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RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/10/2009 7:29:03 PM

Posts: 6233
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It amazes me how perfect some people are -- lol i disobeyed, i paid the consequences, i grew in my slavery as he further mastered me, but yeah sometimes i still fucked up even 6-7 years down the road of my slavery. Not often but i didn't equate disobedience with NOT being a slave -- hell most times i didn't even second guess my slavery. I was his slave -- i was secure in his mastery of me. When i fucked up and disobeyed even then i never worried about NOT being his slave -- i simply received displine. grins, i would have jumped up and down and inside out if disobedience make me not his slave lol would have made many things MUCH more fun at times. Mad scientist character with the evil laugh saying ha ha ha i do not wish to be a slave right now this second -- and do some disobedient act -- sneak a peak around and check my being a slave lol. walk away giggling as how for that minute i wasn't a slave -- so nah!

The day a Man says to me -- you disobey and you aren't my slave -- is the day i laugh at him because to me -- the day he makes ME in control of MY slavery is the day he no longer has a slave. That is just WAY to much power to give a girl who has a temper from hell and an ability to be her own worst enemy lol when it comes to cutting off her nose to spite her face.

grins its the pinky and the brain syndrome i have -- every day of my slavery it was MY turn to take over the world and my Master would simply say nope, not today -- maybe tomorrow lol. grins, he said i had just the expression brain had when my plan wasn't allowed lol.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 8/10/2009 7:34:13 PM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/10/2009 7:31:31 PM

Posts: 6233
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So toppingfromthebottom --- you never have simply NEEDED to orgasm? I mean hell i could be sitting there doing nothing and my whole body will suddenly be saying -- hey, hey you, yeah you.... comeee on ya know you wanna. And its a NEED not just a desire lol.

Maybe i am abnormal lol.

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/10/2009 7:35:58 PM

LillyoftheVally

Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

So toppingfromthebottom --- you never have simply NEEDED to orgasm? I mean hell i could be sitting there doing nothing and my whole body will suddenly be saying -- hey, hey you, yeah you.... comeee on ya know you wanna. And its a NEED not just a desire lol.

Maybe i am abnormal lol.

angel

God I actually really relate to this, I actually get a stabbing pain on occasion that only cumming relieves. I still think that I would be reluctant to do it in someone elses house though.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to barelynangel)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/11/2009 7:42:29 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

CaringandReal said
Or perhaps... A slave obeys...until they no longer obey...and then the master (and only the master, not the slave and certainly not some general principle that sounds good on paper) decides whether she is still a slave to that man and what the consequences of her disobedience will be. Only him.

Just so you know, that's not how it works for Carol and I. Carol choosing to disobey me is the same as her removing the collar... in point of fact, if she ever got to the point where she could disobey me, I would know I'd already lost her as my slave... probably quite some time previous to whenever the disobedience happened. At that point, the consequence is already happened... she is free. We're just both finding out about it belatedly.

Not to sidetrack here but I seem to remember a thread wherein you noted her discomfort/feelings of foolishness/balking at asking "What would please you today, Master?". You decided to let it go rather than to continue to pursue that ritual. My question is this: Did you let it go because of realization that her discomfort with it could eventually lead to disobedience thus allowing her to "lead" in that instance? Or was it honestly a case of choosing a ritual and BOTH of you feeling uncomfortable with it after it was chosen?

