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RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 1:42:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Aileen,I am not a prude...I have nothing against the "pussy word"....lol.
I would be a little leery of calling someone a "pussy" based on some hypothetical situation.
Knowing how one wants to react in a given situation is all well and good.....but till it actually happens....one never knows

Luckily I've never been in any kind of situation like this. I do know that there is nothing that would make me leave my children alone to fend for themselves. Nothing.

That I can agree with....hell I wouldn't even take the time to go find a gun!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Aileen1968)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 2:00:24 PM

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Aileen,I am not a prude...I have nothing against the "pussy word"....lol.
I would be a little leery of calling someone a "pussy" based on some hypothetical situation.
Knowing how one wants to react in a given situation is all well and good.....but till it actually happens....one never knows

Luckily I've never been in any kind of situation like this. I do know that there is nothing that would make me leave my children alone to fend for themselves. Nothing.

That I can agree with....hell I wouldn't even take the time to go find a gun!

Thats whats up! my bare hands will do in a pinch.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 6:35:10 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

You hadn't, actually. By your own account, your situation differed wildly from the OP. You had an entire floor between you, your kids and the bad guy. Orion was on the same floor, his own 4-year-old son's room just feet from where the bad guy was rummaging around.

Vastly different.

How many times must I tell you I am not faulting Orion for his actions...Do you think every burglary is going to have exactly the same circumstances as his?

He had a burglary

I had burglary

He had a gun

I had a gun

He used it

I did not

From the very beginning I have been trying to put a value on life more than articles in a home….NOT ON HIS OR MY FAMILY... that is why I said I understood his actions. You can’t seem to understand my alternative ways to handle a burglary are not directly related to Orion’s situation.

I have not once used vile language with you even though you use it quite liberally to me…quite without class.

I think language like that says much about your character. Perhaps it was just your temper. If so I can understand that if not you’re not worth the bandwidth for an intelligent discussion...Because you lack the intelligence part.

Butch

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 6:51:00 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Personally, I think Butch did make some impassioned arguments, and I was moved by some of them. But some of these posts went a little beyond not subscribing to the party line. When you're telling someone they shot someone without good reason, it's a pretty bold statement, and likely to be a little inflammatory.

I challenge you to show mw one post where I said he shot someone without good reason. In almost ever post, time after time I said he was brave and had no choice under the circumstances...I resent your accusations.

I talked many times about what could have happened...not to change Orion’s actions or criticize his defense of his family...BUT a way in the future the burglar could be caught without gun play that could just as easily killed and innocent in a gun battle if he had not been quick enough or as good a shot in the dark...How many of us are. I have lost respect for many people on this site for not taking the time to read all the posts before insulting me.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 6:58:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
How many times must I tell you I am not faulting Orion for his actions...Do you think every burglary is going to have exactly the same circumstances as his?

He had a burglary

Feet from both his bedroom door and that of his 4-year-old son.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I had burglary

Downstairs, while you and yours were safe upstairs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
He had a gun

I had a gun

And that would be where the similarities end on that front.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
He used it

He had to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I did not

You hid upstairs, of course you didn't use your gun.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
From the very beginning I have been trying to put a value on life more than articles in a home….

And by doing so in the manner in which you are, you basically say that so long as they only take your items, it's perfectly ok and they can come and go as they please.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
You can’t seem to understand my alternative ways to handle a burglary are not directly related to Orion’s situation.

And what you can't seem to understand is that playing coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't help. You don't know what you will do until you have to do it. Some will fight to defend their home, others will hide and hope the cops arrive in time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I have not once used vile language with you even though you use it quite liberally to me…quite without class.

Actually, the only "vile" language I used was in reference to the other poster, not you. Don't try playing the victim with me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Because you lack the intelligence part.

Funny, I was just thinking the same about you.

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 7:04:31 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Personally, I think Butch did make some impassioned arguments, and I was moved by some of them. But some of these posts went a little beyond not subscribing to the party line. When you're telling someone they shot someone without good reason, it's a pretty bold statement, and likely to be a little inflammatory.

