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RE: Ownership is not ownership, unless it is forever... - 2/19/2006 1:40:00 PM

LATEXBABY64

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ownership... is a wide word ownership of the heart mind ? humm i do think you can truely never own someone we are all free spirits
its by givng our self to someone that we are attrached to or love with our heart and mine that we are owned . Married people are suppose to be owned by each other. but if their heart and mind are not there they just empty ships on the sea with no port.
most people look to others to make choices for them cauase they feel they are not capable of managing life on their
when you give up the ablity to decide for yourself you give up the ablity of what makes you you
chk it out kidos educate your self for a balanced life emothional phyically learn to give to those that give back on all levels
not rocket science
later gators

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RE: Ownership is not ownership, unless it is forever... - 2/19/2006 1:43:58 PM

IronBear

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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

ownership... is a wide word ownership of the heart mind ? humm i do think you can truely never own someone we are all free spirits
its by givng our self to someone that we are attrached to or love with our heart and mine that we are owned . Married people are suppose to be owned by each other. but if their heart and mind are not there they just empty ships on the sea with no port.
most people look to others to make choices for them cauase they feel they are not capable of managing life on their
when you give up the ablity to decide for yourself you give up the ablity of what makes you you
chk it out kidos educate your self for a balanced life emothional phyically learn to give to those that give back on all levels
not rocket science
later gators

Of couse in doing so you would be demolishing the whole Master/slave relationship.. Perhaps you'd rather have a BDSM scene without slaves owned my their Masters and just have Dominants with negotiated limited control over their submissives???? Just a question with no fire...

It's all in the game and how you play it.............

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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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RE: Ownership is not ownership, unless it is forever... - 2/19/2006 4:07:25 PM

MTslave

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Joined: 12/15/2005
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I haven't been around much in many days. Life seems to get busy just when one wishes it would slow down. I can not say that I've read every reply to this thread but I've read a lot of them. The only thing I wish to express is my own thought and opinion about my own mind in my own relationship.

Master and I have had many fabulous discussions on... who owns who. We've both seen it on so many message boards where the majority that post believe the submissive or slave is 'in control' or the 'owner'. My own thought is that this is not so. I can only explain by giving an example.

If I was in a building, that was burning, and my Master was there at the doorway, telling me not to move. I would not move. I would wait until his voice came to me saying 'ok move now'. I trust him so much to know he would never harm me in such a way. This has nothing to do with love and romance, nothing to do with kinky play time, nothing to do with legalitites, with contracts, or even the physical presence of a collar around my neck. This has everything to do with the fact that at some point in my life, I had given him my pledge of submission. I gave to him the power to know what was in my best interest and to exercise that right. This did not happen over night and is always changing in some form or way. The more we grow together, grow older, grow wiser, grow educated, grow up... the more life around us changes and so must we.

Does this mean that he is owned by me? Or I by him? It's a word.... ownership... it can be defined and redefined until we are all long dead in the ground. I personally am not going to lose sleep over it I know who I am... I know what I am to him... and I know... I know in MY heart in MY soul in MY mind who owns who by MY defination. Isn't that what this is all about anyway. To quote my favorite movie "they are not so much rules as.....guidelines"

owned, owner, delusional, right, wrong, indifferent
it doesn't matter to me cause I'm very very happy being

the humble
MTs slave

< Message edited by MTslave -- 2/19/2006 4:09:04 PM >

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RE: Ownership is not ownership, unless it is forever... - 2/20/2006 9:48:52 AM

kyraofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
My father used to say that very thing. He used to add that there is no such word as Can't. All he would accept from any body was "I am unable to do this at this time."

My first grade teacher used to say "can't never could"; it is a line I still use today and what I most remember from that time. One of my favorite books is "Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda" and discusses how these three words can be mentally detrimental.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing
I like words. *grins* I will often say something like "I don't understand how it will be possible for me to do that. I'm happy to listen to your suggestions if you know of a way that that can be done without screwing up all our lives." *LOL* Of course, as a writer/teacher/minister/lecturer, I live by the philosophy "why use one word, when six are so much prettier." *laughs*

Lady Zephyr

*smiles* As someone trained in a hard science and technical writing, I was alway told why use six words when one will do? But I do appreciate both styles.

kyra

< Message edited by kyraofMists -- 2/20/2006 9:49:41 AM >

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RE: Ownership is not ownership, unless it is forever... - 2/20/2006 10:15:41 AM

kyraofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DestinyCommander

Just about the only thing you cannot do to a person (with their consent), legally, is kill them. So if I can own something I can't even decorate to my desires, you certainly can own something in which your only restrictions are "not killing" and "a time limit".

-- Des

Legally in many states and Canada, that is not the case. In many places the law does not recognize a person consenting to being harmed. The interpretation of harm will vary from person to person, but much of what we do in play is not legal whether a person consents to it or not. The application of this will most likely be very subjective and inconsistent.

Knight's kyra

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RE: Ownership is not ownership, unless it is forever... - 2/20/2006 11:29:24 AM

KittenWithaTwist

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If you purchase a car under a lease, it means that you may only drive and take care of that car for a certain contracted period of time. If you buy that same car, make the payments, take care of it, and it blows up or you run it into a tree, you still had the intent to own it for a long period (where there was no contract prohibiting it's ownership after a period of time).

If you own a submissive and she dies, you still had the intent of ownership for a more than temporary period of time.

Not the same thing-at any rate.

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RE: Ownership is not ownership, unless it is forever... - 2/20/2006 11:31:16 AM

LATEXBABY64

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this is true this is a bad thing heres why lets see a sub or dom or domme gets mad or even jealous and says that person hurt me yadda yadda it was not consentual as you can see this can come to a great dilema yep check it out :)

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RE: Ownership is not ownership, unless it is forever... - 2/20/2006 11:41:17 AM

KittenWithaTwist

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quote:

And here is the real crux of the issue, no? I couldn't care less about owning the heart and mind, I want to own the slave. Your heart and mind ownership is very romantic, and works for a great many people, but it does not allow for my kind of ownership...why?