OP, all I can say is this...I don't seek a slave, I seek a submissive. Of the three relationships I've been in, the submission became more complete but never evolved into slavery so I don't have experience with the Master/slave mindset. I do know that in dealing with a submissive, there can be grumblings and questioning and doubts that sometimes arise over something that they have already agreed to submit to. Part of that is the conditions set up for what they are submitting to. Sometimes it is easy to set an area of control...in this case, "I have control over your masturbation"...but then come to find out that in the dominant's case, that he surrounds that control with no responsibility or sense on his part. Of course, that is his perogative and your refusing to do it is still disobedience but it gives you insight into your choice of masters and into yourself and into the man who you've chosen to be your master. Wyld and others have noted that not every situation can be accounted for during negotiation. How a dominant or master handles the situation as it comes up is a clue for you. If you want a master who can understand circumstances in which his control may have to be "delayed" or changed, then choose that one. If you want one who will change his "control" over an area to something that more closely resembles what only you want or what mainly works for you, then choose that one. There are differing levels of dominance and that's fine...what I see as dominant behavior, someone may see as Masterly behavior and someone else may see as ' "dominant" whose submissive is actually the dominant in that she sets the rules and his control is illusory because what she has given control over is either something she would have given anyway or something that she has structured to fit her perfectly' and lastly, someone else may see as 'domineering who-the-fuck-does-he-think-he-is' behavior. Leonidas noted something in his choices that one was more compatibility than dominance/submission and I agree up to a point. I want dominance and submission but I don't want it all to be a struggle. Yes, I am of the type who not only wants submission in areas that are easy, I want submission that comes from wanting to give it to ME...who I am as a person...and her overcoming the situation (long distance, friends negativity over it, whatever) and submitting to ME the dominant. Does that mean that doubts will not arise even after that submission has been given? No. But that is where communication comes in as does the willingness to make it work. But that communication and willingness has to come from both sides. So it takes compatibility AND the desire to dominate/submit with a particular person.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 8/11/2009 8:03:15 AM >

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/11/2009 7:43:52 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bubblesoffun

Here is the deal I need advice... My owner wanted me to cum tonight at my sisters house. I told him I did not feel comfortable cumming tonight because I was babysitting my sisters daughter and just didn't feel that it was OK to do so even if the child was asleep. My owner said I was being silly and unreasonable and that i am prudish. So my question is am I being silly/prudish here or does anyone think I have a reasonable explination.

Thank You :)

Taking your question at face value....I couldn't possibly have an opinion on whether you are silly, unreasonable and prudish but HE obviously does have an opinion on it and if it were me , that would be the only one that mattered.

In my relationship, whether or not I feel *ok* about something might be a REASON for me baulking at something or not doing it, but not an excuse. There will be consequences on both counts.

I have a raft of things where I have a *reasonable explanation* for feeling *uncomfortable* but feeling comfortable all the time, in all ways, was never promised nor expected.

I'm sure I could put a spin on a lot of things I've been told/asked to do and my owner would look immature, wanky and unreasonable and I'd look like Snow-White. It's all in the who/what and why ........ and in no way is any of that revealed here.

agirl

(in reply to bubblesoffun)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/11/2009 8:05:41 AM

CreativeDominant

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Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubblesoffun

Here is the deal I need advice... My owner wanted me to cum tonight at my sisters house. I told him I did not feel comfortable cumming tonight because I was babysitting my sisters daughter and just didn't feel that it was OK to do so even if the child was asleep. My owner said I was being silly and unreasonable and that i am prudish. So my question is am I being silly/prudish here or does anyone think I have a reasonable explination.

Thank You :)

Taking your question at face value....I couldn't possibly have an opinion on whether you are silly, unreasonable and prudish but HE obviously does have an opinion on it and if it were me , that would be the only one that mattered.

In my relationship, whether or not I feel *ok* about something might be a REASON for me baulking at something or not doing it, but not an excuse. There will be consequences on both counts.

I have a raft of things where I have a *reasonable explanation* for feeling *uncomfortable* but feeling comfortable all the time, in all ways, was never promised nor expected.

I'm sure I could put a spin on a lot of things I've been told/asked to do and my owner would look immature, wanky and unreasonable and I'd look like Snow-White. It's all in the who/what and why ........ and in no way is any of that revealed here.

agirl

Nicely said, agirl...and something else that needs to be considered.

Balking is O.K. but it carries consequences just as disobedience does.

