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Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/3/2006 4:53:19 PM   
cloudboy


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I am curious if you have gone through a nasty divorce wherein either the financial or child support issues had to be resolved in a trial? If so, might you please describe your experience? If possible, please describe the role of the lawyers and the playout of the legal proceeding. What did you think swayed the court one way or the other about disputed areas such as child suppport, rehabilitative alimony, permanant alimony, and size / distribution of spousal monetary awards.

I am a lawyer, and I have not taken any domestic cases ---- but I may soon take one destined for trial where one spouse is being deceitful about his/her income, finances, and role in the family. So, although I may not be able to prove how much money the person has hidden away, I might be able to prove that in general, he/she is not particularly "honest" & "trustworthy" --- the goal being to get a higher than normal monetary award for the more honest spouse in the divorce.
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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/3/2006 5:25:07 PM   
Gauge


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quote:

I am a lawyer, and I have not taken any domestic cases ---- but I may soon take one destined for trial where one spouse is being deceitful about his/her income, finances, and role in the family. So, although I may not be able to prove how much money the person has hidden away, I might be able to prove that in general, he/she is not particularly "honest" & "trustworthy" --- the goal being to get a higher than normal monetary award for the more honest spouse in the divorce.


If your client has a penis, bend him over and tell him to spread his cheeks... the court will do the rest. Normally lube is not used.

Right, wrong or indifferent the courts have a bias against the man in the marriage. I have gone through many court hearings and have come out scratching my head as to why I was told that I lost. My lawyer is a fantastic one and he just looks at me and shakes his head. Child support is also a huge item where they can do whatever they want regardless if the man can sustain his own life.

I find that the lawyers are normally unwilling to be reasonable on either side, but my lawyer is very reasonable and of course, my ex's isn't. It is a court hearing for this or that that could be settled with a phone call and a written agreement between us... but they won't do that. I have told my ex that her lawyer is costing her money for frivolous reasons. Her lawyer has her persuaded to pull everything into court.

I am very bitter at the court system for reasons that I refuse to trot out here for public consumption. The system is biased and regardless if the man was the one wronged the courts rarely support the man's side of things.

_____________________________

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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/3/2006 5:41:53 PM   
Arpig


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Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Guage is correct. If you have a female client in a divorce case, go ahead and make whatever claim you want, don't worry about proof or evidence, or even if you contradict yourself...in my experience none of that is relevant...make the claim and it is apparently considered proven fact by the courts regardless of the actual facts or evidence presented to refute the claim.
It ain't supposed to be that way, but it is.

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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/3/2006 5:46:44 PM   
windchymes


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Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		Divorce laws vary by state. If your state has a "no-fault" law, then it doesn't matter if the "bad" spouse knocked up the judge's daughter and the "good" spouse joined a convent, it's still equal distribution of money and assets. Debt incurred by either party is considered "joint" debt up until the date the divorce petition is filed. Homes can be ordered sold and proceeds used to settle all debts before splitting any remaining proceeds between the two parties.

New Jersey (a no-fault state) is notorious for favoring the wife/mother for alimony. The custodial parent is usually awarded generous alimony, regardless of the financial effect on the other spouse. The state does not want to support the mother and child in the welfare system. Child support is a given (as it should be), and it's based on a formula that takes both spouse's past incomes & potential future incomes into consideration, and a percentage is calculated out.

I have a good friend in this situation right now. One of his attorneys told him to imagine putting your arm down your throat, grabbing one of your lungs and yanking it out. That's what his divorce is going to feel like.

The other impression I've gotten is that family court judges have heard it all. They're aware that there are always two sides to every story, and testimony to them is "he said/she said". Melodrama and overmagnification of alleged mistreatment usually set eyes to rolling, lol.

(in reply to Gauge)
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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/3/2006 6:05:25 PM   
Gauge


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quote:

The other impression I've gotten is that family court judges have heard it all. They're aware that there are always two sides to every story, and testimony to them is "he said/she said". Melodrama and overmagnification of alleged mistreatment usually set eyes to rolling, lol.


Yeah... no prejudice there. This is what I mean. Each case is no longer based on its own merits, they are more or less lumped together as "here we go again" and the guy is the one that takes it on the chin. No one can sit there and tell me the court isn't biased. It is just easier for them to finish the case rather than do their jobs and listen to each side and make an unbiased decision. Our system sucks. I used to believe in the judicial system... no longer though.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to windchymes)
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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/3/2006 6:06:39 PM   
mistoferin


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quote:

Guage is correct. If you have a female client in a divorce case, go ahead and make whatever claim you want, don't worry about proof or evidence, or even if you contradict yourself...in my experience none of that is relevant...make the claim and it is apparently considered proven fact by the courts regardless of the actual facts or evidence presented to refute the claim.
It ain't supposed to be that way, but it is.


