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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 5:08:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Just saw this on Drudge - Obama doesn't even know what's in the bill...

Obama Admits He’s “Not Familiar” With House Bill

He demands Congress rush it through and he doesn't even know whats in it himself!

\

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Obama demands Congress move quickly on healthcare reform

Reporting from Washington -- President Obama, calling the need for healthcare reform "urgent" and "indisputable," said today that it is not his own political fortune that is at stake, but rather the health of the nation's economy.

"The need for reform is urgent, and it is indisputable," the president said, in an appearance at the Children's National Medical Center.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama-healthcare21-2009jul21,0,318541.story

I find it just a tad curious that I couldn't find anything contained within the story that suggests President Obam is prepared to sign a bill he knows nothing about.....what I did get out of the story was an inpatient President who is asking Congress to submit some plan for his signature.....or his veto...whatever the case may be.
Are you suggesting that prior to the bill coming out of congress the President should know all the minutia of the bill?
Just another one of your alarmist posts sanity...a lot of smoke,no actual fire!!!!!!

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(in reply to Sanity)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 5:08:32 PM

Brain

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President Obama Explains The Republican’s Idea Of Fixing Health Care…Political Game Playing

President Obama continues the offensive on the healthcare issue. He speaks from the Children's hospital. He also talks about the infamous "Waterloo" statement that was made by Republicans.
Watch
http://earth2obama.org/?p=997

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 5:13:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

they may be deciding how much THEY will cover, you are still the one making the decision about what YOU are willing to pay for.

wrong again. You can work anywhere you want, and if you dont like the health care they provide you can supplement it yourself.

So Willbeur, essentially what you are saying is the insurance companies can refuse treatment, even though you have been a faithful customer and paid premiums for years, and if the covered party doesn't like it they can pay themselves.

But if they could afford to pay for their own treatments why would they have insurance? And if they can't afford to pay, what then?

And can people really work anywhere they want? Are jobs that plentiful?

Considering most companies are cutting back on their health plans, meaning the employee pays more, where are most people going to find the extra money for supplemental coverage?

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 7/21/2009 5:18:27 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 5:23:59 PM

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Many states already have provisions for um health care. Everytime I hear its about the um's... I have to laugh.

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 5:26:11 PM

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response to Sanity(welcome back btw)

ok I listened to the clip of the conference call. The point in question was about Section 102 of the House health legislation would outlaw private insurance. He asked: “Is this true? Will people be able to keep their insurance and will insurers be able to write new policies even though H.R. 3200 is passed?” President Obama replied: “You know, I have to say that I am not familiar with the provision you are talking about.
the guy is on a conference call taking all sorts of questions and hes not familiar with one section of a huge bill???
Try listening to the actual clip...Only the heritage org, and drudge could come up with it as not knowing anything about the bill.Faux will also grab it, no doubt.
Sorry this isnt proof of anything, cept he has way to much on his plate and yes that is an issue

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 5:28:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

they may be deciding how much THEY will cover, you are still the one making the decision about what YOU are willing to pay for.

wrong again. You can work anywhere you want, and if you dont like the health care they provide you can supplement it yourself.

So Willbeur, essentially what you are saying is the insurance companies can refuse treatment, even though you have been a faithful customer and paid premiums for years, and if the covered party doesn't like it they can pay themselves. If the premium you paid covered the treatment you want, they cant refuse treatment. If you didnt pay for it through insurance, pay for it yourself or dont get it.

But if they could afford to pay for their own treatments why would they have insurance? Most of health care shouldnt be "insured". All "insuring" routine medical treatment does is add administrative costs. For big ticket items, even the wealthy would want coverage, just like they have auto insurace with high deductibles and life insurance. And if they can't afford to pay, what then? If who cant afford to pay for what? Clarify please.

And can people really work anywhere they want? Are jobs that plentiful? Nothing to do with the issue.

Considering most companies are cutting back on their health plans, meaning the employee pays more, where are most people going to find the extra money for supplemental coverage? Supplemental coverage is very inexpensive.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 5:33:28 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Many states already have provisions for um health care. Everytime I hear its about the um's... I have to laugh.

Except in many cases, the health care programs for children are increasingly underfunded. Here in Minnesota, over a billion dollars have been sliced out of the Health and Human Services budget within the last year, and a lot of that money will come directly out of programs that benefit low income children.

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 5:41:37 PM

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I believe that Panda. It will be like when this ten years is up and the states have to cover what the federal government covered. Some things like this happened in Ca. and people would go to Ca. to get what they couldn't get in the state they lived in. It was often seen on welfare rolls where people couldn't get much in one state and went to the next one over, lived there for whatever time was needed to be determined a resident and went on those welfare rolls. They created the time frame to be a resident because of this flight to get more benefits in other states to start with, but I don't think it helped all that much.

All I know is that when I left Colorado they were still maintaining the health care for um's and here in Missouri it seems to be okay too, but I am sure lots of things will change.

