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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/9/2009 9:51:11 AM

NihilusZero

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ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

*furious blushing*

I haven't ever given out points to myself and don't intend to start now, but...

*points to self*

I win.

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/9/2009 9:56:04 AM

leadership527

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*laughs* One of my favorite sig lines reads:

I win at discussion boards

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/9/2009 9:58:45 AM

barelynangel

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Chuckles SoulPiercer -- i am soo not going there with the "give that woman a ceegar." Ya know imagination running off on its own accord and such.

To me, this whole concept is a concept of obedience and disobedience -- while discussing the various ideas behind requests and motives and responsibility is always fun lol to me this is pretty simple concept. Now he, as her owner, needs to decide what happens next in terms of her disobedience. Maybe nothing, maybe something -- in the end, it will be something old by next week lol.

angel

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/9/2009 10:03:13 AM

SassySarijane

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

(bolding mine) Not really, you just find someone whose moral code matches yours and it becomes pretty much a non-issue then. It's still about finding the person or persons who match, not oh he's a master/dom I'm a sub/slave so must obey.

Personally, I think it should be both (and that your trust in his moral code [not just your adherence to yours]) is the guiding motivation.

(Note: I mean a general "you", "your" and "yours", not specifically you.)

And by taking the time to get to really know the person, developing trust in them and finding out compatibilities and building the relationship, you (general of course) should be able to then trust in his moral code.

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/9/2009 10:15:12 AM

barelynangel

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So when do the second guessing something stop in such a relationship? To me that would be utterly stressful having to worry about and second guess my Master as to the "reasonableness" of his command.

For those who feel she should question THIS particular command -- when should she not?

angel

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/9/2009 10:24:14 AM

leadership527

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I can tell you how that works... so far at least... for Carol & I barelynangel.

Typically, there are "old areas" and "new areas". In the old areas, the second guessing stopped some time ago. Seriously, Carol's not an idiot and after a few scary times and watching it all work out just fine, she got bored with thinking it through each time. But, of course, I want to continue to explore and grow within our dynamic, so then I find some new and even more creepy thing to confront her with. Then she has to think it through again. I can only assume that eventually, maybe another 2 years or so, she'll just have been through that loop so many times that even when I propose some new scary thing, it'll just be automatic.

The answer to "when do these transitions occur?" is pretty simple... they occur when she's bored with rethinking the same thought each time. Before that, she rethinks and if necessary, gets my assistance in that effort. Since I don't interpret that as "questioning my authority" it all works out pretty smoothly.

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/9/2009 10:26:26 AM

SassySarijane

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

So when do the second guessing something stop in such a relationship? To me that would be utterly stressful having to worry about and second guess my Master as to the "reasonableness" of his command.

For those who feel she should question THIS particular command -- when should she not?

angel

I don't feel a D/s or M/s dynamic should be entered into until you have taken the time to get to know the person you are dominating or submitting to, developed trust, know you are compatible. In doing that, a lot of the issues raised constantly on these boards and in other venues would become non-issues, wouldn't happen, because you would know who you are submitting to/dominating and the types of things they'd expect.

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/9/2009 10:58:29 AM

MarcEsadrian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bubblesoffun

Here is the deal I need advice... My owner wanted me to cum tonight at my sisters house. I told him I did not feel comfortable cumming tonight because I was babysitting my sisters daughter and just didn't feel that it was OK to do so even if the child was asleep. My owner said I was being silly and unreasonable and that i am prudish. So my question is am I being silly/prudish here or does anyone think I have a reasonable explination.

Thank You :)

Are such trivial requests what often consumes young "Masters"? Such are the meager joys. I must be getting old.

In the event this post is not really a cry for attention, I'll say you are well within your rights to determine what suits you and what doesn't, what is uncomfortable and what isn't. The fly in the ointment, in my view, is when we—dominant and submissive party alike—embrace concepts like "ownership", "slavery", etc. without reflecting upon their gravity. There is of course some room for interpretation, but there comes a point where it's clear who is really running the show, and if it's not the "owner", then there is, logically, a dilemma at hand.

Personally, I don't understand what the big deal was in the above scenario. Lest you think I'm picking on you, I extend that criticism to him as well, though I do understand how a humdrum command in a humdrum scenario, when not followed, can become a big deal on principle alone. My issue would not have been that you are "prudish". My issue would have been that you willfully disobeyed a fairly easy command when serving as a "slave" or someone who is "owned".

Anyway, next topic.

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/9/2009 11:49:01 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

Here is the deal I need advice... My owner wanted me to cum tonight at my sisters house. I told him I did not feel comfortable cumming tonight because I was babysitting my sisters daughter and just didn't feel that it was OK to do so even if the child was asleep. My owner said I was being silly and unreasonable and that i am prudish. So my question is am I being silly/prudish here or does anyone think I have a reasonable explination.

Thank You :)

~FR~

Nobody but you can say that your opinion on this issue is wrong. Nobody can decide -for- you whether it is reasonable or unreasonable to obey your Master's command. However, the decision you made -may- have repercussions in your relationship, including the possibility that this will be the wedge that ends that relationship, and -that- is not only a function of your decision, but also of how your Master responds to your unwillingness to obey his command. Just as you have the right to decide not to obey a given command, your Keeper has the right to determine that such a choice sets aside the boundaries of your relationship and makes it untenable.

