RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s

Page: << < prev 6 7 [8] 9 10 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/17/2006 8:13:30 AM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cillydom
And for those that do not seek this level of intensity to disparage it when they decry disparagement of their own level of need seems to me quite hypocritical.

Then you're completely misunderstanding what other have been saying- you view critical thinking and disagreement as disparaging.

quote:

I actually read the profiles of those that comment here and sometimes wonder at the disparity at what they say in their profiles about acceptance and their comments here.

And you seem completely incapable of actually discussing the fluff you put out and having it stand up to actual critical attention and thus attempt to find some personal lacking in those who would not simply agree and fawn over you.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to cillydom)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/17/2006 8:26:49 AM

Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

Never have I said everybody, not even in the essay did I relate it to everyone

and there have been some thoughtful comments and then many I think misguided comments and these are the ones I’m speaking about

these are personal thoughts on a type of d/s relationship that not many want nor could they maintain.

all I said was that many others may see portions that may apply to them

and I have been attacked by many here as almost being out of touch with all reality

actually I think that all here want something that is slightly out of touch with reality

but hey, a good fantasy is a hell of a lot more fun than reality

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/17/2006 11:01:21 AM

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cillydom

Then you have totally misunderstood what I’m talking about.

No, I don't think I misunderstood at all. Here are a few quotes from your essay.

If submission is surrender then she should surrender to his desires and put her desires aside.

If the dream is to be taken control of then what good is her list?

She needs him to take her wants away and fulfill her needs by using her to fulfil his desires.

The fortunate submissive may realize seventy five percent of which pleases her the other twenty five percent is the sacrifice/payment she has to make for that seventy five percent and her relationship with her dominant. Also that twenty five percent reenforces to her, her true status as her dominants submissive woman.

For the dominant to extract his desires from his submissive he cant be overly concerned with displaying respect for her.

Most dominants prefer someone with little so called “lifestyle experience” but great desire and need. He prefers to teach her himself to be the object of his desires.

She becomes an object to be used without thought, a vessel to fulfill his every desire.

The relationship I speak of is a lot of work for the dominant and not many can stay the course.

I didn't say there was no work, I said there was no risk. In this scenario it is the sub who risks all. If she cannot find fulfillment in letting go and giving herself entirely to you and finding all of her needs met entirely through serving you, then it is HER failure not yours.

And for the submissives that seek such a relationship they require a lot from their dominants. Almost constant attention, it is quite intensive. Its not a relationship most want but for us that do it is quite fulfilling.

I imagine it would be because you have made yourself the complete object of their existance. Other than you, they are a completely empty vessel you have to keep filling. For a period of time in one's life, or perhaps to gain something from the experience, I can imagine possibly doing that, but living that way? I do not see it as a healthy way to live.

You are right, it is not the kind of relationship I would want. From my experience here, reading and speaking with many "Doms" it IS the kind of relationship many "Doms" want, but far fewer subs are looking for.

And for those that do not seek this level of intensity to disparage it when they decry disparagement of their own level of need seems to me quite hypocritical.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you speaking to me or to the audience in general? You posted this essay on a public forum and included in it a lot of remarks that disparaged those who didn't live up to your standards of "submission". Then when you take some heat for those remarks you turn around and play the victim.

I actually read the profiles of those that comment here and sometimes wonder at the disparity at what they say in their profiles about acceptance and their comments here.

Again, you responded to me, but now you are speaking in general terms. Your essay, and other comments you made, expressed YOUR intolerence. I think people here are tolerant of others interests/needs/kinks, BUT generally not their intolerances. There is a BIG difference.

(in reply to cillydom)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/17/2006 11:35:31 AM

Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

Safety in a d/s relationship is primarily the dominants responsibility as he is in control.

He should do so without undue ridicule of her body, making her uncomfortable at opening herself up. This is not to say that she may not be humiliated but that personal mean spirited attacks should be avoided.

He should listen without ridicule or negative comment even if they are negative thoughts about himself.

This is where the dominant must be firm before he allows the relationship to develop so far that they both wind up getting hurt.

The dominant should have a clear idea of what he wants out of a relationship and if any particular submissive is suitable for him.

The dominant should make it perfectly clear early on in the courtship process what covenant he is willing to offer her, such as health and safety, friends and family and career.