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 5:43:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Many states already have provisions for um health care. Everytime I hear its about the um's... I have to laugh.

Huh?

Where did I say that?

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 5:51:10 PM

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No where that I read... I just post to the thread for the most part.

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 6:06:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

If the premium you paid covered the treatment you want, they cant refuse treatment. If you didnt pay for it through insurance, pay for it yourself or dont get it.

Of course they can refuse treatment. What world have you been living in? There are a constant barrage of lawsuits against insurance companies for trying to claim certain procedures are not in the bounds of coverage or trying to escape payment on technicalities.

I was in an accident two years ago and the hospital kept me for two days for tests and observation. Anthem BC/BS denied the claim saying I should have received outpatient treatment only. It never went so far as taking it to court but I had to spend months fighting the issue, getting doctor's statements, accident reports etc..

quote:

Most of health care shouldnt be "insured". All "insuring" routine medical treatment does is add administrative costs.

Well that seems to go against the advice of most medical professionals that preventive health care would be far more cost-efficient in the long run by being able to diagnose conditions before they develop into severe illnesses.

It also goes against studies that suggest the primary reason for not receiving regular, routine check-ups is cost to those without insurance and to those with high deductibles.

quote:

Supplemental coverage is very inexpensive.

For who? You? What about the people that are already barely making ends meet, they have their premiums raised on their company's health plan and then they are somehow going to find yet more money for supplemental coverage?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 6:17:05 PM

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Just an observation here,but it seems to me a safe bet to say that most of those coming down against reform are in the main ...covered and happy with their coverage...in addition they seem not to care about, or they minimise the difficulties faced by,those without coverage....Perhaps narrow self interest
Now on the other side of the debate....are those that seem to be a little bit more concerned about the 47 million uninsured.....I wonder of these posters...how many of them have coverage and are basically satisfied that their own medical needs are seen to.....Yet they still support reform.....Perhaps a case of enlightened self interest?
Curious, heh!

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 6:20:01 PM

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I'm not insured and haven't been for many, many years. They wouldn't touch me for a million dollars a year! I got tired of them laughing when I tried... oh well, been laughed at before.

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 6:23:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

If the premium you paid covered the treatment you want, they cant refuse treatment. If you didnt pay for it through insurance, pay for it yourself or dont get it.

Of course they can refuse treatment. What world have you been living in? There are a constant barrage of lawsuits against insurance companies for trying to claim certain procedures are not in the bounds of coverage or trying to escape payment on technicalities. media bullshit because it makes news. There is no "constant barrage" and audits show that insurers overpay more than they underpay. They do have a right to enforce contracts, ya know?

I was in an accident two years ago and the hospital kept me for two days for tests and observation. Anthem BC/BS denied the claim saying I should have received outpatient treatment only. It never went so far as taking it to court but I had to spend months fighting the issue, getting doctor's statements, accident reports etc.. If you and your docs followed proper procedures then the bills eventually got paid. Its unfortunate if some low level administrator had no basis for the challenge but do you think it would better under a government plan? ROFLMFAO.

quote:

Most of health care shouldnt be "insured". All "insuring" routine medical treatment does is add administrative costs.

Well that seems to go against the advice of most medical professionals that preventive health care would be far more cost-efficient in the long run by being able to diagnose conditions before they develop into severe illnesses. The issue isnt whether its a good idea or not, the issue is people dont do it, whether its paid for or not.

It also goes against studies that suggest the primary reason for not receiving regular, routine check-ups is cost to those without insurance and to those with high deductibles. so insurance is to blame for something that isnt appropriate to insure in the first place???? Do you buy insurance for an oil change? For cutting your lawn? For painting your house?

quote:

Supplemental coverage is very inexpensive.

For who? You? What about the people that are already barely making ends meet, they have their premiums raised on their company's health plan and then they are somehow going to find yet more money for supplemental coverage? Why should someone else pay for their inability to earn more money or inability to budget what they have?

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 6:33:48 PM

Brain

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The Right-Wing Media, the Voices of the GOP, in Overdrive to Kill Health Care »

Rush, Hannity, Kristol, Ingram...these people are just out-of-control. And, while it goes without saying that they're lying, it's still shocking to hear just how far they go. They will say anything to protect the status quo: call the President a communist, the destroyer of capitalism, warn Americans that they will not be able to see a doctor in the time of need.

In desperation they are throwing everything at health care reform but the facts. The corporate toadies are feeling cornered, panic-stricken; they may have to contribute to a national health care option and give back Bush’s tax breaks. Will this be the bitter pill that ends corporate welfare?