(in reply to agirl)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/11/2009 8:10:21 AM

LillyoftheVally

Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Balking is O.K. but it carries consequences just as disobedience does.

In some dynamics/sometimes

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/11/2009 8:21:40 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Balking is O.K. but it carries consequences just as disobedience does.

In some dynamics/sometimes

If it carries no consequences whatsoever, what is the point of interacting in the dynamic at all? If I balk at something , the consequence is that he will want to know why, I will have to talk about it and it'll be examined.

agirl

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/11/2009 8:28:03 AM

LillyoftheVally

Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Balking is O.K. but it carries consequences just as disobedience does.

In some dynamics/sometimes

If it carries no consequences whatsoever, what is the point of interacting in the dynamic at all? If I balk at something , the consequence is that he will want to know why, I will have to talk about it and it'll be examined.

agirl

There have been occasions for me personally within my dynamics when something has been asked of me simply because it is known that it will cause me to balk but that I will do, sort of like obvious pop quizes. And to be honest know I don't feel the need to examine every reaction that that I have, especially if it is pretty self explainitory.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to agirl)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/11/2009 9:22:25 AM

agirl

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Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Balking is O.K. but it carries consequences just as disobedience does.

In some dynamics/sometimes

If it carries no consequences whatsoever, what is the point of interacting in the dynamic at all? If I balk at something , the consequence is that he will want to know why, I will have to talk about it and it'll be examined.

agirl

There have been occasions for me personally within my dynamics when something has been asked of me simply because it is known that it will cause me to balk but that I will do, sort of like obvious pop quizes. And to be honest know I don't feel the need to examine every reaction that that I have, especially if it is pretty self explainitory.

I'm not speaking of situations of hesitance, apprehension and reluctance that have been designed exactly FOR that reaction. Neither of us would be surprised at the reaction if that was the case, having known each other for a decade, and it wouldn't need any investigation, would it?

That isn't apparent here.

agirl

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/11/2009 9:36:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Not to sidetrack here but I seem to remember a thread wherein you noted her discomfort/feelings of oolishness/balking at asking "What would please you today, Master?". You decided to let it go rather than to continue to pursue that ritual. My question is this: Did you let it go because of realization that her discomfort with it could eventually lead to disobedience thus allowing her to "lead" in that instance? Or was it honestly a case of choosing a ritual and BOTH of you feeling uncomfortable with it after it was chosen?

Well, let me answer your question, then answer the question I think you were really asking.

In this particular instance, the ritual is actually still going. It's worth is, I think, somewhat dubious. I suspect what's happening is that neither Carol nor I are "ritual inclined" so such things quickly get dumbed down to a by-rote operation. So in this particular case, I've deprioritized it due to a lack of utility, not really that either of us was uncomfortable with it. Just as I'm writing this, I'm wondering if I simply command her to be more mindful when she's doing it if that would help to make it less of a sham. It's worth a try.

But to answer your larger question, I have (I don't think) ever made any bones about the fact that the things I might do with the authority Carol has granted me are HIGHLY limited by my love for her. The kind of give & take you are talking about is more than feasible within our dynamic although not exactly as you stated. I wouldn't change a command because it might lead to disobedience. But I can easily see myself giving a command and noting that it's not working out as I had hoped (say... by making her miserable) and changing it for that reason. ALL of my dominance happens in very tight partnership with Carol and her submission. NONE of it is disconnected. I'm not even sure I could actually desire something that was vile to her... not even in the theoretical privacy of my own head sort of way. No matter how intriguing it was to me, something that was truly vile to Carol and could not be changed would quickly become poisoned in my own mind too.

To the OP, the exchange between CD and I (as I'm pretty sure was his intent), highlights his point in his last paragraph. Some of the things I do with Carol are SUPER-EXTREME [insert bug-eyed stare] by a lot of people's standards. On the other hand, the casual give & take I just talked about is absolutely setting up "wishy washy not a true dom" vibes in other readers. The reality is that for us, it's neither extreme nor wishy-washy. It's just what works.

