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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

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All i asked was that She wear a hot pair of shoes while i was there (which i had bought Her), refer to me as 'slave', and allow me to kiss Her feet as a reward when She felt it was warrented.

Personally to me, this isn't a service slave...this is a service bottom...ie...tit for tat. I'll do this if you do that and we'll both get what we want out of the deal.

...but that's my view.

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ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Granted, I have zero experience with submissive men, aside from having a few as friends/aquaintances, but I really don't think there is much difference in "return for effort" between men and women. I've yet to meet a submissive/slave woman, that was solely service oriented, without concern for her own gratification of some sort.

Not saying these people do not exist, just saying I've yet to know one.

That is becuase you have never been to Detroit.

{hugs the sweet one!}

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

True......not one of the great American cities I've ever had on my list of "must see places".

Yea well I can't fault yea there. It is after all Detroit.

I've been thinking about this thread now that I am relaxing at home and have a clearer head. Aside from the guys that write me, ignoring or hoping.....the sexual preference that is quite clearly listed on my profile. Somehow thinking that I will still love the idea of ramming a big strapon up their arse after they've mowed my yard, or that their tongue is my idea of service.....aside from that stupidity. Any woman that contacts me as a service slave, that thinks it will always be only, all about me, nothing kinky at all, unless we've pre-agreed, is a moron.

Somewhere in there is a line, and the bugger of it is, it's hard to define sometimes. But it definitely exists. I am not selfish enough to believe that someone will wish to spend the rest of their life behaving as a scullery maid in my home. I doubt I would want that. It is the level of expectation, that feeling that they would only be doing it to manipulate me to serving their kink.

Maybe it is just my issue, something I should work on that I am unaware of, but I hate hate HATE feeling manipulated. Bottom line, I am not going to serve someone's kink. I do not NEED someone else to do my dishes or mow my yard. They will do it because they WANT to make me happier, they WANT to make my life easier. Without any manipulative expectation of me standing over them in a rubber catsuit or whatever. THAT would not make my life easier. I may as well do it myself if that were the case.

It's not that there wouldn't be fun kinky things. That is not my point. Depending upon the person and our dynamic, there may be an awful lot of fun kinky activities. But placing that expectation above the service is like putting the cart before the horse. At least for me. I don't like command performances. If that's what people want, then I may as well become a pro dominatrix. Because having those expectations is how that would make me feel.

I want someone that serves me because they want to serve ME, not their kink. And I want the person/people that serves me, to be someone I want around, that I want to spend time with, and if we are both lucky, someone that creates the hunger in me to do mutually interesting kinky things with. It has to be mutually satisfying, but when someone comes to me with demands and expectations, it turns it into a business deal and that is not satisfying to me.  

Good post.

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ORIGINAL: GYPZYQUEEN

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ORIGINAL: undergroundsea


. I simply say that it is important to understand the motivation and touch that motivation for it to sustain. After having understood the motivation, I do not say that the domme must feed that motivation. It is then for her to decide how she feels about that motivation and whether the situation is a compatible one.

**THIS point as well as the one you made about thinking that if a service sub says they are one then they should just do things and that is enough
are VERY GOOD POINTS...INDEED

A Domme must see what DRIVES the submission or it becomes misuse of consensual use..
IN a D/s realtionship it is clearer...but I think a lot of problems come in  temp. situations..or wanting to serve for sake of serving but encountering women who simply
hear 'service" and make use of it just because..
 
...Similar to the ones who say "on your knees" because you have said you are a sub..
 
I am not sure if this is clear...
I had a friend who was a service sub and invariably at munchs etc...when he said this he would hear
"well come and do my dishes tomorrow"
but with no idea..of the dynamic needed for him as well..
 
GQ
 

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

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ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
If I fly to another city to meet someone off the internet the first time, I expect ONE THING.......to meet them. Period. If someone flies here to meet me they are guaranteed ONE THING........to meet me.

Anyone that expects anything more is an idiot.

Sure, I share your philosophy that the question about compatibility and chemistry remains open until and even after the first meeting. For that reason, I prefer to and have had most of my D/s introductions occur organically from in-person scenarios. I won't say never but I am unlikely to fly to serve someone whom I have not had a chance to meet in person.