While I have indeed seen instances of this, I disagree that this is always the case. I can't speak from my own experience because if one can possibly have a "good" divorce...I had it. My ex and I used the same attorney, fought over nothing, rejected interference by the Friend of the Court and even went to lunch together after court. We figured we were adults and it would be pretty stupid to act like spoiled children at that point...so rather than make a bad situation worse by throwing adult sized temper tantrums we opted to make the best of it and deal with it in the most civilized manner we could. It really worked out well that way and paved the road for us both to have equal interaction in raising our children...and as a side bonus we have remained best friends to this day.

Now someone very close to me is having the entirely opposite experience in her ongoing....and ongoing....and ongoing divorce. She has been made out to be something you rank right below amebic dysentery by her soon to be ex. It seems he can say whatever he wants, make any outrageous claim he wants, tell any lie he wants....and offer no proof of any of it in that courtroom and it is all taken as gospel. Maybe it's because he's the one with all the money....or maybe it's because he's a lawyer. Whatever the reason it is one of the worst travesties I think I have ever witnessed.

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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/3/2006 6:10:24 PM   
champagnewishes


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Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Orange County
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quote:

I am curious if you have gone through a nasty divorce wherein either the financial or child support issues had to be resolved in a trial?


I went through a four year divorce that spanned criminal court, family court and the necessity to file an emergency court investigation. Would be glad to answer any questions you may have. The last year of the divorce, I was in propria persona.

The fact that your anticipating it actually going as far as trial is impressive in this day and age of mediation. To retell my adventures would require more space than i want to take up on this post...but if you would like any specifics i would be glad to email them.

_____________________________

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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/3/2006 6:12:34 PM   
Gauge


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quote:

While I have indeed seen instances of this, I disagree that this is always the case.


No, it sure isn't always the case. I would say 95% of the time it is.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/3/2006 6:12:46 PM   
champagnewishes


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From: Orange County
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quote:

It seems he can say whatever he wants, make any outrageous claim he wants, tell any lie he wants....and offer no proof of any of it in that courtroom and it is all taken as gospel. Maybe it's because he's the one with all the money....or maybe it's because he's a lawyer.


Ahhh so i am not alone.

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Nirvana cannot be described, it is only understood truly by a person who has experienced it.


(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/3/2006 6:21:37 PM   
windchymes


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Joined: 4/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

The other impression I've gotten is that family court judges have heard it all. They're aware that there are always two sides to every story, and testimony to them is "he said/she said". Melodrama and overmagnification of alleged mistreatment usually set eyes to rolling, lol.


Yeah... no prejudice there. This is what I mean. Each case is no longer based on its own merits, they are more or less lumped together as "here we go again" and the guy is the one that takes it on the chin. No one can sit there and tell me the court isn't biased. It is just easier for them to finish the case rather than do their jobs and listen to each side and make an unbiased decision. Our system sucks. I used to believe in the judicial system... no longer though.


Sorry about your situation, Gauge. For what it's worth, every now and then, there is some justice. The same friend I mentioned above suffered a severe depressive illness from the stress of the marriage and then separation, was in several different psychiatric hospitals for six weeks, and had to attend court the day after he was dischargedfor the preliminary hearing. It was obvious to look at him that he was barely clinging to sanity. His wife's lawyer demanded $4000 a month immediate spousal support. The judge just looked at her in disbelief and said, "Why???" Since there was a child involved, she was awarded $400. (She had moved comfortably and happily into her parents' spacious home) That particular hearing swung heavily to my friend's (the man's) side, with the judge staying just within the legal minimums, and it was strongly suggested that SHE get a job. Her attorney (young female strongly resembling the offspring of a wildebeest and a bulldog :) ) was called to the bench and told literally to "cut the crap". Hope that makes you smile a little :)

< Message edited by windchymes -- 3/3/2006 6:22:06 PM >

(in reply to Gauge)
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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/3/2006 6:44:03 PM   
fastlane


Posts: 2159
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		NO!

all of my divorces have been romantic and awesome...can't wait to marry and try a few more...
I do hope your rates are as cheap as you Cloud boy!....winks, Fastlane!

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Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/3/2006 6:56:05 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		cloudboy; i have alot of domestic relations experience and can assist in some forensics. "Hidden assets" are generally easy to prove, if You know some tricks. Please email me on the other side if You're insterested.

candystripper

(in reply to fastlane)
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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/4/2006 12:15:32 AM   
champagnewishes


Posts: 1310
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Orange County
Status: offline
quote:

all of my divorces have been romantic and awesome...can't wait to marry and try a few more...


Right on Fastlane....me too...! Maybe we can get a 2 for 1 divorce...the last one cost me over $80,000 and i ended up with hmmmm what did i end up with...oh that's right...absolutely nothing.

_____________________________

Nirvana cannot be described, it is only understood truly by a person who has experienced it.