I challenge you to show mw one post where I said he shot someone without good reason. In almost ever post, time after time I said he was brave and had no choice under the circumstances...I resent your accusations.

Post #160

quote:

He should have waited for the police to arrive, remember he moved to confront the burglar. Now if the burglar gave him no choice than that would be a different situation. It had not reached that point yet and a boy was unnecessarily shot.

Like I said, I read enough of your other posts to "get" that it doesn't really represent the point you were trying to make, but the fact remains you did say it. And once it was said, it probably had an effect on the way some posters responded to your arguments as a whole.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I talked many times about what could have happened...not to change Orion’s actions or criticize his defense of his family...BUT a way in the future the burglar could be caught without gun play that could just as easily killed and innocent in a gun battle if he had not been quick enough or as good a shot in the dark...How many of us are. I have lost respect for many people on this site for not taking the time to read all the posts before insulting me.

Reading all of your posts was the whole problem. I think sometimes you type things hastily and don't realize you said it. Like i said, I recognize that it wasn't the point you were trying to get across, but some other readers may not have studied all of your posts as a whole, and may not have realized that. That's all I'm saying.

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In the forest of the night
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(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 7:13:17 PM

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Personally, I think Butch did make some impassioned arguments, and I was moved by some of them. But some of these posts went a little beyond not subscribing to the party line. When you're telling someone they shot someone without good reason, it's a pretty bold statement, and likely to be a little inflammatory.

I challenge you to show mw one post where I said he shot someone without good reason. In almost ever post, time after time I said he was brave and had no choice under the circumstances...I resent your accusations.

I talked many times about what could have happened...not to change Orion’s actions or criticize his defense of his family...BUT a way in the future the burglar could be caught without gun play that could just as easily killed and innocent in a gun battle if he had not been quick enough or as good a shot in the dark...How many of us are. I have lost respect for many people on this site for not taking the time to read all the posts before insulting me.

Butch

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I am balancing life against things...for all you know the crook could have been your child on a dare from friends or high on drugs. Would you have liked him to gun him down then?

Things… under no circumstance are worth a life…no matter low that life is. The only important point is that the burglar may have used the gun…BUT only after he was confronted. He should have waited for the police to arrive, remember he moved to confront the burglar. Now if the burglar gave him no choice than that would be a different situation. It had not reached that point yet and a boy was unnecessarily shot.

If you can’t see that then you are the stupid one not me.

Butch

< Message edited by breatheasone -- 12/10/2009 7:18:36 PM >

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 7:14:39 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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Lets see how many times have I said it. Tthey were not to compare exactly why are you so fixated? Musicmystery asked if I had ever been in a similar situation. I understood that to mean a burglary...not one like Orion, how many are exactly alike? Every one is different but the police recommend they be handled in the same way as I posted.

But you took it wrong because you thought I was criticizing Orion’s actions, which I was not.

I am perfectly happy to admit some of my posts out of context could have been seen that way. And I would hope you would finally understand my meaning and bury the hatchets.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 7:18:00 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

I challenge you to show mw one post where I said he shot someone without good reason. In almost ever post, time after time I said he was brave and had no choice under the circumstances...I resent your accusations.

I talked many times about what could have happened...not to change Orion’s actions or criticize his defense of his family...BUT a way in the future the burglar could be caught without gun play that could just as easily killed and innocent in a gun battle if he had not been quick enough or as good a shot in the dark...How many of us are. I have lost respect for many people on this site for not taking the time to read all the posts before insulting me.

Butch

quote:kdsub,
He should have waited for the police to arrive, remember he moved to confront the burglar. Now if the burglar gave him no choice than that would be a different situation. It had not reached that point yet and a boy was unnecessarily shot.

I was quoting what the police said to do.. that is not a criticism...earlier I said I understood his actions...did you read that too or should I look it up and post it for you.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to breatheasone)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 7:20:07 PM

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I was quoting what the police said to do.. that is not a criticism...earlier I said I understood his actions...did you read that too or should I look it up and post it for you.