We -always- have a choice, but must accept that every choice will cascade as others respond to the decisions that we make. This is true no matter which side of the kneel one resides upon, and is the most profound and pervasive aspect of relationships, particularly authority-transfer relationships.

Dame Calla

PS: Just as a side-note, when one is yielding authority, it is quite important, in my opinion, to know the one that one is yielding authority to well enough to be able to have a sense of whether that individual's ideas of propriety and ethics correspond sufficiently to ones own to be able to yield freely -- though one may still be challenged, those challenges will be growth-promoting, rather than potentially destructive.

DC

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 8/9/2009 11:57:26 AM >

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/9/2009 12:19:17 PM

kiwisub12

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After reading this entire thread, i am glad that my Sir stated at the beginning of our relationship that he would never do anything that would out or embarress me in front of my family.

Not wanting to masterbate in a family members house isn't prudish, or sexual - it just is, and if someone isn't comfortable with it, so be it. I'm not comfortable with breath play or toilet play - doesn't make me prudish - just means that i am not comfortable with those particular activities.

And it seems to me that the one in the OPs relationship that thinks sex is "dirty" is the dom, who apparently thinks that sex in a family members house is "sexy" or "edgy". Teenager behaviour seems rampant in this relationship.

< Message edited by kiwisub12 -- 8/9/2009 12:20:24 PM >

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/9/2009 2:27:00 PM

IronBear

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Having read, oft with much amusement, the entire thread, I find that I am in line with kiwisub. I do feel that the OP really needs to decide if she is really a slave in a M/s dynamic or if she would be best suited to be a sub in a D/s dynamic. I can't disagree with the advise telling her to follow her own instincts and say No, and yet if she is a slave, such attitudes and actions are diametrically opposed to her doing such things unless she feels that her well being is in danger and at that time she would be best to either walk or beg/ask for release. One reason why there are far more subs than slaves would be due to the lack of negotiations on such matters in a Master/slave dynamic as opposed to a D/s dynamic. It is far easier to get hooked up into a D/s relationship where everything id up for negotiation rather than the oft more lengthy "courtship" period of the M/s one. It takes time to build the trust and the understanding on both sides where the slave has confisdence in her Master to make the right calls.

Personally, there is no way I would not only require a girl to orgasm when baby sitting, but I would not allow her to become involved in any actions outside what she is suposed to be doing. It has been mentioned that an increasing number of parents are using hidden CCTV systems to moniter the activities of the baby sitter. It is also a matter of abusing the trust of the parents and jolly bad manners to do what her Master asked when visiting someone's place. However it still is a case where a slave disobeyed her Master's command and that does need to be addressed. Perhaps both will learn from this and either go their own ways, build on this experience and have a better relationship even if it were to become a D/s one for a period. But then again, perhaps I am far too old fashion and hard nosed for these days. I my book a slave does what he or she is jolly well told to do with no arguments.

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/9/2009 5:50:31 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bubblesoffun

Here is the deal I need advice... My owner wanted me to cum tonight at my sisters house. I told him I did not feel comfortable cumming tonight because I was babysitting my sisters daughter and just didn't feel that it was OK to do so even if the child was asleep. My owner said I was being silly and unreasonable and that i am prudish. So my question is am I being silly/prudish here or does anyone think I have a reasonable explination.

Thank You :)

I haven't read through the thread yet and I have a feeling that what I'm about to say has probably been said a dozen times already.. at least. ::chuckles::

You already disobeyed. Are you seeking validation from a bunch of strangers so you can take it back to your owner and, perhaps, not have to suffer consequences for your disobedience? That probably isn't going to work. You already know if you are being silly/prudish because that's subjective and regardless of what anyone here thinks, it doesn't effect how you think. Obviously, you didn't think you were being silly or prudish otherwise you wouldn't have posted. So, I'm not sure of the motivation behind your post.

Do you have a reasonable explanation for being disobedient? Um, no. You don't. You're a slave. You have an owner. Your job is to obey. When you don't, there are consequences. You made a decision that what you 'felt' was more important than obeying. Deal with it. You give up the decision making when you become a slave.. that's part of the job description. It is not reasonable to try to explain away the entire purpose of M/s. Either engage in it or don't. That's up to you, but if you're going to turn the reigns over to someone else, then be honest enough to let them lead and not try to wrestle those reigns back just because it's inconvenient in the moment.

Let this be a lesson to you. Don't take on external responsibilities that can lead to conflicts with your owner.

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 8/9/2009 5:52:03 PM >

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/9/2009 6:55:49 PM

IronBear

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Just a thought, most, nay all the Masters I know well personally, that is to say, have coffee with and talk to face to face, would tell you that a slave in their collar is a never ending work in progress with perfection being the ultimate goal as it should be for all of us, to become the best we are able. Human wise it may be unachievable but worthy of taking the journey.

