RE: Climategate (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> RE: Climategate (1/29/2010 6:59:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onrdiesel/onrdiesel.htm

perhaps you should read the regulations. seems like wilbur is clueless as usual and Rich is rather overstating the case.

Ron



So nice of you, Ron, when you decide to do my homework for me.  It took me right to this;
DIESEL VEHICLES


This latest bit has made the news, but they have been running off this bullshit for a while.  It isn't just the trucks and buses. 



luckydawg -> RE: Climategate (1/30/2010 3:08:00 AM)

I glanced at Mnots link. It did not include Kerry asking for at least 4 deferments, but tried to to make apoint over him volunteering for Nam. So I pretty much ignored it. It was a biased hit piece from Mother Jones. What point was I supposed to get from it?


and how does it relate to your fake claim that Bush was a draft dodger?

He wasn't AWOL either, as the silly MJ piece claimed.

And the filming comes from the Boston Globe, and Kerry himself. He used it in campaign adds.... Screaming "Swift boat", is pathetic. And shows an inability to debate ideas, on your part.


you and mnot FEEL something about Bush based on biased and limited data. Why would I give a damn about that.

as you earlier said you make up your mind with no facts at all. You knowing all you need to know about me, while knowing nothing.



mnottertail -> RE: Climategate (1/30/2010 7:41:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onrdiesel/onrdiesel.htm

perhaps you should read the regulations. seems like wilbur is clueless as usual and Rich is rather overstating the case.

Ron



So nice of you, Ron, when you decide to do my homework for me.  It took me right to this;
DIESEL VEHICLES


This latest bit has made the news, but they have been running off this bullshit for a while.  It isn't just the trucks and buses. 



Rich, so now we find out that republican conservative George W Bush was an environmentalist as well. (LOL, I am sure he didnt give any more of a fuck for ca than anywhere else in the US) actually republican conservative Arnie...

Anyway, you have to have at least 3 off road diesels to be affected, and it appears that this regulation initially quoted has been in existance since
2008, (and this may be a recapitulation of that regulation) which says that wilbur has been caught lying once again, and that the million jobs that have been lost were due to republican administrations. Because Arnie has sat squarely on the side of this, and certainly didnt monkey wrench it.

Now, Rich I am not saying you are wholly wrong in your statements, it is a regulation after all -- and regulations, laws and statutes are inherently a thing designed to restrict some form of the populous from doing something...

But at least three offroad diesel engines? Even in bobcats thats 100k or so, and the cost to retrofit (if necessary) with particulate filters costs what? Anyone have any data on that? And large fleets of over 25k horsepower combined? Thats alot of diesel smoke particulate.

Anyway, California has had the strictest vehicle emissions standards in the US for as long as I have been alive (nearly) certainly since the late 60's, so anyone who has several million dollars worth of dirt digging equipment or a fleet of greyhounds even and didnt know that is sorta fuckin stupid anyway, right?

Ron



TheHeretic -> RE: Climategate (1/30/2010 8:34:57 AM)

I'm not going to carry the water for Wilbur's numbers, Ron.  If he wants to go repeating what he hears on the KFI afternoon drive show, that's his problem. 

Yeah.  These restrictions date back a few years, and they won't finish kicking in for a few more, but the study that gets cited every time it comes up is the same one we just learned was from a guy with a fake Phd.

Funny how you accuse me of "overstating," then turn around and act like you don't know the difference between 25 hundred horsepower and 25 thousand.  Three pieces of equipment isn't shit.  A bobcat, a backhoe and an air compressor get you there, and you still need a dump truck to drag the shit around with.  2500 horsepower gets topped on the front line of equipment I can rent at the local hardware store.  Well, that I used to be able to rent, anyway.  They are closing that end of the business.

Forget the cost of retro-fitting a new exhaust system onto the equipment (though you know that isn't going to be cheap), and let's think about what a smart old fart like yourself knows damn well is going to happen when you take a comfortable old diesel engine and suddenly increase the back pressure on the airflow.  The same thing that happens when you introduce a fat sub who smokes to some extreme breath play, maybe?



mnottertail -> RE: Climategate (1/30/2010 8:52:56 AM)

Oh bullshit, Rex. The law goes a hell of a lot farther than that. It regulates and taxes the fuck out of every piece of heavy equipment out there. We are talking about machines that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and are designed to last for decades. This is the pre-meditated murder of thousands of small businesses in my state, and it is based on a lie.


there is the overstatement, regulates and taxes the fuck out of? (overstatement in my estimation)

Right few bobcats and a lowboy and an extended cab 250 in deisel and there you are ..

173 horse power for the ford and 85 per bobcat around 375-475 for a Peterbuilt Diesel dump.

Around 300-800 for the Big John Deere farm tractors....

again, has to be in compliance by 2023 most of this, with 2010 emissions standards.