You need to figure out what is right for you and will make you happy. There is no "correct" way to do it other than whatever way makes the people involved happy. But no matter what way you do it... it's going to require the things he listed... communication and willingness to make it work... and it'll require that out of BOTH parties.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/11/2009 11:41:18 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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Giggling at how you said it. I can't really say that I have. Not with out provoking the interest in an O by watching some really hot porn, and even then I can choose not to O and be ok.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

So toppingfromthebottom --- you never have simply NEEDED to orgasm? I mean hell i could be sitting there doing nothing and my whole body will suddenly be saying -- hey, hey you, yeah you.... comeee on ya know you wanna. And its a NEED not just a desire lol.

Maybe i am abnormal lol.

angel

(in reply to barelynangel)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/11/2009 12:07:30 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Balking is O.K. but it carries consequences just as disobedience does.

In some dynamics/sometimes

I hate to sound repetitive, but just as agirl said below your post...balking does carry consequences in MY dynamic. It leads to discussion...I want to know WHY the balking is going on. I've spoken with, and have been involved with, submissives who sometimes balk even at things they agreed to follow initially. But when things happen...when something unforeseen occurs...that which they agreed to is not as easy as it was and they balk. I suppose I could do like a lot do and just say "Stop" or I could pull the "Master" card and say "because I say so and you agreed" and don't get me wrong...I have and will use those on occasion...but I also intelligent enough to know that the balking is usually for a reason and silly me, I want to know why. The knowing of "why" makes a submissive look inside herself and find her reasons and sometimes, in doing so, the real reason she is balking comes out and then it can be dealt with.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/11/2009 12:13:25 PM

LillyoftheVally

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I think, that maybe our definitions of Balking are slightly out of whack. And it is taking the thread in a rather pointless direction, as there is no point in arguing semantics based on personal relationship dynamics

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/11/2009 6:45:38 PM

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So is OH HELL NO -- balking or disobedience? Just need to be sure....

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/12/2009 10:51:15 AM

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Joined: 5/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

So is OH HELL NO -- balking or disobedience? Just need to be sure....

LOL. Why do I have such a strong feeling that you did it anyway, despite the "OH HELL NO!" I have internal "OHN" moments, but don't verbalize them anymore. I know I will end up doing it anyway, may as well do it without all the unpleasantness. I think if you say OHN and don't do it, its disobedience. I suspect you were a balker ;)

(in reply to barelynangel)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/12/2009 9:35:39 PM

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Yes, there should be a few instances where slaves may say no, and then whatever you agreed upon happening in those situations happens.If it means she is punished later, so be it. If it means you drop her so be it. I think it is possible for people to negotiate terms and hard limits as they show up, during the getting to know you process, and once a year or so goes by, a and a Master actually knows a slave, then he will ask appropriate behaviors of her, pushing her limits slightly at fist and harder later. How can you shove the limits of someone you just met?

That is a doomed relationship if you ask me. Or simply playing at being a slave and MAster instead of truly getting into the nity gritty of it. That is why there is usually a period of time before one is collared, to test compatibility. Please, don't break your toys!

And to those who think it "morally offensive" to masturbate in a house with a child, who is asleep from ten to 2, or even the next day in some cases....really? There is no one around. The kid is sound asleep. You think the parents wait for the kid to be out of the house to have sex?

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/13/2009 5:19:46 AM

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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3

Yes, there should be a few instances where slaves may say no, and then whatever you agreed upon happening in those situations happens.If it means she is punished later, so be it. If it means you drop her so be it. I think it is possible for people to negotiate terms and hard limits as they show up, during the getting to know you process, and once a year or so goes by, a and a Master actually knows a slave, then he will ask appropriate behaviors of her, pushing her limits slightly at fist and harder later. How can you shove the limits of someone you just met?