Actually, it seems you want to own the body. Owning the slave, entirely, would encompass all that the slave is--from their beliefs and ideas, to their emotional and mental state, right down to the genitals between their legs. If you wish to own a body, then own a body. But owning a slave, at least in my opinion, includes more than owning arms, legs, a head, and a butt.

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RE: Ownership is not ownership, unless it is forever... - 2/20/2006 12:13:32 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

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From: Rochester, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist
But owning a slave, at least in my opinion, includes more than owning arms, legs, a head, and a butt.

Here is a perfect example of what I am talking about in my OP. I completely allow for your type of "slave", why can't you allow for mine?

I suppose the pre-Civil War south plantation owners just owned bodies...but they called them slaves, and that is the kind of slavery I choose to practice.

I am not trying to bash...really just to understand. Why can't my "owning a body" be "owning a slave" to you? Why must (in your opinion) "owing a slave" "encompass all that a slave is" without allowing for variation?

Just curious...

Taggard

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RE: Ownership is not ownership, unless it is forever... - 2/20/2006 12:16:46 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

I suppose the pre-Civil War south plantation owners just owned bodies...but they called them slaves, and that is the kind of slavery I choose to practice.

mmmmmmmmmm so you want to practice Non-Consensual slavery?

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RE: Ownership is not ownership, unless it is forever... - 2/20/2006 3:38:49 PM

PlayfulOne

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Taggard,

Your are right. However you and your slave conduct your ownership is between the two (or more) of you and as a group we should welcome you and not try and correct you or anyone else. There have been too many here on both sides guilty of unbecoming behavior.

We each run our house as we see fit and should find more common ground to support one another rather than arguing over what differences there may be.

K

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RE: Ownership is not ownership, unless it is forever... - 2/20/2006 5:24:53 PM

LadiesBladewing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

mmmmmmmmmm so you want to practice Non-Consensual slavery?

KoM, I am going to give the benefit of the doubt, and say that you were being unintentionally obtuse here.

He -isn't- talking about non-consentual slavery. He is talking about owning a body, set to whatever he chooses to set that body to do, until he doesn't want it any more and chooses to send that body on to something else.. maybe thru release, maybe thru trade... but the point is that what he was talking about doesn't have -anything- to do with consentuality. It has to do with slavery that is marked by ownership that doesn't include romance, or getting into the slave's head, or anything more than just owning property, using it as one sees fit, and then letting it go when one doesn't desire it any longer. In our day and age, it is common sense that the individuals who entered into such an agreement would have to have consented to it, and I sincerely doubt that Taggard is foolish enough to just go scoop a few girls off the sidewalk and try to get what he wants that way.

There are plenty of individuals out there who would be perfectly happy in this kind of situation. I've had the pleasure of having the opportunity to spend some time with a few (and an amazing learning experience). Many times, these people serve out of the sheer joy of serving -- it doesn't matter who they serve, as long as someone wants their service. They're satisfied in knowing that they'll serve this person as long as it suits him or her, and then they'll be "put to the block" when the current Owner loses interest. Even the idea that the owner might lose interest in them and pass them along doesn't bother these amazing individuals. They find it one big adventure to learn quickly so that they'll have a chance to serve for at least a little while, work hard to stay interesting, and then do it again when they find themselves passed on. I was willing to accept that this might be my lot, since the man who first brought me to House Bladewing had this philosophy -- but it turns out that I'm such a flight of wind or so chameleon-like that everyone kept me around to see what I'd do and where I'd blow next. *laughs* (Get your minds out of the gutters this very minute! *LOL*)

Taggard, enjoy yourself. What does it matter whether anyone else accepts your beliefs or not, as long as -you- accept them, and understand yourself enough to know what you want and how you want it -- and are able to explain that in a way that the people who get involved with you can make informed choices.

Lady Zephyr

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"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
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RE: Ownership is not ownership, unless it is forever... - 2/20/2006 9:26:49 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

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From: Rochester, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing

Taggard, enjoy yourself. What does it matter whether anyone else accepts your beliefs or not, as long as -you- accept them, and understand yourself enough to know what you want and how you want it -- and are able to explain that in a way that the people who get involved with you can make informed choices.

Madam,

I truly thank you for your kind words, and your generous spirit. You have, of course, nailed my desires (and the desires of those who serve me) right square on the head. It really doesn't matter to me if anyone accepts my beliefs...I hope you have figured out by now that I am no shy wallflower who needs global acceptance. Part of me likes to stir the pot and part of me really wants to understand those who can not accept what I do when so much of what they do is not accepted by the vast majority of the folks in their own back yard.

Taggard

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My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

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RE: Ownership is not ownership, unless it is forever... - 2/21/2006 7:52:17 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

There are plenty of individuals out there who would be perfectly happy in this kind of situation. I've had the pleasure of having the opportunity to spend some time with a few (and an amazing learning experience). Many times, these people serve out of the sheer joy of serving -- it doesn't matter who they serve, as long as someone wants their service. They're satisfied in knowing that they'll serve this person as long as it suits him or her, and then they'll be "put to the block" when the current Owner loses interest. Even the idea that the owner might lose interest in them and pass them along doesn't bother these amazing individuals. They find it one big adventure to learn quickly so that they'll have a chance to serve for at least a little while, work hard to stay interesting, and then do it again when they find themselves passed on.

this slave has also had the incredible fortune of meeting and interacting with the kind of folk you describe above, Lady Zephyr...they are indeed amazing individuals!!!

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