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Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 2:54:26 PM

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Reading another post about a humiliation scene done by a newbi got me thinking....

Is humiliation play something you should just jump into like that? I mean it's just words right? (not going into physical humiliations, i mean things like calling a submissive woman a "fat pig" or "she doesn't deserve to cum/serve you/etc)

But is that something that should really be done by new people? Or are we chalking this up to something like RACK?

I see humiliation play as edge play, for the simple fact sometimes you just cant come back emotionally, and it could be damaging to your psyche for a long time, or forever.

Thoughts? Opinions?

< Message edited by Sunnyfey -- 9/9/2009 3:00:41 PM >

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:02:42 PM

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Well, seeing as how I have to talk to myself like that to get off *alone* I dont really consider it an edge.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:05:01 PM

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You should study more on the subject..like butt plugs in church...or smelling like piss in a restuarant..that is humiliation..take your mind further and deeper and come up with your own.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:05:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

Well, seeing as how I have to talk to myself like that to get off *alone* I dont really consider it an edge.

*nods* But isn't it a little different when it's someone else? Like, more emotional I think, possibly.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:06:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: flogger

You should study more on the subject..like butt plugs in church...or smelling like piss in a restuarant..that is humiliation..take your mind further and deeper and come up with your own.

I wasn't asking about physical humiliations. That's why I said as much in my OP.

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RE: Humilation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:07:01 PM

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Some are use to that and have had it all their life from their parents or family or previous partners. I grew up with it myself and I don't really like it from my D. I become rebelious if they talk to me like that but more submissive if they are sweet to me. Everyone is different though.

The best possible situation I can see that being used in with a brand new sub is this.
the sub has been treated liek that their entire life. The D knows this and wants to give her self esteem. So starts off telling them they are worthless etc etc
but slowly over time starts to change and ween them off this until they are much more self confident.

another possible scenario would be that it's just a fantasy they want to live out and in reality have very high self esteem. This again is perfectly suitable for first timers as it's a fantasy they wish to live out.

Again not really my thing I prefer the honey not the viniger to get me to submit . :) but to each their own.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:22:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

Well, seeing as how I have to talk to myself like that to get off *alone* I dont really consider it an edge.

*nods* But isn't it a little different when it's someone else? Like, more emotional I think, possibly.

Ok, so before I was aware of BDSM as something more than bondage and scratching, back when the whole lifestyle was not in the picture, when I had an abusive ex who ended our relationship with rape, if he talked to me like that during the end of the relationship when the abuse started, yes, that could have had the potential to hurt me emotionally. But then again, if he was coercing me into sex and then called me a fat pig, I would most likely have kicked him in the balls.

I would say in a dungeon where the Dom may not know your history or emotional triggers and yellow lights it could be edge play because if you say the wrong thing to the wrong girl, you can easily send her over the edge.

I guess this would also transcend into fresh BDSM relationships, or scene-theme only meets.

For two people who are fostering a relationship though, healthily and at a regulated pace, verbal humiliation will most likely not rear its fat whore head until the right time.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:22:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

I see humiliation play as edge play, for the simple fact sometimes you just cant come back emotionally, and it could be damaging to your psyche for a long time, or forever.

Thoughts? Opinions?

I think words that humiliate are or can be hurtful/harmful at the very least, and possibly permanently damaging at the worst. I've engaged in it and even used to crave it, but in my own personal evolution over the years, I've come to think it's something I should avoid. I like and even need to be humiliated within a ds relationship at times, but there are plenty of ways to humble a person that don't involve degrading them or breaking them down or saying ugly, hurtful, and basically untrue things like...."you're a worthless whore" or whathaveyou.

The thing about the mind is that it has a "mind" of it's own, and while we might think we are above the damage and have everything in the correct perspective, the damage can be happening without our realizing it. I once read that our subconscious doesn't know the difference between the truth and a lie. I believe that if you hear something enough times, you start to reflect that "truth".

On a personal level, I work too god damn hard to build myself up and to function in the world with confidence in myself. I'm not really willing to be called a dumb cunt anymore, and I'm no longer attracted to doms who want to behave that way either. I'm not judging it for anyone else, I just happen to think it's destructive behavior, and ultimately detrimental for the one on the receiving end.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:24:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

verbal humiliation will most likely not rear its fat whore head until the right time.

NICE!

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:30:26 PM

LordDarkPleasure

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its a very circumstancial topic.

Keeping on with the "fat whore" example, call a person who doesn't worry about her weight too much isn't very dangerous.

Calling a bulimic person a fat whore isn't edge play either. you've gotten beyond the "edge" a long while ago and deserve to be punched in the throat.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:31:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LordDarkPleasure

its a very circumstancial topic.

