Feminism

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SomethingCatchy -> Feminism (10/12/2009 6:32:47 PM)
What I learned and accepted was feminism seems to go against what most of the prominent 'feminist' seem to believe. I heard on NPR the other day a woman in her fifties, who teaches English somewhere up north (PA I think) talking about American football. "Women aren't supposed to like football! It's a male dominated sport while the girls are on the side lines wearing those ridiculously short skirts and flaunting their bodies." But she liked football. Her father had season tickets, and she grew up watching the Seminoles, and when her father died she inherited his season tickets. Good for her! But since she's a woman, she shouldn't like football... She even went as far as to say that she was a little ashamed of liking what she likes. My belief in feminism is equality, not stereotyping myself because of my gender. I don't like football, but that's not because I have a vagina, it's because I just don't have any interest in it. How do you view feminism? How does feminism affect your D/s and 'vanilla' relationships? What do you think about the above woman's conflicted love affair with her favorite game?

MissCake -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 6:51:02 PM)
There isn't just one notion of feminism. It can be characterized by a simple belief that women are equally valuable as human beings as men are, and no one deserves to be treated better or worse simply by fact of which genitals they came with. How people will choose to express feminist sentiment will be as unique as they are. Feminists can love football. Feminists can play football. Feminists can hate football. And not all feminists are female.

DarkSteven -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 6:53:58 PM)
Hell, at The University of Colorado at Boulder, there was a woman who played. She was a kicker, and her name was Katie Hnida. I've always thought of feminism as the removal of walls. Women can hold almost any job a man can, and should get paid the same for equivalent education/experience. Socially, they can have the option of not being submissive. That doesn't mean that every woman has to be dominating, but that they have the option of so doing. Unfortunately, feminism has often been interpreted to be that women should do traditionally masculine things. Hell, if they choose to do so, more power to 'em. But let them make the choice. And if they choose to watch sports, cool. Just keep their damn paws offa the remote. [:D]

DVsFox -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 7:29:09 PM)
When feminism tells women what they can and cannot do based on solely on their gender--it's not feminism. DV's Fox

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 7:33:17 PM)
Wowser. Somewhere in the archives I have a thread called "Are you a feminist?" You can find it by the bits of my exploded head. Evidently there are many many MANY "ardent anti-feminists" in the scene, and in the western world in general. Many of them that generation of women that would be my daughters, if I had any. The same generation of people who look at me in amazement when I tell them that there were WHITE ONLY signs on drinking fountains not all that long ago. I do not even TRY to tell them about the ERA. The whole thing makes me sad.

SnowRanger -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 7:35:29 PM)
Hello A/all, I have always viewed Feminism as equal choice; equal opportunity and, conversely equal 'lumps.' In the D/s world I don't feel Feminisim really has any bearing because I know the role I have chosen. In the vanilla world I am stumped. Am I chivalrous or patronizing? Hold the door or not? Let the lady cut the line or not? I do, however, belive in equal pay for equal results. And... Equal access to the REMOTE! As for Football... she should think about the tight-ends in the tight pants! Thinkig About the Cheerleaders Myself, Mike SnowRanger

DarkSteven -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 7:40:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SnowRanger And... Equal access to the REMOTE! Disclaimer: Mike's views are not held by a majority of men. They may not be held by any male other than himself.

PeonForHer -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 7:46:17 PM)
I don't like football, but that's not because I have a vagina, it's because I just don't have any interest in it. I don't like football either - neither the sort played in North America nor the proper sort played in most of the rest of the world. This is all despite having a whanger. Like you, I'm just not interested. On the other hand, I actually like using a sewing machine sometimes, enjoy looking at flowers, and even drink imported American beer occasionally.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 7:50:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: SnowRanger And... Equal access to the REMOTE! Disclaimer: Mike's views are not held by a majority of men. They may not be held by any male other than himself. Separate televsions: problem solved! [:D]

SnowRanger -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 8:04:01 PM)
Yeilding equal access to the remote is a sacrifice I am willing to make.

DarkSteven -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 8:09:28 PM)
Sellout.

SnowRanger -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 8:15:20 PM)
<SNORT!> She'll have to beat it out of me!