For the relationship to work and last, the dominant must come to know and understand his submissive like no other

Before taking control of a submissive the dominant should have thought long and hard about his own insecurities and how they may affect the relationship

The dominant must realize, really realize that what ever desire he has his submissive fulfill that he is equally involved. It’s as though both were doing it. Before he has her fulfill a desire he has to be sure how he will feel about her afterward and not get in over his head. The submissive wants to feel his feelings for her wont change no matter what she does for him that he will be her rock, grounding her in security. If he cant do this then the relationship is doomed.

One of the things that will shatter a submissives faith in her dominant the fastest is to be lied to.

The dominant has to develop a way of talking to his submissive that she’ll listen to in rapt attention

quotes from the essay

It is my opinion that most of the failure of a d/s relationship must rest on the dominant.

The gist here is that the dom has the responsibility to make sure the two are compatible before it goes too far

not to brag but I have been pursued by submissives in the past that I felt that we weren’t a good fit, and gently said no

it’s not a too uncommon thing for some doms, as believe it or not till I get to know you, I’m not demanding. I treat you like a friend, and I listen to you and respect what you say, but mostly I listen and treat you as though I’m interested in what you say, because I am, and that seems to resonate with many submissives

and what do you mean by risk

and I have more to write

(in reply to TNstepsout)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/17/2006 11:54:28 AM

Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

I’m very liberal and mostly intolerant of intolerance

I hate book burners and love intellectual discourse and have not been too specific in my comments so as not to attack others directly or made no comment at all

I’m responsible for what I say and not for what others say, so sometimes I keep my own council

(in reply to TNstepsout)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/17/2006 1:41:36 PM

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

Can you point to any particular inconsistency of a major kind in the totality of what I wrote, or are you referring to minor things that may be nothing more than typos or phrasing that could have been more clearly stated

You'll have to tell me if these are major inconsistency's or minor phrasing issues. They seem to be diametrically opposed to one another, but without knowing your intent, it's not for me to judge. I can only read the words which are written.

quote:

Her dominant pushing her gives her a feeling of being needed and loved for to her why else would he push her.

...because ...

quote:

She becomes an object to be used without thought, a vessel to fulfill his every desire.

quote:

i'd rather her act naturaly with out my influencing her

Submissives aren’t robots to be programed to constantly react the same way all the time.

this work trys to reach for the ideal, i acknowledged that submissives arn't robots

i want to see whats there, not what i want to be there

You brought this issue up several times, but then wrote this..

quote:

When he finds a piece he likes and feels will make suitable material he can shape into something desirable he takes it to his shop. The piece of driftwood is examined from all angles so that he may imagine the object that lies within yearning to be set free. That is his task to shape and set free the object of his imagination that lies within. ... When all plans have been made all preparations made ready, he begins to carve out his dream. The act of creation may be painful as material is carved away, almost an act of violence against the drift wood but this is done because its necessary to set free the object he desires.

But you also wrote this..

quote:

After he understands his desires he can create a mental clone of the submissive and perform thought experiments on her prior to expecting her to actually obey. In the start of the relationship he starts leading her gently in the direction he wants her to travel, observing how she behaved the same or differently than his mental clone of her. As he gains experience with her he fine tunes his mental clone of her, bringing her clone ever closer to her reality.

The dominant decides if the woman in question is suitable and tell her no if he decides she's not right. I'm paraphrasing your words here.

If he decides she is right, then he tweaks his internal clone of the woman who she is to fit with the reality of her, compromising his ideal for the real possibility of a relationship. I can buy that. However, to say he carves out his the ideal of his imagination when in fact, the reality sits already before him doesn't cut it with me as being something which is consistent. He either deals with the real woman or tries to mold her into his fantasy. It's not both, it can't be. It's one or the other. This sounds to me as if the dominant isn't sure of what their ideal is, but they certainly are willing to compromise on what it is for the sake of the relationship and getting a real woman with whom to interact. In fact, it seems to me, the woman isn't required to compromise at all if the dominant in question is willing to change and that, Sir, is not at all what you said in your very first posting. The compromise of limits is something which you wash away with the shores of a beach, mutable, changing, so it's not really compromising on her part if, as a dominant, you don't view such limits as lines or boundaries anyway. So, I don't see where the compromise comes in as it relates to her reality. It seems that in one breath you advocate that it's the submissive who compromises more than the dominant, and in the next you put all burden of compromise on the dominant in an effort not to see the submissive as a robot. Then, I'm in a tizzy, because you take that same woman and if her need is deep, going to levels beyond the scope of most, she's a doormat. On the one hand, it's ok.. even ideal to be objectified as a doormat, but not as a robot. An object is still an object. A doormat and a robot are no different, they just assume different shapes. Both are used for a purpose and both have no need of the 'thinking' woman. Speaking of the thinking woman..