Keeping on with the "fat whore" example, call a person who doesn't worry about her weight too much isn't very dangerous.

Calling a bulimic person a fat whore isn't edge play either. you've gotten beyond the "edge" a long while ago and deserve to be punched in the throat.

Totally agree with this entire post.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:31:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Reading another post about a humiliation scene done by a newbi got me thinking....

Is humiliation play something you should just jump into like that? I mean it's just words right? (not going into physical humiliations, i mean things like calling a submissive woman a "fat pig" or "she doesn't deserve to cum/serve you/etc)

From experience: No, it's a bad plan when the players involved don't know each other well. i now react even more poorly to emotional humiliation. i didn't come back from the trip i guess you'd say, now i am "ruined" for others as it will leave me as dry as the Sahara and bitter as a chokecherry when they try it.

But is that something that should really be done by new people? Or are we chalking this up to something like RACK?

Not up to me. i'd remind those who ask me that a person can get the same sort of "fun" at any local watering hole for less work than the proposed relationships on these boards--why not start with acts they can't get elsewhere?

I see humiliation play as edge play, for the simple fact sometimes you just cant come back emotionally, and it could be damaging to your psyche for a long time, or forever.

Agreed.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:38:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey
I see humiliation play as edge play, for the simple fact sometimes you just cant come back emotionally, and it could be damaging to your psyche for a long time, or forever.

In my mind, the "edge" is going to be highly subjective. Each individual D/s couple will have their own areas which are "edgy" for them. They will also have other areas that they consider a yawn but are edgy to other folks.

For me and Carol, humiliation wouldn't work out very well. I'd call it more "stupid play" than "edge play" since I could just about guarantee it'd be the end of our marriage. I suspect this is because Carol and I don't "play", so any humiliation that was done could only be "real humiliation".

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:46:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

Well, seeing as how I have to talk to myself like that to get off *alone* I dont really consider it an edge.

Totally agreed!

I feel the same way about this issue that I do most things in WIITWD and that is: Being a "newbie" to "play" doesn't make one a newbie at life. People can have lived a long life and garnered much wisdom and experience without ever having engaged in such things before. Therefore, I feel they'll have the ability to cope pretty well having been alive and experiencing things for awhile. The OP asks: "But is that something that should really be done by new people?" They aren't "new people." They weren't born yesterday. New to this "lifestyle" doesn't make one defenseless and unable to handle "edgy" things if you consider rough talk "edgy."

Disclaimer: The words "newbie," "WIITWD," and "lifestyle" all give me the heebie-jeebies. Just tryin' to communicate my point as clearly and easily as possible

luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 9/9/2009 3:49:04 PM >

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:48:45 PM

LordDarkPleasure

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Another example of subtle detail that changes everything:

I wouldn't call my sub a bitch. That would simply be insulting and hurting her.

I would however tell her that she is MY bitch. Then a dynamics kicks in, where she knows she isn't one in general but is now free to act like one with me, because she knows its for me. I did humiliate her, but she will often be flattered by it and then proceed in humiliating herself just to embrace the fact that she is my bitch.

< Message edited by LordDarkPleasure -- 9/9/2009 4:41:32 PM >

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:52:01 PM

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For me, I don't deal well with things like, "it's humiliation but it's not". Either I intended to humiliate Carol or I did not. It is one or the other. If I did not, then I wouldn't think of it as humiliation play. For instance, I call Carol my "kinky little slut" but we both know the meaning behind those words. "Slut" has been redefined. But I wouldn't think of that as "humiliation". Given Carol's personality, I can't really see "real" humiliation doing anything other than humiliating her... probably crushingly.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 3:59:53 PM

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For me, it depends on the other person. I have had partners that have emotional abuse issues and those that don't. I think as with all play, I have to know who I'm playing with and what's the line with that person. I also try to pay attention to the subtle signs of the person I'm with. I'll stop whatever it is if I sense something is amiss.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 4:05:41 PM

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The problem here is that any time you use it, will be the first time. Finding out you can enjoy pain, and doing so happily for years doesn't mean that the first time you get called a worthless cunt won't be difficult.

You're always going to be a newbie to it at some point.

Me? I don't handle it well and he hasn't done it since. It didn't give him the response he was looking for so he changed approaches to get that response.

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 4:39:14 PM

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See, now i might just translate "wasn't the response He was looking for" and "sense something is amiss" into "received neck punch" from now on. Darn my brain!

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RE: Humiliation = Edge Play? - 9/9/2009 4:41:31 PM

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LOL
I think he would have preferred that to me locking myself in the bathroom crying uncontrollably. Not the wanton lust crazed state he was aiming for!

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