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/9/2009 7:04:33 PM

tazzygirl

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You have said what i tried to say, but so much more eloquently. thank you. i tend to agree she may want to rethink the slave status, or, at least the collar, until they learn each other better.

some tend to think a Dominant who gets upset at being told no is being childish. at times, i would agree. other times, not so much. a man who expects his commands to be obeyed has every right to be a bit churlish when he is told no. its the follow-up in his behavior that tells me what kind of man he truly is.

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/10/2009 12:08:25 AM

WyldHrt

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quote:

People normally have a much broader and clearer idea of the things they definitely do no want to do than those they do.

Most likely so, but that does not mean that they know for sure that something they have never experienced will or won't be a limit. This is what I meant when I asked how an s-type is supposed to list every possible thing that could be a limit during negotiations.

quote:

If every situation becomes a matter of being able to introduce a new stipulation and new "limit", there is no genuine power exchange.

I keep seeing this argument, and it bugs. See, here's the thing. Much is made (rightfully so) about how a sub must trust hir Dominant, but shouldn't a Dominant be able to trust his/her s-type not to go adding hard limits willy nilly just because they don't like something? If a Dom has so little faith in my willingness to obey, then I shouldn't be with him.

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/10/2009 12:09:14 AM

Leonidas

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More horse-shit here than a fourth of july parade, as my grandad used to say.

Ok, OP. As I understand the scenario, you're at your sister's house babysitting, and your "Master" wants you to cum. Now, I'm assuming that he's not there fucking you and wondering why you aren't cumming and pleading with you to and you're refusing 'cause, you know, it's your sister's house and you feel wierd about it. That would have been cute and predictable 40 years ago. Now it'd be just plain strange.

So, chances are, though you don't say, the kids are in bed and you're sitting there with him online or on the phone and he wants you to bring yourself to orgasm (lets stick a pin in how you accomplish that) cause he feels all masterly when you cum 'cause he told you to. But OMG! You refuse to cum 'cause he told you to, cause, you know, it's your sister's house and the kids are asleep, thereby bumming his entire masterly trip.

Were you being unreasonable and silly and prudish? No, you were being disobedient. Did your "master" think you were being unreasonable and silly and prudish? Obviously. Does it matter what we, the voyeuristic public think? No, not so much.

Here's the facts: He thought it'd be cool to command you to bring yourself to orgasm. You didn't think so, given the circumstances, and it sounds like you refused. In other words, he wanted you to do something that was outside your comfort zone, and your discomfort with it outweighed your desire to please him, so, your discomfort won. Please choose one from the following menu:

A) He alters his expectations to more closely match your comfort zone.

B) Your willingness and/or desire to comply with his commands somehow goes up, making your own comfort zone less important.

C) He finds a slave who is either more interested in pleasing him than you are, or who isn't such a prude.

D) You find yourself a master who you are more interested in pleasing, or who isn't such a pervert.

Here's a hint: Only one of the options above has much to do with him being dominant (with respect to you) and you being submissive (with respect to him). Can you choose which one that is?

If his expectations take you way outside your comfort zone, you're going to have to be very very willing to submit to his will (for whatever reason). Your willingness can be less (up to and including non-existant) if he never really expects anything you wouldn't have done anyway, on your own. The latter isn't dominance and submission though. In English we call that "compatiblity".

The fact that you come here looking for the opinions of strangers to make you feel more justified in saying "no" looks like you're going for option A. That's fine, and he might even go along with it, especially if you tell him that several people here thought he was way outta line for not respecting your limits. Kinda looks like you are pretty low on the willingness/desire to comply with this particular man, though, doesn't it? It's something that you might want to think about.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 8/10/2009 12:50:08 AM >

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/10/2009 5:17:57 AM

robertolapiedra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

My owner wanted me to cum tonight at my sisters house

I read the thread, just adding my question: what are you talking about?

Hello antipode. Maybe she is a screamer?....RL

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/10/2009 10:43:05 AM

RumpusParable

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FR to OP:

Thank god he didn't tell you to pee while you were babysitting! God forbid a normal, daily function that is done inside the home, in private, be done by you! Because you know all parents and houseguests stop urinating, defecating, swallowing, and having sex the moment a child lives there. Locking oneself in the bathroom for 3-5 minutes covers anything private an adult needs to do when children live in a house.

OP, you're well within your rights to choose to do or not do anything ever. But your post and most of the responses here border on or entirely cross the border into silliness, at best.

< Message edited by RumpusParable -- 8/10/2009 10:48:53 AM >

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/10/2009 10:58:04 AM

LillyoftheVally

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

FR to OP:

God forbid a normal, daily function that is done inside the home, in private, be done by you! Because you know all parents and houseguests stop urinating, defecating, swallowing, and having sex the moment a child lives there.
OP, you're well within your rights to choose to do or not do anything ever. But your post and most of the responses here border on or entirely cross the border into silliness, at best.

I completely agree, comparing swallowing and having a piss to masterbation and calling them all normal daily functions does rather reek of silliness.

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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/10/2009 11:31:10 AM

barelynangel

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Last i checked sexual relief, sex, all things sexual was a normal daily function -- you mean its not?

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