quote:

He has to make her feel secure enough that she will open her thoughts to him, holding absolutely nothing back. For this to happen he has to be constant in his demeanor, never belittling or criticizing her thoughts. She must never feel that he disapproves of her thoughts.

quote:

The submissive woman must be taught and enabled on how to rise up and take control when the thinking woman has negative thoughts about what she's doing and the relationship with the dom. She must be empowered to replace thinking woman's negative thoughts with warm fuzzy erotic feelings that more realistically reflect her submission.

quote:

Submissive woman may want to leave the crayons out and thinking woman is always putting them back in the box, submissive woman likes to sleep nude and thinking woman wants to wear pj’s. Submissive woman wants to stay up late and party, thinking woman wants to go to bed early. One can see how these differences can lead to arguments and it will take the parent to step in an make them behave, get along.

quote:

The thoughtful dominant will realize what is taking place in his submissive and act to figuratively take the place of the parent. Part of his control is dealing with this inner conflict if it is present.

Now, this threw me for a major loop. On the one hand, you encourage the battle between the 'thinking' woman and the submissive with the desire that the dominant and submissive take sides against the part of the woman who thinks. ::read.. analyzes:: . On the other hand, you take on the role of parent figure to discourage the conflict which seems to me that you would advocate the submissive woman to embrace that part of herself and learn to live with it in harmony. Yes, to me, that's a major inconsistency in philosophy.

quote:

She must be empowered to replace thinking woman’s negative thoughts with warm fuzzy erotic feelings that more realistically reflect her submission

That doesn't jive to well with this..

quote:

Next we begin to lose the sentimentalists, romantics and the fuzzy wuzzys of d/s.

quote:

If submission is surrender then she should surrender to his desires and put her desires aside.

As far as im concerned every woman is entitled to fulfill her desires no matter how strong they may be.

quote:

"It is the submissive's right to decide if they are willing to face the pain of healing, and I believe that if healing is called for and desired, it belongs within the realm of professional counseling. I would not choose to put my Dominant in that position, nor does he wish to open that emotional can of worms. " (This was cut and pasted to understand the context of what is posted next.)

What if that is what the subbie really wants, shouldn’t she be entitled to it?

This is another major inconsistency. So for many posts it was never about what the submissive 'wants'.. it was always about filling the dominants desires. The submissive is an empty vessel, they must lose their desires, etc. But then, everyone should fulfill her desires no matter how strong they may be.. and if that's what they want shouldn't they be entitled to it..

Incorrect phrasing or contradictory philosophy?

quote:

And your right I did leave out much that would have better tied it all together, but that would really have sent the pc police into a frothing fit.

You might want to rectify leaving out so much that it changes the entire idea which you are trying to share. Who cares if the PC crowd throws a frothing fit? Just be prepared to defend your ideas with coherent rebuttals.

quote:

I hate book burners and love intellectual discourse and have not been too specific in my comments so as not to attack others directly or made no comment at all

quote:

Submission is the giving up of power and free will, and with that power goes the demand for respect. Anything else is just playing at d/s.

Don't you see that by advocating one true way, your way, and saying that anyone who doesn't do it your way is just playing at D/s, that you have, in fact, directly attacked others? That, Sir, is intolerance. Don't get me wrong. I, personally, have no problem with being intolerant. If I think something is wrong, then, for me, it's wrong. If I think someone is idiotic for the way they do things, it's not going to effect them if I think so. What I do, however, is accept it's their choice just as it's my choice to do things 'wrong' as well. Because they aren't wrong for 'me'. But a spade is a spade and an attack is an attack. By buying into some PC bullshit, you whitewash your own ideas and become PC yourself. Is that what you intend?