Still, I use that example to convey a point, which is that some of the scenarios we are discussing are based only or primarily on a D/s dynamic and reasoning that we apply to vanilla situations does not fully apply to these scenarios. To rephrase my example then for a scenario where you have met the person, I expect you are unlikely to fly to another city to spend a weekend sanding and painting an arbor amongst other chores simply to be nice and helpful to this person. If the scenario lies outside what one might encounter in everyday social life, the motivations likely lie outside everyday social motivations, and I think it is important to understand or address these motivations.

Cheers,

Sea

Sea, I understand what you are saying. The thing is, I might. Spending time with someone doing something like that would be a great way to get a good idea of what that person is like. In addition, even though my goal is a M/s relationship, when first meeting someone I do not meet them with M/s expectations. I am actually squicked out if that is the perceived focus of discussions about meeting.

The reality is that I wouldn't ask someone, I didn't know, to come to my house to do something like that. Number one, I don't know that I want them there! My home is my sanctuary and not everyone gets to visit. Number two, if I did feel comfortable having them here, and they expressed an interest in doing something like deck renovation and did not express any expectation of reciprocation, they would be expected to renovate the deck.......nothing else. I would feel deceived and that they were trying to manipulate me by bringing that up, AFTER the fact.

Personally, I don't have any interest in service only, regardless of how much I joke about it. No emotional attachment just does not trip my trigger. I communicate that. I like to feel some sort of connection and foundation of trust before I even invite them out here. At that point, we should have some sort of relationship beginning, an idea of what the dynamic might be.

I really think the biggest key, as always, is communication. Both parties need to communicate their expectations. Anyone that doesn't communicate, and just assumes, is setting themself up for failure and disappointment. I have a feeling, and I could be wrong, that many people want the D/s activity so badly, they convince themselves they are a service submissive in hopes that the service gets them the D/s play. They eagerly offer their services, hoping and banking on the D/s as a reward without communicating their hopes. Then, when they do not get their "reward" they get angry and feel used.

There is nothing wrong with service for play, IF both parties are in agreement of the mutual expectations. It simply must be communicated and not assumed.

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ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

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ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Now if a submissive tells me that his biggest kink is to clean my kitchen, do you really really think that it is my job to wonder why it is so and to try and find out what his motivations are? Hell no! I am not a shrink, if he wants a shrink he should go to one and pay a shrink.

I do not suggest understanding or asking about the motivation in the role of a shrink but towards obtaining information that would be useful for the domme.

I think the two scenarios you describe are excellent examples of a functioning service relationship. You were somehow also contributing energy to the service relationship. In fact, what you did in those scenarios exceeds what might be done in other working scenarios. The scenarios at which I direct my comments are those where there is a misconception that the draw is in the motions of cleaning, and not in what the cleaning represents, or scenarios in which one does not return any energy.

Cheers,

Sea

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ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Sorry, sea and peon, I guess I did get that confused!

Within an actual D/s relationship, after I've been dating the other person long enough to start establishing that kind of connection, after I've *invited* them to my home, and am actually doing some of the things they like, I think there is plenty of space for it to develop. The way that it is brought up also makes a big difference, as well. "I really love it when you do x," or even "When you do x, it really helps me get into the right headspace to do y," seems very respectful and reasonable, while "I'll do y if you do x" seems a lot more tit-for-tat. If I'm in a relationship with someone, I *want* him to be happy! I enjoy dressing up for him, though it won't necessarily happen every time.

sea, I don't tend to think of someone taking bondage or S/M as a service per se. I agree that submitting to unpleasant pain for someone else's pleasure can be hot! It is smart to let the Domme (or Top) know that you are coming at it from that headspace. Service from a D/s headspace hasn't usually been a big part of my relationships, partly because I have had only D/s relationship in which I was a Domme, and also it the only one that was live-in. However, all of the men I've dated were perfectly willing to be helpful from a more vanilla headspace, in any of the things I asked of them. So, it's not at all that I want a service-oriented relationship without giving anything back. It's more that I find it pushy and a little confusing when guys contact me saying they want to do all these things for me, but at a point that is way too early in the relationship for me to have any chance of taking them up on their offer, and with not just strings attached, but practically anchor chains! I feel that if he genuinely wanted to serve *me* in particular, rather than any Domme interchangeably, he wouldn't be so desperate as to offer that kind of thing to someone he'd never met. I'm not the one asking, they're the ones who are offering.