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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/4/2006 12:31:18 AM   
dincubus


Posts: 231
Joined: 10/22/2005
From: South Dakota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

I am a lawyer, and I have not taken any domestic cases ---- but I may soon take one destined for trial where one spouse is being deceitful about his/her income, finances, and role in the family. So, although I may not be able to prove how much money the person has hidden away, I might be able to prove that in general, he/she is not particularly "honest" & "trustworthy" --- the goal being to get a higher than normal monetary award for the more honest spouse in the divorce.


If your client has a penis, bend him over and tell him to spread his cheeks... the court will do the rest. Normally lube is not used.

Right, wrong or indifferent the courts have a bias against the man in the marriage. I have gone through many court hearings and have come out scratching my head as to why I was told that I lost. My lawyer is a fantastic one and he just looks at me and shakes his head. Child support is also a huge item where they can do whatever they want regardless if the man can sustain his own life.

I find that the lawyers are normally unwilling to be reasonable on either side, but my lawyer is very reasonable and of course, my ex's isn't. It is a court hearing for this or that that could be settled with a phone call and a written agreement between us... but they won't do that. I have told my ex that her lawyer is costing her money for frivolous reasons. Her lawyer has her persuaded to pull everything into court.

I am very bitter at the court system for reasons that I refuse to trot out here for public consumption. The system is biased and regardless if the man was the one wronged the courts rarely support the man's side of things.


Gauge, I know where you are coming from. I got reamed in my divorce and then i got reamed again in the custody/child support hearing for my two middle kids, and i got reamed yet again when i went for a reduction in support due to financial issues. the two most recent reamings were in Wisconsin and the first reaming was in Illinois.
I do definately agree that unless there is blatant proof that the woman is messed up/a drug addict or something worse, t hen the courts will ream the male in the relationship. it is a said but true aspect of child custody and support in general.

(in reply to Gauge)
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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/4/2006 12:40:18 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Now there is one thing that does seem the same on both sides of the pond. If it goes to court and your are male..... as Gauge indicated, you many as well stick an open all hours sign on your arse.

Personaly I'm pretty lucky, I'm still on pretty friendly terms with my ex dispite what she did and we are sorting an amicable situation between us out of court. Legal leaches won't be getting their pound of flesh from here!

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to dincubus)
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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/4/2006 1:53:15 AM   
candystripper


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quote:

Legal leaches won't be getting their pound of flesh from here!

Raven Muse


We like to at least be credited with a rudimentary skeleton, LOL.

candystripper

(in reply to RavenMuse)
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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/4/2006 3:05:57 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
We like to at least be credited with a rudimentary skeleton, LOL.


And a very pretty skeleton it is too in your case. I know one or two legal types who are fine folks... out of work, but that doesn't change my opinion of the profession as a whole.

One or two good apples don't turn the tide against the legions of unscrupulous leeches I've seen in action out there

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to candystripper)
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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/4/2006 5:18:11 AM   
PenelopePitstop


Posts: 254
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		I'm gatecrashing this thread as the child of a nasty divorce which gave both my parents nervous breakdowns. As result of the Divorce proceedings I did not see my father for 24 years and have only recently got in contact with him now.

What i want to say is please, please don't let egos get in the way of things. What happened was my mum's solicitor urged her not to grant my dad access until maintenance was paid, and my dad's solicitor urged him not to pay maintenance until access was granted. I expect you can see the outcome here: the lawyers got paid, forgot about us, my parents suffered independently and I lost a huge chunk of my childhood.

I'm sorry but it's going to take a lot to convince me that Lawyers care what's best for anyone except themselves.

< Message edited by PenelopePitstop -- 3/4/2006 5:19:12 AM >

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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/4/2006 5:52:46 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I'm sorry but it's going to take a lot to convince me that Lawyers care what's best for anyone except themselves.

PenelopePitStop


i am truely sorry for what your family experienced. The judge should have seen what was happening and put a stop to it, so there's another legal-type who let you down. i have heard similiar stories before, and it does not suit me or my friends, but i know we are not the apparent majority of lawyers who seem in it for filthy lucre only.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 3/4/2006 5:54:33 AM >

(in reply to PenelopePitstop)
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RE: Nasty Divorce -- Your Experience - 3/4/2006 6:44:16 AM   
krys


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		My advice - stay out of the case. Family law is complicated. You can really screw up someone's life by not knowing what the hell you are doing. Let me put it in perspective.

"Im a doctor. I haven't actually performed surgery yet, but I am going to perform a heart transplant. Can anyone on this BDSM board provide me with advice?"

And candystripper - are you really willing to risk your license to provide legal advice and direction to someone you met on an internet BDSM board? What are you thinking?!?!?

< Message edited by krys -- 3/4/2006 6:45:01 AM >

_____________________________

Krys

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