Just some things for you to reflect upon.. and, you did ask. :)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to cillydom)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/17/2006 2:00:03 PM

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cillydom

..... and have not been too specific in my comments so as not to attack others directly or made no comment at all

I agree you been very good not to directly attack others with your comments.... of course ... you have been rather passive aggressive in your comments..... But yeah... being passive is much better is it not?

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to cillydom)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/17/2006 2:09:03 PM

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cillydom
but hey, a good fantasy is a hell of a lot more fun than reality

um NO.... I prerfer my reality to my fantasy.... I am actually not very creative... so my fantasies are rather boring! But Hell... My reality is alot of people's Fantasy, so I must be doing something right!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to cillydom)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/17/2006 2:18:48 PM

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

This thread has been so long, I have peeked in on from time to time but havent read it in its entirety, just a post or two here and there.

From the reactons I'm seeing, I'm really beginning to contemplate reading the whole dang thing to put responses in context and get the general feeling in its entirety.

Its nearly as long as a novel though, so..........I will make a comment in about 3 days *grin*

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/17/2006 6:37:12 PM

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
Hold off on the lobotomy, Catize. I don't think you want him as a dom and as he's said, he's just speaking for himself.

Good point! I called the surgeon and cancelled.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to JohnWarren)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 7:14:34 AM

Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

What’s love got to do with it. A submissive woman finds the dominant of her dreams, he can flog with the best, administering all the delicious pain she craves. Then one day it’s gone, over, no more pain just soft girly whacks. Could it be that he’s fallen in love with her? Yes! Evolution has imparted in us a capacity for love. Love was necessary to keep the family together and keep the male faithful to his mate so she could raise their off spring. Love had to serve the dual role of nurturing and protection. Flogging your mate is counter to this instinctive love. Before falling in love with her, he may not have instinctively thought of her as the mother of his children and flogging her was not counter to his familial responsibilities. It’s easier to mistreat the others than ones own kin, and now he sees her through the eyes of kinship. This instinctive urge to protect won’t allow him to hurt. Thus love has made him a totally useless dominant to her. A good dominant has a slightly abnormal love relationship with his submissive that allows him to be hurtful to her and still love her, thus love hurting her. The responsible dominant has the ability to keep these abnormal feelings under control so as not to go too far and thus really damaging her. This balancing act of love and hurt makes good dominants rare. It is much easier to be submissive than a truly good dominant. As he is the one in control of her he first has to be in control of himself. If not in control he may go too far with disastrous consequences. A submissive that enjoys heavy play should be aware of this when seeking a dominant and the consequences a dominants love could have either way. She may be placing her fate in the hands of someone that may loose control.
A mildly sadistic man can be fun, a madly sadistic man may be fatal.

(in reply to cillydom)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 7:32:08 AM

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

it's is interesting... that you claim to have desire to have and enjoy intellectual discourse...

But, when BitaTruble... takes the effort to show you how inconsistent you are in our thoughts... you choose not to respond to her and engage into a discussion on a question that you yourself asked!.... Instead you choose to continue with your agenda... which is clearly showing the only intellectual discourse your interested in is the waves of fans spouting accolades to yours posts.....

*** gets a higher and strong soap box for cilly **** the other one was starting to get rather worn and unsafe.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to cillydom)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 7:50:14 AM

Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline

Wow, eight pages of a man stating what works for him and what he is looking for, and almost everyone else trying to trip him up, knock him down and demean him. How petty are the people that can't just say "Eh, it doesn't work for me but, whatever floats your boat, buddy." and walking away. Do people really need to demean and debase someone so that they can feel better about themselves?

It seems so.

Nice way to start off on the boards though. Salue!!

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to cillydom)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 9:13:26 AM

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

While not singling out anyone, I've so often found "I like intellectual debate" generally translates as "I like to win intellectual debates."

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 9:27:52 AM

Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

The theme is consistent to a certain style of d/s that not all subscribe to

some don’t seem to realize that I’m dealing with a very inconstant subject, namely human sexuality and desires.

the points I make in each section are consistent with the whole.

And as for the cheering section, it’s not a valid point unless it’s contrary?

After what human social construct is grounded in physical reality, from the money in your pocket to the silly laws we have to live by

I’ve tried to answer the most valid points , but nitpicking I find too distracting.

And which of your fantasies are any more real and valid?