Read Full Story at americablog.com
http://www.americablog.com/2009/07/right-wing-media-voices-of-gop-in.html

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 6:38:54 PM

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well I know that for me and a lot of canadians and brits we are used to having what we have, and cant understand why America doesnt have something that covers everyone. To read, see and know people who are suffering from lack of decent coverage and having to worry about bills in the thousands is to me..appaling.
Wether its self interest, selfishness or ignorance of what others go thru, I dunno.I dont spose I will ever figure it out.
To think that half the population of the UK and Canada put together(total94 million est) have no health care coverage and are to blame for their own "inability to earn more money or inability to budget what they have" is frankly sickening
Lucy

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RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 6:55:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

well I know that for me and a lot of canadians and brits we are used to having what we have, and cant understand why America doesnt have something that covers everyone. To read, see and know people who are suffering from lack of decent coverage and having to worry about bills in the thousands is to me..appaling.
Wether its self interest, selfishness or ignorance of what others go thru, I dunno.I dont spose I will ever figure it out.
To think that half the population of the UK and Canada put together(total94 million est) have no health care coverage and are to blame for their own "inability to earn more money or inability to budget what they have" is frankly sickening
Lucy

And to me the expectation that those with the ability to provide for themselves should receive handouts is frankly frightening.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 6:56:47 PM

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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

The Right-Wing Media, the Voices of the GOP, in Overdrive to Kill Health Care »

Rush, Hannity, Kristol, Ingram...these people are just out-of-control. And, while it goes without saying that they're lying, it's still shocking to hear just how far they go. They will say anything to protect the status quo: call the President a communist, the destroyer of capitalism, warn Americans that they will not be able to see a doctor in the time of need.

In desperation they are throwing everything at health care reform but the facts. The corporate toadies are feeling cornered, panic-stricken; they may have to contribute to a national health care option and give back Bush’s tax breaks. Will this be the bitter pill that ends corporate welfare?

Read Full Story at americablog.com
http://www.americablog.com/2009/07/right-wing-media-voices-of-gop-in.html

"It goes without saying that they are lying". Even this board's penchant for ad hominen isn't quite that bad....close, but not quite.

BTW, notice how much the stock market likes the prospect of pulling in the reins on Obama's spending?

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 7/21/2009 6:57:58 PM >

(in reply to Brain)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 6:59:10 PM

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Amusing to see basic medical coverage referred to as a handout....priceless shit you post ,just priceless.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

RE: HEALTH CARE - 7/21/2009 7:53:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

media bullshit because it makes news. There is no "constant barrage" and audits show that insurers overpay more than they underpay. They do have a right to enforce contracts, ya know?

I believe the "media bullshit" you are referring to is called Fox News, which tells you that all other news is part of the evil liberal media.

And since you are so averse to providing any references for your claims I thought I would help out.

These are just the top of the list of almost 40,000 entries if you do a search on insurance lawsuits for refusing to pay for treatments.

Autism patients' treatment is denied illegally, group says
In a lawsuit, Consumer Watchdog, a Santa Monica group that monitors insurance practices, is asking a judge to order the Department of Managed Health Care to require insurers to provide autistic members with the services their physicians have ordered.

Schwarzenegger Administration Sued for Allowing Health Insurance
Breaking news — July 01, 2009Schwarzenegger Administration Sued for Allowing Health Insurance Companies to Deny Autism Care

Insurers' Refusal To Cover Eating Disorders Prompts Lawsuits

New Ways to Force Insurance Companies to Play by the Rules

Recent developments in health insurance, lawsuits against private ...Across the country, patients are filing lawsuits against insurance companies for canceling health insurance policies and refusing to pay medical bills

JustHealth | Montana woman wins $5.3 million bad-faith insurance ...
The company's refusal to pay the medical bills delayed and interfered with Chilcote's medical treatment, according to the lawsuit.

quote:

If you and your docs followed proper procedures then the bills eventually got paid. Its unfortunate if some low level administrator had no basis for the challenge but do you think it would better under a government plan? ROFLMFAO.

Then why did I have to battle them? My "docs" and the hospital were approved Anthem providers. Are you suggesting they did not know how to follow the procedures when they were approved by the insurance company?

And yes I do think it would be better under a government plan. My father was a disabled veteran who spent his life in and out of VA hospitals, so I'm well acquainted with the differences.

quote:

The issue isnt whether its a good idea or not, the issue is people dont do it, whether its paid for or not.

Which is directly contrary to you saying earlier that it should not be paid for at all.

quote:

so insurance is to blame for something that isnt appropriate to insure in the first place???? Do you buy insurance for an oil change? For cutting your lawn? For painting your house?

And what would be those health items that are inappropriate to insure? Regular checkups? You just implied above that it was a good idea. And it's pretty ridiculous to compare health insurance for regular exams to your examples.

quote:

Why should someone else pay for their inability to earn more money or inability to budget what they have?

Because a person's health and well-being should not be decided on the basis of cost. We've spent nearly as much on a pointless war in Iraq over the past six years as the proposed health plan would cost over ten years.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 7/21/2009 8:06:14 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

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