What does that cost for the exhaust fix?

http://www.arb.ca.gov/diesel/verdev/level3/level3.htm

your turn for homework, turned mine in Rich.

Hey, if anyone in CA is stupid enough to be in that business now.....knowing this was coming since the late 60's and having full knowledge of it since 2008..........Uh, FUCK 'EM, not my problem, just like has been bandied about this board for healthcare.

Ron





TheHeretic -> RE: Climategate (1/30/2010 9:52:56 AM)

If you can find somebody to play compression ratios and the width of the tracks on Russian tanks with you, Ron, have fun with that.  Do you have any idea what kind of fees the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia hits you with just on a passenger car?  Even though I have submitted the paperwork that I sold it twice now, they are still telling me I owe them $300-odd for the privilege of owning a '93 station wagon for 1 year.  I don't want to think about the bill they are going to send me for something built this century.  Yeah, they are going to tax the fuck out of them.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Climategate (1/30/2010 5:11:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'm not going to carry the water for Wilbur's numbers, Ron.  If he wants to go repeating what he hears on the KFI afternoon drive show, that's his problem. 



Cal State numbers on costs, Assemblyman's extrapolation of job losses. they arent "my numbers".

"A 2009 study by economists at California State University, Sacramento, commissioned by the California Small Business Roundtable, found that implementation costs for AB32 “could easily exceed $100 billion” and that the program would raise the cost of living by $7,857 per household each year by 2020. …

AB32 seeks to cap state-created greenhouse gases at 1990 emission levels by 2020. Logue figures AB32 will cost the state an additional 1 million jobs.”

As an advisor to a board member of a Mojave cement company, if the regulations are fully implemented that business will be gone, because there are no other companies to buy offsets from. Thats several thousand jobs that will move a few miles into Nevada.



vincentML -> RE: Climategate (1/31/2010 8:56:01 AM)

More embarassment for the IPCC. this from the Daily Telegraph:

UN climate change panel based claims on student dissertation and magazine article
The United Nations' expert panel on climate change based claims about ice disappearing from the world's mountain tops on a student's dissertation and an article in a mountaineering magazine.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7111525/UN-climate-change-panel-based-claims-on-student-dissertation-and-magazine-article.html



Sanity -> RE: Climategate (2/6/2010 6:10:58 PM)

quote:

I thought of killing myself, says climate scandal professor Phil Jones

[image]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00681/Leak385_681601a.jpg[/image]


THE scientist at the centre of the “climategate” email scandal has revealed that he was so traumatised by the global backlash against him that he contemplated suicide.


Professor Phil Jones said in an exclusive interview with The Sunday Times that he had thought about killing himself “several times”. He acknowledged similarities to Dr David Kelly, the scientist who committed suicide after being exposed as the source for a BBC report that alleged the government had “sexed up” evidence to justify the invasion of Iraq.


In emails that were hacked into and seized upon by global-warming sceptics before the Copenhagen climate summit in December, Jones appeared to call upon his colleagues to destroy scientific data rather than release it to people intent on discrediting their work monitoring climate change.



TheHeretic -> RE: Climategate (2/6/2010 6:16:45 PM)

Those whom the Gods would destroy, they first make proud.



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Climategate (2/6/2010 6:18:57 PM)

Dr David Kelly was right, Iraq didn't have any WMD and the government did stretch the truth beyond what he was comfortable with.

So what is the point of the comparison here, there is no parallel at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Those whom the Gods would destroy, they first make proud.


Aren't you monotheist? You could have just said 'pride come before a fall.'



Politesub53 -> RE: Climategate (2/6/2010 6:34:28 PM)

I think the whole problem is some on either side exagerated the claims. Governments cashed in for political reasons without asking the main question. What is really going on.

It is impossibile to deny man has had no effect on the enviroment. What is needed is to be told what is going on and how best to deal with it. Anything that isnt true just provides more delay and distraction from efforts to solve the problems.



TheHeretic -> RE: Climategate (2/6/2010 7:16:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
Aren't you monotheist?



I'm quite flexible in my metaphors, thank you.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Climategate (2/6/2010 8:48:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I think the whole problem is some on either side exagerated the claims. Governments cashed in for political reasons without asking the main question. What is really going on.

It is impossibile to deny man has had no effect on the enviroment. What is needed is to be told what is going on and how best to deal with it. Anything that isnt true just provides more delay and distraction from efforts to solve the problems.


I think you got lost in your triple negatives.



TheHeretic -> RE: Climategate (5/29/2010 6:38:11 AM)

This has been the gift that keeps on giving.

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2010/05/25/now-that-its-over-the-grey-lady-sings/



pahunkboy -> RE: Climategate (5/29/2010 9:49:36 AM)

I want someone to buy me central air.   Because I now think the globe has heated. and in the interest of my health and safety- CM should take up a collection to buy me central air.


I will make a paypal button today.    Thanks to ALL!~



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