Housebitch, I personally don't mind using "slave" as an endearment/pet name, to make a scene hotter, or if that is the address the other person prefers, but I wouldn't actually consider someone to be my slave, or me to be dominating them, until we had an emotional connection and were interacting that way. I wouldn't *want* someone I'd only known through the Internet, or had met once, coming to my house - it wouldn't feel safe. Just offering would come across as pushy, especially if he combined it with wanting to be naked or dressed in frillies, and doing kinky play as well. I can do casual play, but even then, I want to get to know the other person on at least a friendly basis first! Right now, I'm not particularly in the mood/market for casual play, whether S/M or service-oriented, instead, I prefer focusing on men who I'm exploring chemistry with for a relationship.

On a lighter note, I thought http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=866 was hilarious, and fit this thread rather nicely!

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ORIGINAL: housebitch
Do those that think that the term "service-sub" should not be motivated in any way  by them actually believe that "service-subs" masterbate while at home doing there own dishes?  i mean, i have heard it said on here (by whom, i forget) that the act itself should be enough- do they think that the 'service-sub' goes home and cleans his own garage and has an orgasm whiloe he does it??

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ORIGINAL: housebitch
Here is a funny thought- imagine a bunch of Dom males complaining on a forum: "Dammit, i had this good-looking female contact me online and she wants to cook for me, clean my house, detail my car, and do my grocery shopping (she will pay for them too) and she had the audacity to ask me to wear a tight tee-shirt and allow her to suck my c*** afterward as a 'reward'!!" ah, the differences between the sexes...

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ORIGINAL: housebitch
Women - even most of those on here - want a man that dates them, gets to know them as a person, loves them, marries them, and 'serves' them because they love & care about them. nothing wrong with that. And their are a lot of men that want the same thing. But there are also a lot of men that just want a beautiful woman that uses them, treats them like dirt, bosses them around, laughs in their face about how 'pathetic' they are- w/o dating them, knowing anything about them, or getting emotionally connected.

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ORIGINAL: Andalusite

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ORIGINAL: housebitch
Do those that think that the term "service-sub" should not be motivated in any way  by them actually believe that "service-subs" masterbate while at home doing there own dishes?  i mean, i have heard it said on here (by whom, i forget) that the act itself should be enough- do they think that the 'service-sub' goes home and cleans his own garage and has an orgasm whiloe he does it??

Most women don't want to know that some guy they aren't dating, aren't attracted to, etc. is masturbating while fantasising about them. It creeps them out, and is very likely to make them lose any interest they might otherwise have had.

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ORIGINAL: housebitch
Women - even most of those on here - want a man that dates them, gets to know them as a person, loves them, marries them, and 'serves' them because they love & care about them. nothing wrong with that. And their are a lot of men that want the same thing. But there are also a lot of men that just want a beautiful woman that uses them, treats them like dirt, bosses them around, laughs in their face about how 'pathetic' they are- w/o dating them, knowing anything about them, or getting emotionally connected.

I've done some casual play before, but not in my home with someone I don't know. Even when I did casual play, I wasn't interested in humiliation or dating someone who I thought was pathetic.

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ORIGINAL: Andalusite
I'm just saying that if he's not willing to get to know a potential Domme as a person first, and to do things because he's attracted to her, wants her life to be easier, etc

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ORIGINAL: Aakasha
If you LIKE the woman you are serving, you should enjoy the service submission by the way she chooses to embrace and celebrate the empowerment. 

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I know I am not like these other people, though. It is in my heart, not my dick.

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I get my kicks from service... to see Your Soul. Why do you think the way you do, why do you behave in that way. What makes you the interesting person you are? Why do you react in that manner? My personal currency is Human Interaction with a bright Individual so I may become enlightened and more experienced.

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ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic
a house is a sacred place. All of the knicknacks, books, the way they have their furniture arranged, the plants, paintings, what kind of plates they have, if their are scratches on said plates... can tell me many things about a person. Plus if they decide to converse with me that allows me to see their soul as well. Plus body language, inflection, intonation, eye movement, gestures. Of course I may get distracted if who I am serving speaks with me.

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As for the Butler outfit... I can do that on my own time and find enjoyment in it. With no one around. I like dressing all snazzy like that.

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 I do not mean to put down other people's motivations for why they serve but if it is for the sake of going home to masturbate or hoping to get some sort of play other than the servitude then who is serving who? I do not expect play. I expect to get the house cleaned in a manner set forth by the one who commands it.