Our fantasies are only as real as we make them like the money in your pocket

so if two people come together and agree to live a certain way, then their lives are real.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 9:39:30 AM

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

Wow, eight pages of a man stating what works for him and what he is looking for, and almost everyone else trying to trip him up, knock him down and demean him. How petty are the people that can't just say "Eh, it doesn't work for me but, whatever floats your boat, buddy." and walking away. Do people really need to demean and debase someone so that they can feel better about themselves?

What a man claims and what a man does are not one in the same thing. If it were truly just stating what works for him then why say things such as.. if you don't do this, you're not D/s.. or if you think that, you're not submissive or you're just jealous.. or, what you do is kinky sex but don't call it D/s?

That doesn't sound like .. 'this is what works for me'. It does sound like, this is what works for me.. and if you don't do it my way, you're wrong. That's a confrontational stance. If one doesn't expect to be called on that, then one should probably just write for oneself and not post to public forums.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 9:49:45 AM

Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

some of this was written in the wee hours of the night and maybe better phrasing could have been used

i don’t know if you can go back and edit posts but i do say it's an unfinished work

and I’ve said enough times milage may vary

someday i'll get a computer and writing and posting will be easier than using a surpluss telegraph key

ok people one more time

this appears at the bottom of almost every post

Authors disclaimer this is a personal philosophy presented to provoke comment and discourse. It is not a how to manual or a “This is the only way it should be” essay. But I dare say many will see things that pertain to them and their partners.

This is a work in progress and changes are made from time to time for clarity and continuance but the basic ideas remain constant. So if it interests you come back to find out what has been added. Rereading from the beginning is recommended as changes are made to the body of the text also. It is also in my profile in its entirety. Or I will gladly email you a copy.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 10:03:41 AM

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
That doesn't sound like .. 'this is what works for me'. It does sound like, this is what works for me.. and if you don't do it my way, you're wrong. That's a confrontational stance. If one doesn't expect to be called on that, then one should probably just write for oneself and not post to public forums.

Well, he keeps saying this is just the raw notes for a later work or that he was half asleep while he was posting it.

I just have to wonder why he has to post half finished and unedited ideas on a public board. I'd think a disk drive is a better venue for that. Once he's worked them into a coherent form, that's the time to post.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 10:33:55 AM

Posts: 332
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

I did put them out for comment but I didn’t expect some of the really negative comments

the ideas are mature though still evolving as I evolve, nothing is static

and I was encouraged a few subs

there are some who agree

there are some who don’t

there are some who partially agree

this wasn’t written for everybody though I welcome everybody to read

I really don’t mind contrary views, that’s why I’m a liberal I guess

I don’t like to talk to only people that share my views, that’s why I sometimes watch fox news

and besides it’s only cyber space and not something that can affect my reality nor my everyday life

and because the attackers don’t really know me, how can it really be a personal attack against me

I’m used to having controversial views out of the mainstream, sometimes out here it can be lonely but the view is terrific

(in reply to JohnWarren)

RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s - 3/18/2006 11:46:26 AM

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

While not singling out anyone, I've so often found "I like intellectual debate" generally translates as "I like to win intellectual debates."

I agree.... There does tend to be a competitive nature to many people and intellectual exchange is indeed seems to be a competition of being right over another.

As I said, before, some of what cilly has stated has merit... not alot but some. Of course that is merit only to the way I live and perceive things and very well could not be of any use to anyone else. As well, much i see is alot of BS... but again.... it's BS to me... some might find some value it... and that is a good thing I would think.

But, what I take exception to within the discourse that cilly is presenting is the contridiction of "This is Only My Way in his lovely disclaimer" But yet, so much of his phrasing and presentation express "This is the Way". The constant contradiction leads me to question does the disclaimer have any creditability. Instead of a the standard legal disclaimer... I just like to see the the ideas present as an individual opinion and not the constant universal phrasing that is being used. I suspect his ideas would be much more appealing and maybe even more agreeable to some. It would also of course contribute to actual productive and constructive intellectual discourse and maybe even a healthy debate or at least, exchange of viewpoints for everyone's consideration.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Page: << < prev 6 7 [8] 9 10 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: One Dominants controversial thought on d/s

Page: << < prev 6 7 [8] 9 10 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.090