ShaktiSama -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 10:02:55 PM)
I'm a feminist. Like most feminists, there are issues that interest me and those that do not. I would agree that football is an incredibly sexist spectacle and that the relationship between men and women on the field itself is incredibly degrading to women generally. However, I have been in enough D/S relationships and communities to know that when someone wants to be objectified and degraded, and is enjoying it thoroughly, you'd best not stand in her way. I'm never going to waste my time chasing people who watch football, play it, or become cheerleaders with my Hammer of Political Correctness. Like Goreans, they can do whatever the hell they want, so long as they don't expect to put that shit on the television at my house. I do avoid watching ALL professional sports in my own home, I would never pay for tickets, and I would never expose my daughters to a sport with cheerleaders attached to it--I would consider it abusive, and analogous to dragging your child to a strip club to watch women prostitute themselves for lapdance money.

aidan -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 10:09:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama Like Goreans, they can do whatever the hell they want, so long as they don't expect to put that shit on the television at my house. I do avoid watching ALL professional sports in my own home, I would never pay for tickets, and I would never expose my daughters to a sport with cheerleaders attached to it--I would consider it abusive, and analogous to dragging your child to a strip club to watch women prostitute themselves for lapdance money. I've just got to jack the thread for a second... I love You so damn much, Mistress. :-D Okay, back to the topic.

SomethingCatchy -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 10:20:01 PM)
Is it ever really possible to ask specific questions and get answers to those specific questions? I'm beginning to wonder... This seems to be happening in my every day life as well. Maybe instead of the H1N1 virus, people need to start freaking out about staying on topic.

DemonKia -> RE: Feminism (10/12/2009 11:39:25 PM)
Wow, okay, despite that bit of thread-domming, I'm still gonna contribute something on-topic. I believe, as a feminist, that representing feminism as meaning 'women cannot like football' seriously misrepresents what feminism is about & it's history. It was Ms. Magazine that ran articles cheering on girls getting into playing football way back in the 1970's & '80's, when I was a kid & reading it regularly. The biggest problem I encounter around 'feminism' on a regular basis is this kinda strawman thinking that postulates that 'feminism' is something that goes against everything that mainstream feminism is & has done. & usually the assertion's based on (essentially) one data point, too. Well, this one feminist said this. Or that one group of feminists said this other thing. Um. Feminism is a movement composed of millions, probably more like billions of women (& men!) all over the globe, stretching back several hundred years under different names. Women's libbers. Suffragettes. There are locally originated women's movements in virtually every country on the planet. I'd love to have an intelligent conversation about feminism, but if the premise is a null construct, it makes it tough . . . . .. . & lastly but not lacking in any snark value, that whole line of "women can't like football" sounds just as much like something that would come out of some right-wing, conservative, macho, red-neck stereotype as outta some 'feminazi' stereotype . . . . . That women (& men) are constrained by gender roles is the very province of what feminism is about undoing . .. . . seriously bewildered & shaking head

Vendaval -> RE: Feminism (10/13/2009 3:56:21 AM)
Feminism has several different forms, movements and types of ideology. Wikipedia has a good overview here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist For me liking or not liking football or other professional sports is not a major concern. My main concerns as a Dominant Woman and Feminist are with social/economic systems and equality of opportunity. (grammar edit)

Lashra -> RE: Feminism (10/13/2009 5:01:34 AM)
Feminism to me is women having choices in their lives. I can choose to like football or not. It just so happens I am lukewarm about the game. I'm not sure why that woman felt "ashamed" at liking football afterall it is just a game and does not define who a person is. I like lots of male "dominated" things like target shooting, fishing, hunting, bowling etc. and it does not make me any less feminine. In my vanilla life I am a feminist as well as in my kinky life. It is not something that I turn off/on. I believe in freedom of choice for both sexes. ~Lashra

PeonForHer -> RE: Feminism (10/13/2009 5:07:52 AM)
Reformist feminists (called suffragists in polite circles these days, Kia, tut! 'Suffragette' is diminutive and they were no milksops!), radical feminists (separatists being one form), socialist feminists, Marxist feminists, anarchofeminists, conservative feminists, ecofeminists, post-feminists . . . Lotsa them. Very, very broad church. Feminism is about enabling women to be and do what they can be and want to do - including, if they so desire, watching absurd men running about chasing a misshapen ball and dressed like Buzz Lightyear.

DarkSteven -> RE: Feminism (10/13/2009 6:21:09 AM)
OP, it seems like you may have been put out by us not specifically addressing if it's okay for women to like watching football. The answer to that one is a blindingly obvious "of course".

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