That is a doomed relationship if you ask me. Or simply playing at being a slave and MAster instead of truly getting into the nity gritty of it. That is why there is usually a period of time before one is collared, to test compatibility. Please, don't break your toys!

And to those who think it "morally offensive" to masturbate in a house with a child, who is asleep from ten to 2, or even the next day in some cases....really? There is no one around. The kid is sound asleep. You think the parents wait for the kid to be out of the house to have sex?

Ya know, I really don't care if the parents have sex while their child is in the house or not. It is their house and their child. If I am being paid to watch their kid, then that is what I am going to do. They are not paying me to go online and get off for my mistress. They are paying me to watch their child. I don't care if there is no way that they could ever find out, they are still paying me to watch their kid, not masturbate.

Oh and if my mistress couldn't understand this, then I probibly would not be with her to begin with.

And to answer the question from the poster who asked....

"So toppingfromthebottom --- you never have simply NEEDED to orgasm? I mean hell i could be sitting there doing nothing and my whole body will suddenly be saying -- hey, hey you, yeah you.... comeee on ya know you wanna. And its a NEED not just a desire lol. "

I have been very horny at times, but never to the point that it became a need I could not control.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to Lostkitten3)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/14/2009 12:08:19 PM

Posts: 25191
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From: Apple County NY
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I've got to admit, I'm jealous. The rest of you seem to be able to cum on command without being touched. Go from picking up Legos to massive orgasms. I can't.

The op is rather young and difficulty orgasming is more common before 30 and after menopause. So she may not be able to just go into the bathroom and have one within 30 seconds.

Beyond all that, why does it have to be her family she gets potentially outed to? Why not his? Why not have her show up at his mother's door with a mask on, and fetish wear and tell his mother what he's into? If he's the dom, shouldn't he be taking on the greater share of things going wrong?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: Am I being unreasonable? - 8/15/2009 9:29:18 AM

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Joined: 10/17/2008
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I suppose you tromp up the stairs and watch it sleep too? Stare at it while it does the little snuffly snore? I am guessing the parents would find that odd behavior.
I am guessing they expect you to get online or watch t.v. or make some dinner, something to entertain yourself to pass the time. I have fallen asleep because they get back at 1 am, and they have no issue with that. SO long as friends didn't come over, they were all ok with me doing whatever.

I suppose you have stronger morals and work ethic than I do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lostkitten3

Yes, there should be a few instances where slaves may say no, and then whatever you agreed upon happening in those situations happens.If it means she is punished later, so be it. If it means you drop her so be it. I think it is possible for people to negotiate terms and hard limits as they show up, during the getting to know you process, and once a year or so goes by, a and a Master actually knows a slave, then he will ask appropriate behaviors of her, pushing her limits slightly at fist and harder later. How can you shove the limits of someone you just met?

That is a doomed relationship if you ask me. Or simply playing at being a slave and MAster instead of truly getting into the nity gritty of it. That is why there is usually a period of time before one is collared, to test compatibility. Please, don't break your toys!

And to those who think it "morally offensive" to masturbate in a house with a child, who is asleep from ten to 2, or even the next day in some cases....really? There is no one around. The kid is sound asleep. You think the parents wait for the kid to be out of the house to have sex?

Ya know, I really don't care if the parents have sex while their child is in the house or not. It is their house and their child. If I am being paid to watch their kid, then that is what I am going to do. They are not paying me to go online and get off for my mistress. They are paying me to watch their child. I don't care if there is no way that they could ever find out, they are still paying me to watch their kid, not masturbate.

Oh and if my mistress couldn't understand this, then I probibly would not be with her to begin with.

And to answer the question from the poster who asked....

"So toppingfromthebottom --- you never have simply NEEDED to orgasm? I mean hell i could be sitting there doing nothing and my whole body will suddenly be saying -- hey, hey you, yeah you.... comeee on ya know you wanna. And its a NEED not just a desire lol. "

I have been very horny at times, but never to the point that it became a need I could not control.

(in reply to thishereboi)

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