and not safeword. Upon reflecting on an experience I had a couple of years ago, I realized that it is a good idea for me to convey this tendency to a domme because it requires greater attention to body language, state of skin, and the like.

Similarly, communicating this tendency to not say I want this done and that done is helpful for overall communication.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/30/2009 7:45:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Thank you for the response.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/30/2009 7:48:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I would love to clean your garage, Sea. I specialize in imposing order on chaos! But, if I do something like that Slavekal will revoke my DomlyDom card!

See now, i'm confused i thought you specialized in something else...(see post #79)

I'm a multitasker, Tulip!

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(in reply to lronitulstahp)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/31/2009 2:45:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Lady C, I am mortally wounded. I would also like to state I am being picked on.

Will a band aid do?

Not if its Bob Geldof, or tomorrow, I dont like Mondays.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/31/2009 4:11:24 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I had a thought earlier. I think I am the greatest service slave EVER!!!

I do all sorts of things for people without a thought of what I am going to get out of it, how they are going to repay me for my efforts, etc. I just do it because I care about them and enjoy seeing them happy. Silly me!

If only I could figure out how to clone myself......

I think the same way, so You are halfway there, all thats needed is to make me look a bit better.

Seriously though, I help because I like to be helpful, anything that may lead to, is a plus.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/31/2009 4:56:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Ditto that. Unfortunately, though, I think it could be harder for a dominant to get her head around than something physical like foot-kissing or good old thwacking. They'd only understand after some careful communicating - during which they might be in danger of becoming friends. Poor you and me!

No worries. I'll invite you to come teach as a guest instructor at Sea's Domme Training Academy described at the following URL:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_753442/mpage_1/key_academy/tm.htm#754035

We will teach these dommes everything they need to know. Of course, it won't work for us because then we won't know if they are doing what they are doing because of hearing it from us.

It's a damned shame, isn't it? But we're unlikely to get the school off the ground because, as you noted on that thread, every one of them will demand a waiver of fees.

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(in reply to undergroundsea)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/31/2009 10:51:17 AM

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Sorry, sea and peon, I guess I did get that confused!

Within an actual D/s relationship, after I've been dating the other person long enough to start establishing that kind of connection, after I've *invited* them to my home, and am actually doing some of the things they like, I think there is plenty of space for it to develop. The way that it is brought up also makes a big difference, as well. "I really love it when you do x," or even "When you do x, it really helps me get into the right headspace to do y," seems very respectful and reasonable, while "I'll do y if you do x" seems a lot more tit-for-tat. If I'm in a relationship with someone, I *want* him to be happy! I enjoy dressing up for him, though it won't necessarily happen every time.

sea, I don't tend to think of someone taking bondage or S/M as a service per se. I agree that submitting to unpleasant pain for someone else's pleasure can be hot! It is smart to let the Domme (or Top) know that you are coming at it from that headspace.

Service from a D/s headspace hasn't usually been a big part of my relationships, partly because I have had only D/s relationship in which I was a Domme, and also it the only one that was live-in. However, all of the men I've dated were perfectly willing to be helpful from a more vanilla headspace, in any of the things I asked of them. So, it's not at all that I want a service-oriented relationship without giving anything back. It's more that I find it pushy and a little confusing when guys contact me saying they want to do all these things for me, but at a point that is way too early in the relationship for me to have any chance of taking them up on their offer, and with not just strings attached, but practically anchor chains! I feel that if he genuinely wanted to serve *me* in particular, rather than any Domme interchangeably, he wouldn't be so desperate as to offer that kind of thing to someone he'd never met. I'm not the one asking, they're the ones who are offering.

Housebitch, I personally don't mind using "slave" as an endearment/pet name, to make a scene hotter, or if that is the address the other person prefers, but I wouldn't actually consider someone to be my slave, or me to be dominating them, until we had an emotional connection and were interacting that way. I wouldn't *want* someone I'd only known through the Internet, or had met once, coming to my house - it wouldn't feel safe. Just offering would come across as pushy, especially if he combined it with wanting to be naked or dressed in frillies, and doing kinky play as well. I can do casual play, but even then, I want to get to know the other person on at least a friendly basis first! Right now, I'm not particularly in the mood/market for casual play, whether S/M or service-oriented, instead, I prefer focusing on men who I'm exploring chemistry with for a relationship.

On a lighter note, I thought http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=866 was hilarious, and fit this thread rather nicely!

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/31/2009 10:56:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
It's a damned shame, isn't it? But we're unlikely to get the school off the ground because, as you noted on that thread, every one of them will demand a waiver of fees.

Simple - you allow male submissives to attend for a fee, thereby subsidising the Dommes! *giggles* Seriously, many Dommes are perfectly willing to pay for classes on D/s, if the teacher has appropriate credentials, and it is convenient. Also, many classes do allow people to attend for free, in exchange for volunteering (ie. setting up chairs/snacks/etc.).

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/31/2009 11:11:36 AM

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Before talk of the academy becomes too serious, that post was entirely tongue in cheek with a reference to these posts:

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

For new dommes wishing to expand their skills, there exists Sea's Domme Training Academy. Our approach emphasizes hands-on training. And we believe repetition is best. So we repeat each exercise multiple times--hands on, of course. To keep your training certification valid, we require refresher courses, the frequency of which depends on how long it takes the instructor to heal from the last training class. And we think a class reuinion every five years is not conducive to comraderie and alumni spirit we aim to instill. Therefore, our class reunions are held every four weeks. Here is the application form for admission to Sea's Domme Training Academy. We have stringent criteria to accept only the most dedicated of applicants. Please do not let this detailed criteria intimidate you.

quote:

Application for Sea's Domme Training Academy

Name:____________________________

Your application is now complete. Please review it carefully to ensure all information is in place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: jthorne
Oh oh oh, sign ME up! The application is so thorough, it'll weed out the ones who aren't serious!

I am glad the academy interests you. We have a very relaxed atmosphere. We hold class sitting on the floor--at least the instructor does. The students typically sit in plush lounge chairs. The students are encouraged to question and, even, mock the instructor's ideas. How can there be effective learning without debate? That said, respect is paramount at our facility. Our instructor will always address the students with a respectful title. We are very focused during class. For instance, if a student is thirsty, the instructor will immediately fetch a drink. We cannot have the disruption of students walking out of class for water.

We find this approach creates an environment very conducive for learning.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to Andalusite)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/31/2009 1:15:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Sorry, sea and peon, I guess I did get that confused!

Well, if they'd put some clothes on, we might be able to tell them apart.

(in reply to Andalusite)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/31/2009 3:13:36 PM

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Clothes are for milksops and namby-pambies, V. Sea and I are neither. Besides, even nude you could tell us apart: whereas Sea has an Abe Lincoln beard, my chin is as smooth as burnished alabaster.

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(in reply to Venatrix)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/31/2009 3:22:57 PM

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It wasn't your chins I was looking at.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/31/2009 3:26:51 PM

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"Chins"? Plural? Why, I oughtta . . . .

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(in reply to Venatrix)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/31/2009 3:46:53 PM

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Yes, plural. Chins. Yours and sea's; I assume you both each have one. You just can't take a compliment, can you? Fine. I'll go lust after someone else's back, then.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Service vs. favours - 5/31/2009 4:00:42 PM

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Awwwww, V, don't be like that! You're a woman and I'm a man. You're not supposed to compliment me!

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(in reply to Venatrix)

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