Butch

Not needed.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 7:41:27 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I was quoting what the police said to do.. that is not a criticism...earlier I said I understood his actions...did you read that too or should I look it up and post it for you.

Butch

Not needed.

Too late you accused me...my turn or are you afraid of the truth?

How about these from my posts.

I can't believe you don't understand my point. Hell yes it was all his fault he deserved what he got.
And Orion did a great job...a brave job protecting his family.

My fault really... that should have been the very first words I said... then all the rest later... I just thought everyone knew I felt that way… That is why I was so surprised I was attacked…But no I said something stupid… I said big man where I meant to say big deal…that is why I corrected it…but did a bad job doing it.

But in a life and death decision on the spur of the moment you could not be faulted however you reacted...again forgive my brashness.

The thread is to talk about it so in the future it may be handled differently.

I am certainly not putting the life of a burglar in front of a family.

BUT you are all right hindsight is great so I place no blame

It seems everyone thinks I disagree with his actions... dam it I don't

Now what I wanted to do was NOT criticize what happened but talk about what could have happened… There is a big difference that I must not have pointed out because of the vehemence in responses I got… And yes I lost my temper because I felt it unjust.

You know stating an opinion that life is worth more then household goods? you know also stating that if as happened the intruder tried to use the gun he was justified in shooting him...

There are more I got tired of looking. Now I am not saying I an without fault…I did say his son could have been shot in a shootout and I should not have said anything about his kids.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/10/2009 7:43:41 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to breatheasone)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 7:45:59 PM

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Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
How about these from my posts.

Too late. Your first post set the tone for how you were perceived. If you'd said any of the things you just posted in your original thread, you might have saved youself a lot of trouble.

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 7:56:06 PM

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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Tsk tsk...all of this bickering and not one kookie anti gun type to blame it on.How unseemly....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 7:56:48 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

With all the grief I am getting you must be right.
It just pisses me off people could not understand my points and insult my character knowing how I post on this site and give me the benefit of doubt.

This does not include you Panda.

How many people would take such repeated infantile attacks and yet still try to explain to them a meaning without attacking back?

Would you Panda?…Will that is over for me as well I don’t put up well with errant children.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 7:57:52 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
How about these from my posts.

Too late. Your first post set the tone for how you were perceived. If you'd said any of the things you just posted in your original thread, you might have saved youself a lot of trouble.

No it just mean you were to lazy to read the next post

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Loki45)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 7:58:18 PM

Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Tsk tsk...all of this bickering and not one kookie anti gun type to blame it on.How unseemly....

On the contrary, it seems one just raised his cowardly, uneducated head. Thanks!

_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 8:03:23 PM

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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i never "attacked" you.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 8:06:06 PM

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Joined: 9/6/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Tsk tsk...all of this bickering and not one kookie anti gun type to blame it on.How unseemly....

<--------------- anti gun type here.

From what I gather, many anti gun advocates take their stance because of petty criminals having guns in the first place - that is the key point, wanting to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals, not from responsible gun owners. Even one who abhors guns of any type, I still commend Orion for being able to take the steps he felt was necessary to protect himself and his family. Unfortunately the rsult was another person was shot in the process. Even if I was a responsible gun owner and I was in Orion's situation, the sad fact is I don't think I would have had the cajones to do do what Orion felt he had to do - in a way that is pretty damn sad.

_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 8:18:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

the sad fact is I don't think I would have had the cajones to do do what Orion felt he had to do - in a way that is pretty damn sad.

Well, I don't think you can really know for sure how you would react in a situation like that, until you've actually been in one. But I do know this, for absolutely certain. If you ever do find yourself in a situation like that, without a gun, and you discover that you were wrong, you're shit out of luck.

K.

(in reply to Wolf2Bear)

RE: Defended my home - 12/10/2009 8:20:41 PM

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Tsk tsk...all of this bickering and not one kookie anti gun type to blame it on.How unseemly....

On the contrary, it seems one just raised his cowardly, uneducated head. Thanks!

Of course that still does not excuse the unseemly behavior preceding my cowardly uneducated arrival

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Loki45)

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